Malik Brown Leaving Vols

[wfschrec]

Why does it matter? If they bring him in and he contributes, will you care then? Sweating that is silly.

Just gives people a reason to dislike him ...

 

[jvbj01]

Just gives people a reason to dislike him ...

Seriously? That is a reason to not like the kid? If so, somebody should look in the mirror. I know that nobody would like me if the same standards applied. I have done a lot worse that say "the university of Syracuse".

 

[wfschrec]

Seriously? That is a reason to not like the kid? If so, somebody should look in the mirror. I know that nobody would like me if the same standards applied. I have done a lot worse that say "the university of Syracuse".

I've strongly advocated that he be given a second chance ... my posting history will back that up ... if the staff wants him. I support the staff and if they feel he is a good addition bring him in ... others won't see past the flip incident ..

 

[nzm136]

Why does it matter? If they bring him in and he contributes, will you care then? Sweating that is silly.

Well if the coaches say no (aka the premise upon which my statement was based), they the didn't "bring him in." That matters because then he would have to go through normal admissions and knowing basic names is a requirement for every major university (including Syracuse) not named the University of Mississippi ('Ole Miss) and the University of Louisville.

 

[nzm136]

Do you know how many kids have called it the University of Syracuse ... are you saying they are all stupid? Bnoro's point is pretty clear to me ... he isn't saying he committed to SU he is saying that kids say that in an open ended sense to build up what little drama there is with regards to their selection, I'm still trying to figure out all these red flags you've pinned on an 18 year old kid (who while wasn't handling his recruitment in the most optimal fashion has handled it better than some of the recent horror stories). He has no criminal history ... he made a bad college decision ... that is it. Of course the fact he was lied to by our formed head coach is OK too right, no red flags there? Lets stop flogging him and let the staff make the decision.

A depressingly large number of kids have said U of S as opposed to SU and many of them are pretty dumb. I cringe every time. However the statement, though true, was somewhat light-hearted. And no, he wasn't building up drama no matter how badly either you or Bnoro apparently wish that was the case. Watch the press conference before you post blindly.

Injuries aren't a red flag in your book? And only sticking with an organization for 9 months isn't a red flag in your book? Seriously? What is a red flag in your book? Have you ever hired anyone ever? Based on your apparent inability to spot those glaringly obvious problems, I'm actually not sure if you understand the concept of red flags, but to make sure that we're all on the same page, red flags are issues that cause concern. In other words, there *may* be a problem, not there is definitely a problem. He *may* be able to explain everything away, but I would be interested to hear why the injuries and his departure from UT aren't a big deal. If you still can't figure out what the red flags are, I have a "University of Syracuse" shirt for you to proudly wear...

And if you read my comments, you will notice that I said that he should be fairly evaluated from ground zero by the coaches, so your last point is an uninspired straw man argument.

 

[nzm136]

I get your point. But you are calling a kid stupid because of three words he said one time.

"The University of Syracuse" is four words, just like "I am a Hoya" and "I am a Mountaineer." But, to answer your question, "go Penn Sate" is only three words, so yes, 3-4 words (depending on your counting abilities) is enough to judge someone's intelligence. Heck "go UConn" is only 2 words...

Seriously though, I didn't make a definitive statement other than a light-hearted comment that it raised a red flag (although I didn't use that exact term). This forum can settle down from defcon 1.

 

[wfschrec]

A depressingly large number of kids have said U of S as opposed to SU and many of them are pretty dumb. I cringe every time. However the statement, though true, was somewhat light-hearted. And no, he wasn't building up drama no matter how badly either you or Bnoro apparently wish that was the case. Watch the press conference before you post blindly.

Injuries aren't a red flag in your book? And only sticking with an organization for 9 months isn't a red flag in your book? Seriously? What is a red flag in your book? Have you ever hired anyone ever? Based on your apparent inability to spot those glaringly obvious problems, I'm actually not sure if you understand the concept of red flags, but to make sure that we're all on the same page, red flags are issues that cause concern. In other words, there *may* be a problem, not there is definitely a problem. He *may* be able to explain everything away, but I would be interested to hear why the injuries and his departure from UT aren't a big deal. If you still can't figure out what the red flags are, I have a "University of Syracuse" shirt for you to proudly wear...

And if you read my comments, you will notice that I said that he should be fairly evaluated from ground zero by the coaches, so your last point is an uninspired straw man argument.

Do you have an issue with Quinta Funderburk? He was Arkansas for 9 months along with anyone who has ever transferred after their freshman season ... hint .. it happens more than you think. We offered a scholarship to a DE from FL who blew out his knee last season .. OMG an injury ... look at Flemming and he is coming back not being written off ... an injury is a red flag now? A kid gets injured and is not worth looking at? Its a hand injury not a knee injury on top of it all ...

I have hired people ... I've been a recruiter for a Fortune 50 company and I know one thing ... I hire someone who can do the job ... if Brown can maintain the grades and sack a QB and stay out of trouble ... which he was never in at UT ... I bring him in. I'm beginning to think the true red flags here should be pinned on your incoherent ramblings about a kid you know nothing and I mean nothing about, other than mere message board conjecture.

And if you read any of the threads on this topic you would know two things ... 1.) UT has a ton of d lineman and recruited 7 alone last year ... 2.) They signed 37 commits last year ... 37! Guess what happens when things like that occur ... we call it attrition .. you know that stuff you deal with when you maintain a staff and have to "hire" people.

I'll be sure to wrap that University of Syracuse T-Shirt up in a nice flaming bag and leave it on your porch.

I saw his press conference ... he was nervous and it was awkward ... not hard to observe that at all. My last statement was a strawman argument? Do you even know what the hell that means ... it wasn't even an argument ... it was a suggested course of action "let the staff decide and flogging the kid". Where is the argument there?

 

[nzm136]

Do you have an issue with Quinta Funderburk? He was Arkansas for 9 months along with anyone who has ever transferred after their freshman season ... hint .. it happens more than you think. We offered a scholarship to a DE from FL who blew out his knee last season .. OMG an injury ... look at Flemming and he is coming back not being written off ... an injury is a red flag now? A kid gets injured and is not worth looking at? Its a hand injury not a knee injury on top of it all ...

I have hired people ... I've been a recruiter for a Fortune 50 company and I know one thing ... I hire someone who can do the job ... if Brown can maintain the grades and sack a QB and stay out of trouble ... which he was never in at UT ... I bring him in. I'm beginning to think the true red flags here should be pinned on your incoherent ramblings about a kid you know nothing and I mean nothing about, other than mere message board conjecture.

And if you read any of the threads on this topic you would know two things ... 1.) UT has a ton of d lineman and recruited 7 alone last year ... 2.) They signed 37 commits last year ... 37! Guess what happens when things like that occur ... we call it attrition .. you know that stuff you deal with when you maintain a staff and have to "hire" people.

I'll be sure to wrap that University of Syracuse T-Shirt up in a nice flaming bag and leave it on your porch.

I saw his press conference ... he was nervous and it was awkward ... not hard to observe that at all. My last statement was a strawman argument? Do you even know what the hell that means ... it wasn't even an argument ... it was a suggested course of action "let the staff decide and flogging the kid". Where is the argument there?

Your first paragraph clearly illustrates that you don't grasp the concept of a red flag. Red flags don't mean that a person *can't* perform or that they *won't* perform. They simply mean that an issue is increasing the probability that they won't perform. But, to answer your question, those were concerns of mine to varying degrees.

Your second paragraph clearly illustrates that you are bad at what you do. If you're hiring candidates that have jumped from job to job throughout their career and you don't care why they've been moving, then you're doing it wrong. But to respond to your point in the third paragraph, you're right that attrition normally occurs. However, the weakest are usually the ones that leave. That's the red flag. Why did he leave? Why wasn't it the guy next to him? Those are questions that would need to be asked and answered.

As for my t-shirt offer, if you're going to use the shirt to commit arson, I won't give it to you. I'll let you advertise your special nature on your own.

And your last statement was made as an attempted alternative to something that you're pretending that I suggested. That would be what an argument is. It suggested that my stance was something that no sane person would agree to. That would be the straw man part. You implicitly invented a softball argument which you implicitly attributed to me, and then knocked it down by making a close to universally-accepted statement that nobody disagreed with.

 

[TheCusian]

Your first paragraph clearly illustrates that you don't grasp the concept of a red flag. Red flags don't mean that a person *can't* perform or that they *won't* perform. They simply mean that an issue is increasing the probability that they won't perform. But, to answer your question, those were concerns of mine to varying degrees.

Your second paragraph clearly illustrates that you are bad at what you do. If you're hiring candidates that have jumped from job to job throughout their career and you don't care why they've been moving, then you're doing it wrong. But to respond to your point in the third paragraph, you're right that attrition normally occurs. However, the weakest are usually the ones that leave. That's the red flag. Why did he leave? Why wasn't it the guy next to him? Those are questions that would need to be asked and answered.

As for my t-shirt offer, if you're going to use the shirt to commit arson, I won't give it to you. I'll let you advertise your special nature on your own.

And your last statement was made as an attempted alternative to something that you're pretending that I suggested. That would be what an argument is. It suggested that my stance was something that no sane person would agree to. That would be the straw man part. You implicitly invented a softball argument which you implicitly attributed to me, and then knocked it down by making a close to universally-accepted statement that nobody disagreed with.

I assumed this whole conversation was framed as "if Shafer and company asked the questions and still wanted him, should we be happy to have him?" - since we can't ask those questions, determine intelligence, etc. And the response at this point, should be "yes" seeing this staffs track record with evaluating talent.

 

[TexanMark]

My opinion: Trust the coaches. If they want him and he wants Cuse...that is good enough for me. No sense dragging the kid through the mud for being a 17/18 year old.

 

[FAL]

My opinion: Trust the coaches. If they want him and he wants Cuse...that is good enough for me. No sense dragging the kid through the mud for being a 17/18 year old.

And that should sum it up!

Trust this:

(Apologies and thanks to Pyle for borrowing his avatar.)

 

[wfschrec]

Your first paragraph clearly illustrates that you don't grasp the concept of a red flag. Red flags don't mean that a person *can't* perform or that they *won't* perform. They simply mean that an issue is increasing the probability that they won't perform. But, to answer your question, those were concerns of mine to varying degrees.

Your second paragraph clearly illustrates that you are bad at what you do. If you're hiring candidates that have jumped from job to job throughout their career and you don't care why they've been moving, then you're doing it wrong. But to respond to your point in the third paragraph, you're right that attrition normally occurs. However, the weakest are usually the ones that leave. That's the red flag. Why did he leave? Why wasn't it the guy next to him? Those are questions that would need to be asked and answered.

As for my t-shirt offer, if you're going to use the shirt to commit arson, I won't give it to you. I'll let you advertise your special nature on your own.

And your last statement was made as an attempted alternative to something that you're pretending that I suggested. That would be what an argument is. It suggested that my stance was something that no sane person would agree to. That would be the straw man part. You implicitly invented a softball argument which you implicitly attributed to me, and then knocked it down by making a close to universally-accepted statement that nobody disagreed with.

LOL where did I say I interviewed people that go from job to job ... talk about a straw man ... I hope you aren't an attorney because you suck at this debate thing. And I know what a red flag is ... it is obvious you can't defend your initial assessment and are back tracking and that is fine ... if I came off that pompous and stupid and didn't know anything I would do the same. At no point did I "invent" an argument ... if you read either of these threads on this topic my stance has been the same before you even posted.

As for me I'm really f&*^^& good at what I do and I'll be happy to back that up with references ... as for attrition and how it impacts him if you need me to explain how D1 football works and what an injury can do to an athlete at a football factory then you need to do some reading up ... a 1 year set back in a school that regularly brings in 4 star athletes can be a career killer and one could say he is smart for bailing and seeing the writing on the wall this quickly.

Again 7 DLs were recruited last year while he sat with a hand injury ... they just signed 37 kids and in a position where there is excessive depth you can take the opportunity to go where your skills can be better leveraged and you have a shot at more PT ... not hard to figure out.

Its like leaving a job for another one with higher pay ... if you say you don't do that then you are an even bigger idiot than I though ... except for Malik it isn't about pay its about PT and increasing his chance to see the field ... and since he transfers he is forced to sit and develop another year free of charge physically in an S&C program to enhance his value ... why is this so hard to comprehend?

 

[Toga]

So - what's everyone think about Malik possibly transferring to Syracuse?

 

[wfschrec]

So - what's everyone think about Malik possibly transferring to Syracuse?

If the staff wants him ... go get him ... if not on to the next one.

 

[kcsu]

If he wants to play for the Satline warriors let him!

 

[Scooch]

I want to buy a Jump To Conclusions mat for so many people in this thread.

 

[TexanMark]

I want to buy a Jump To Conclusions mat for so many people in this thread.

Wish I came up with that idea, instead I thought you could make money selling rocks as a pet and cheesy mood rings in the 70's...

 

[JackBauer44]

This thread has been entertaining.

 

[sufandu]

In general, if a kid commits to SU, decommits from SU, goes somewhere else, and then wants to go back to SU, I have no problem taking him back so long as he helps the team. However, I think that this kid has to many red flags to make me comfortable. If I was HCSS and he wanted to play for SU again, I would re-evaluate him from ground zero, and take him if I thought that he would help. However, odds are, I would simply end up offering to let him try to walk on (provided that he could get into SU, which is a big if, given he got the name wrong when he decommitted - we are NOT the University of Syracuse) and when he inevitably said no, I would respond by wishing him the best of luck and suggesting that he try contacting either USF or one of the Michigan directionals. I'm pretty sure that EMU will take any warm body.

Have you paid attention to how many of our commits have said our name wrong? Offer him a chance to walk on? Seriously? That's like saying, "We're not really interested in you, so don't waste your time." If the coaching staff thinks he can improve the team you give him a scholarship. If not, you politely say no thank you and put him in the past. It's that simple.

 

[sufandu]

No, I'm referencing the fact that he had an injury plagued year last year and is leaving an organization after only 9 months. The injuries speak for themselves, but the leaving could mean multiply things: he may have been recruited over/ out recruited, he may have trouble fitting into an organization at the BCS level, he may lack commitment/dedication, or he may have simply realized the error of his ways. However, the majority of those range from bad to very bad.

Unless you're cool with injuries, possible attitude problems, possible commitment problems, and possible talent/work ethic problems, then there are red flags all over him that merit an investigation. Like I said in my post, I would look into it, but my guts tells me that he's not a good deal for SU.

I think you're way overstating things. Injuries don't speak for themselves when you have no clue what they actually were. We have a guy on our team that destroyed his knee last year, based on your philosophy, we should just cut him. Sean Hickey fought the injury bug prior to being very productive two years ago. Dwight Freeney had one healthy season in 4 years. The kid has had one season in college and we have no idea what his injury situation is/was. You mention him leaving an "organization" as if he's a 28 year old free agent in the NFL. He's a 19 year old college student. We don't know what he was told by Butch Jones and whether that measured up to what actually transpired over the last year. Is Quinta Funderburk a bad egg simply because he decided to leave one BCS program for another? I'm not sure where you're getting the possible attitude problem thing from. Have there been reports of him breaking team rules or feuding with teammates or coaches? It seems that the stuff that ranges from bad to very bad may be getting exaggerated in your mind.

 

[sufandu]

No. I'm actually saying that he probably isn't that bright because he got our name wrong. Who commits to a school without knowing its name? That doesn't exactly scream genius.

If you actually read my post, I clearly say that I would offer a scholarship if he helps the team. I'm just not sure that he would. So, unless he was able to convince me otherwise, instead of burning a scholarship on what I think is a losing investment, I would offer to let him enroll at SU and then try to earn a spot, just like every other student. However, that would require him getting admitted to SU, which is where being a dim bulb would come into play.

You realize he has to pass admission standards whether he's walking on or coming via scholarship, right?

 

[Finwad32]

I've stayed out of this debate, but I've loved reading the differing opinions. As it pertains to this situation, it's not an issue anymore from what I understand, the staff has no interest in Mr. Brown at this juncture. If they did, I'd root for him to come here and excel, because they dont, it's no longer an issue.

I'll say this about HCSS, I've heard him say multiple times, if these kids do not want to be here I dont want them here. That's why it doesn't surprise me that this stance is being taken in regards to Malik. I was interested to see how it played out because of Syracuse's depth, or lack thereof, but he's held true to what he's said. And I wouldn't expect anything less from him.

 

[FAL]

Malik appears to be a non-issue at this time. Time to retire this thread. He ain't comin', folks!

 

[nzm136]

I assumed this whole conversation was framed as "if Shafer and company asked the questions and still wanted him, should we be happy to have him?" - since we can't ask those questions, determine intelligence, etc. And the response at this point, should be "yes" seeing this staffs track record with evaluating talent.

I never said that we shouldn't offer him a scholarship if the coaches want him. Quite to the contrary, I said that if he wants to play for SU, we should evaluate him from ground zero and then offer him a scholarship if he helps the team, irrespective of his past flips. Now, I caveated that by saying my gut tells me that he probably doesn't help the team, so I doubt that HCSS will burn a scholarship on him. If and only if HCSS doesn't want him AND he wants to play for the Orange, then I suggested that he would have to enroll as a normal student and then walk on (this scenario is extremely unlikely). In such a case, I expressed my belief that he would have a hard time getting into SU as a student (that's where the jokes about not knowing the school's name came in). Alternatively, and far more likely, if we don't want him, we will suggest that he reach out to a smaller g5 program, like USF or a Michigan directional (if USF doesn't want him - which would be unlikely).

If HCSS is happy with him and wants him, then I want him and would be happy to have him. If HCSS doesn't want him, then neither do I. I personally don't care either way. I want what's best for the team, and that's it.

 

[Orijinal]

Honestly, how does it help Syracuse's situation for a solid prospect to NOT come here, even if said prospect had chosen another school over Syracuse in the past? What good does it do the program to hold a grudge? Let's make Malik a case in point: if the staff refuses his admission because of bygones, then they fail to bring in a good prospect, Malik is frustrated with Syracuse and Syracuse loses reputation with Malik's inner circle or whatever other prospective players he has influence on.

If Syracuse lets bygones be bygones, they gain more depth at DE and Malik REALLY gets to realize his first mistake and becomes a positive ambassador for the team. I don't there's any question that if the staff likes Malik's potential they would let a past slight hold them from taking him in.