My thoughts on this situation

[CIL]

Well these last few days have been quite the ride, haven't they? We started with a statement win against a long term opponent, found out that our alumni coach who claimed this was his dream job may be looking elsewhere, and sandwiched in between that was the perhaps the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel. Now we found out that light may be a train.

Marrone's current situation are not as simple as Marrone vs the administration or the BOT vs football. They are much more complex and I am sure it is a combination of several factors. The first and foremost is most likely pay. I don't care about cost of living factors, etc. Fact is Doug Marrone was one of the 5 worst compensated coaches last year in all of the BCS level schools.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-football-head-coach-salary-database/1715543/

This doesn't include any bonus information, but outside of two special circumstances (Flood at RU and Smith at Arkansas), he is most likely bottom 3. Ask yourself this question, if you work for 100k in Syracuse, NY and you found out that the going rate for your position was roughly twice that, would you be thrilled at the news, regardless of your cost of living? Even a 500k raise for Marrone would put him in the bottom 12. That is what I call underpaid. Fair value is roughly 2 to 2.2 million. This does not include staff salaries, which I would wager are equally as poor.

I do not have any inside information on facilities, promises of facilities, BOT decisions, etc. I am very skeptical that the BOT is anti-Marrone or anti-Gross. However, when I compare what we have to other schools with regards to facilities, we are clearly well behind in this arena. We did have a nice face lift, which certainly helped, but if you search the internet for other schools, you will find we are still a bit behind here. Northwestern just announced a 220 million dollar complex for athletics. This will include an indoor practice facility, locker and meeting rooms, as well as a new weight room (there are other athletics being tied to it is well). How much did the new renovations of the football wing cost, 3-5 million?

Lastly, when the NFL comes calling, you would have to be crazy not to even listen, especially if they are going to pay you 300 to 400 percent more than you are currently making. This isn't Nick Saban turning down a job, especially when you factor in that he already makes more than most NFL head coaches out there. It tells him that he may be one of the best 50 at his job. It's a nice compliment.

What I truly believe Marrone wants is a COMMITMENT from the school to help him do the job to the very best of his abilities. That is all any employee asks of their company. I do not believe he is looking to turn our Syracuse into Oregon east with regards to facilities, nor do I believe he wants he and his staff to be amongst the highest paid in all of the ACC. He would like to be given the tools in order to make Syracuse a highly competitive program year in and year.

Coaching is an exhausting job. I know because I did for a season at the collegiate level. It wasn't for me. It's even harder when you are constantly fighting uphill with recruits, with the fan base, with donors, etc.

Speaking of the fan base, this is one area of the program that I am not too concerned with. We have shown that we are willing to back a winner, willing to show up when marquee opponents come town, and willing to support this program. Most rational people understand that we will never have the support some land grant institution has. I think with the current buzz, the upgrade of the schedule to the ACC (even mid tier programs like NC ST, UNC, or GA Tech are much more interesting to the casual observer than Cinci or USF), and an exciting brand of football people will turn out.

The big question here is will the powers that be make a commitment to football? That includes the school, athletic department, donors, and us the fans.

 

[Scooch]

Great post.

 

[JoeCollege]

The big question here is will the powers that be make a commitment to football? That includes the school, athletic department, donors, and us the fans.

Great post all around. As to the last paragraph, quoted above, I think the fans would like to make a commitment. But we've (at least I) have felt burned in the past, and once bitten, twice shy. I thought with the recent trends and happenings that the University was beginning to make tangible commitments to football. As a fan, I am with my pal Cuseregular on this; I am wondering how much I should support a program that doesn't receive internal support of the highest caliber. I usually wait on season ticket purchases until I see my kids' activities for the Fall. If Doug Marrone bails now because of a lack of institutional commitment, that tells me all I need to know about my fall activities.

As to the rest, it's all relative. In some cases, people select under-employment (lower wages than the market could otherwise bring, for example, in order to live in a preferred area, or closer to family, etc. In Marrone's case, I always thought he'd do a rebuild and put in a good decade or so here, but the possibility of the NFL siren song would arise. Never thought so quickly. Even if he started down this path just to test the waters or make a statement, the lure of NFL cash could be too much to resist, dream job or not.

 

[dasher]

There is no doubt that the Head football coach at Syracuse should earn twice what Marrone is being paid. Penny wise, pound foolish. Same as true as with a Syracuse staff.

 

[All4SU]

Post of the Year!

 

[chakka3421]

You put it in better words than me. What I learned is what I have posted - it's about being fairly compensated and fairly given the resources to compete and win consistently. One more thing I will share - he was given a bump in his current contract sometime earlier last year period but in no way comes close to his contemporaries.

Whether Marrone intended this or not, he has put the University in a box. It now cannot be seen as "giving in" to compensation & resource "demands" because they will probably think that will be seen as weak - plus who will step up to the plate to do this? Cantor is lame duck.

I thought is was short sided that Marrone said this was his dream job - gives his employer leverage to "not" pay him a competitive wage to keep him here.

 

[rrlbees]

It's not about pay. That either has or will be taken care of.

As to Northwestern, yes they made that announcement after several years of planning but they also said construction start is dependent upon fundraising (there's that dirty word again).

 

[DPCuse]

Perfect opportunity for Cantor to fix the salary issue and then exit stage left. The future chancellor won't have to make the decision and take the heat because Cantor made the deal. Happens all the time but usually it's the other way around. Bring in someone who is the bad guy, they leave and then a good guy follows with the mess behind them.

 

[javadoc]

Coaching is an exhausting job. I know because I did for a season at the collegiate level. It wasn't for me. It's even harder when you are constantly fighting uphill with recruits, with the fan base, with donors, etc.

I'll bet those guys on the hill are exhausted. They have upgraded the talent base tremendously, but it has to have been like the torment of Sisyphus. That is absolutely something that will hamper a HC search. Unless you are taking someone from D-1AA, it is probably the case that every candidate would be coming from a place with better facilities.

 

[SUfanNC]

It's not about pay. That either has or will be taken care of.

As to Northwestern, yes they made that announcement after several years of planning but they also said construction start is dependent upon fundraising (there's that dirty word again).

And it's not about fans so what does that leave?

 

[chakka3421]

It's not about pay. That either has or will be taken care of.

As to Northwestern, yes they made that announcement after several years of planning but they also said construction start is dependent upon fundraising (there's that dirty word again).

I respectfully disagree from what I know - Marrone respects people that offer fair pay for the work that he does. You can't make these statements without backing it up with facts like CIL provided. How much he gets paid must be reported when the year end financials and IRS info is submitted for non profits - why the secret and what's the truth?

 

[CIL]

It's not about pay. That either has or will be taken care of.

As to Northwestern, yes they made that announcement after several years of planning but they also said construction start is dependent upon fundraising (there's that dirty word again).

It was proposed over 2 years ago and the BOT approved it in September. Bees, I get that facilties just don't pop up out of nowhere. These things absolutely need to be paid for. It was an example of a similar school, private in nature, that has indeed made a significant upgrade in their athletic facilties.

Pay will most certainly get taken care of. I am not denying that. But the number I heard is still below market value.

 

[rrlbees]

I respectfully disagree from what I know - Marrone respects people that offer fair pay for the work that he does. You can't make these statements without backing it up with facts like CIL provided. How much he gets paid must be reported when the year end financials and IRS info is submitted for non profits - why the secret and what's the truth?

The facts that CIL provided on salary are correct. But that is an old number. Pay is not the issue for what is happening now. It has, or will be, taken care of and will not bw what is in that database.

 

[OrangeMojo]

It was proposed over 2 years ago and the BOT approved it in September. Bees, I get that facilties just don't pop up out of nowhere. These things absolutely need to be paid for. It was an example of a similar school, private in nature, that has indeed made a significant upgrade in their athletic facilties.

Pay will most certainly get taken care of. I am not denying that. But the number I heard is still below market value.

well - if the pay is still below market value, then it's not "getting taken care of". With the successful run to end the season and the emerging details about the financials of the new ACC deals in the works, the school has the perfect opportunity and cover to upgrade the staff's pay to be in line with the rest of the conference. If they're worried about sending the wrong message to JB - then give him a well deserved raise as well. Don't miss this opportunity to build stability and potential excellence into your most valuable program over what amounts to small potatoes :bang:

 

[rrlbees]

It was proposed over 2 years ago and the BOT approved it in September. Bees, I get that facilties just don't pop up out of nowhere. These things absolutely need to be paid for. It was an example of a similar school, private in nature, that has indeed made a significant upgrade in their athletic facilties.

Pay will most certainly get taken care of. I am not denying that. But the number I heard is still below market value.

I agree with that. Facilities must be paid for. It depends upon who pays for it though. Every example that has been shown in any number of threads however is that donors made for most if not all of them. Like others have said, we have to be more creative since we don't have sugar daddy's jumping at the opportunity.

 

[oldpinepoint]

SU is not known for doing anything in a quick and efficient way. More committees and sub committees to do such simple tasks.

What I would like to see is a grand vision or plan for an across the board athletic overhaul. Say this is the plan, this is what is will look like, now we need to fundraise for it. Build it in stages, based on donation levels. Want to see 3, 5 and 10 and 20 year plans. I have no doubt there is one, but put it to drawing and get alumni excited about it. Post it, online, make a 3D drawing and stick it in the dome.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I agree with that. Facilities must be paid for. It depends upon who pays for it though. Every example that has been shown in any number of threads however is that donors made for most if not all of them. Like others have said, we have to be more creative since we don't have sugar daddy's jumping at the opportunity.

I would start with putting in spare change cans at the concessions.

 

[chakka3421]

The facts that CIL provided on salary are correct. But that is an old number. Pay is not the issue for what is happening now. It has, or will be, taken care of and will not bw what is in that database.

Ok I have no info to prove otherwise if this is or will be fixed shortly. We are at a standstill here so I will back off unless I am told otherwise.

 

[rrlbees]

Ok I have no info to prove otherwise if this is or will be fixed shortly. We are at a standstill here so I will back off unless I am told otherwise.

No need to back off anything.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Curious, If Marrone is going to bat for his staff here to a certain extent as well, if it has become clear to him that he can't keep the staff in place, etc etc. I know people are saying it isn't about money, maybe its not for Marrone but for staff, I would iamgine Hackett is looking for a bump, etc. Just shotting from the hip here, but as Bees said it isn't about money so I will go with that.. Will be interesting how it plays our, what makes losing a guy tothe NFL so tough is the timing for sure. In addition if Marrone is 2nd or 3rd choice I could see a Schiano type scenario playing out which will be tough

 

[Lrschill24]

It was proposed over 2 years ago and the BOT approved it in September. Bees, I get that facilties just don't pop up out of nowhere. These things absolutely need to be paid for. It was an example of a similar school, private in nature, that has indeed made a significant upgrade in their athletic facilties.

Pay will most certainly get taken care of. I am not denying that. But the number I heard is still below market value.

One Major Difference between Syracuse and Northwestern, Northwestern has the 9th largest endowment of all US colleges/universities at $7.19 Billion dollars while Syracuse's is at $940 million (http://treasurer.syr.edu/Treasurer/display.cfm?content_ID=#(8I, ).

 

[billsin01]

I agree with that. Facilities must be paid for. It depends upon who pays for it though. Every example that has been shown in any number of threads however is that donors made for most if not all of them. Like others have said, we have to be more creative since we don't have sugar daddy's jumping at the opportunity.

Why can't a university pay for it's own facilities, to some extent, and invest in it's own program, particularly if football is as important as it appears to be with absurd TV contracts? Not being snarky, just wondering aloud. If SU can't get private donors, they either have to cop to it and say they simply can't do it and let the chips fall where they may (of course they don't have to say that publicly) or they have to change the way they do things. I have no idea how all of this works but I do certainly feel like if they need to do a massive overhaul of facilities it would be better to get together, work out a plan in phases of what needs to be done, announce a specific fund-raising initiative and, in the meantime, try to find money elsewhere.

 

[OburgOrange]

Well these last few days have been quite the ride, haven't they? We started with a statement win against a long term opponent, found out that our alumni coach who claimed this was his dream job may be looking elsewhere, and sandwiched in between that was the perhaps the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel. Now we found out that light may be a train.

Marrone's current situation are not as simple as Marrone vs the administration or the BOT vs football. They are much more complex and I am sure it is a combination of several factors. The first and foremost is most likely pay. I don't care about cost of living factors, etc. Fact is Doug Marrone was one of the 5 worst compensated coaches last year in all of the BCS level schools.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-football-head-coach-salary-database/1715543/

This doesn't include any bonus information, but outside of two special circumstances (Flood at RU and Smith at Arkansas), he is most likely bottom 3. Ask yourself this question, if you work for 100k in Syracuse, NY and you found out that the going rate for your position was roughly twice that, would you be thrilled at the news, regardless of your cost of living? Even a 500k raise for Marrone would put him in the bottom 12. That is what I call underpaid. Fair value is roughly 2 to 2.2 million. This does not include staff salaries, which I would wager are equally as poor.

I do not have any inside information on facilities, promises of facilities, BOT decisions, etc. I am very skeptical that the BOT is anti-Marrone or anti-Gross. However, when I compare what we have to other schools with regards to facilities, we are clearly well behind in this arena. We did have a nice face lift, which certainly helped, but if you search the internet for other schools, you will find we are still a bit behind here. Northwestern just announced a 220 million dollar complex for athletics. This will include an indoor practice facility, locker and meeting rooms, as well as a new weight room (there are other athletics being tied to it is well). How much did the new renovations of the football wing cost, 3-5 million?

Lastly, when the NFL comes calling, you would have to be crazy not to even listen, especially if they are going to pay you 300 to 400 percent more than you are currently making. This isn't Nick Saban turning down a job, especially when you factor in that he already makes more than most NFL head coaches out there. It tells him that he may be one of the best 50 at his job. It's a nice compliment.

What I truly believe Marrone wants is a COMMITMENT from the school to help him do the job to the very best of his abilities. That is all any employee asks of their company. I do not believe he is looking to turn our Syracuse into Oregon east with regards to facilities, nor do I believe he wants he and his staff to be amongst the highest paid in all of the ACC. He would like to be given the tools in order to make Syracuse a highly competitive program year in and year.

Coaching is an exhausting job. I know because I did for a season at the collegiate level. It wasn't for me. It's even harder when you are constantly fighting uphill with recruits, with the fan base, with donors, etc.

Speaking of the fan base, this is one area of the program that I am not too concerned with. We have shown that we are willing to back a winner, willing to show up when marquee opponents come town, and willing to support this program. Most rational people understand that we will never have the support some land grant institution has. I think with the current buzz, the upgrade of the schedule to the ACC (even mid tier programs like NC ST, UNC, or GA Tech are much more interesting to the casual observer than Cinci or USF), and an exciting brand of football people will turn out.

The big question here is will the powers that be make a commitment to football? That includes the school, athletic department, donors, and us the fans.

This is a great post and says it all in a nutshell IMHO. like I stated on another thread, if we are not "All In" in football, WHAT THE H*LL are we doing in the ACC? I don't get it

 

[OburgCuse]

Curious, If Marrone is going to bat for his staff here to a certain extent as well, if it has become clear to him that he can't keep the staff in place, etc etc. I know people are saying it isn't about money, maybe its not for Marrone but for staff, I would imagine Hackett is looking for a bump, etc. Just shotting from the hip here, but as Bees said it isn't about money so I will go with that.. Will be interesting how it plays our, what makes losing a guy tothe NFL so tough is the timing for sure. In addition if Marrone is 2nd or 3rd choice I could see a Schiano type scenario playing out which will be tough

I have heard that this is definitely part of the problem going on and even though it is a huge combination of things, budget for staff is one specific aspect that hasn't been mentioned a lot amongst the facilities, nfl, marrone contract chatter.

 

[IthacaMatt]

well - if the pay is still below market value, then it's not "getting taken care of". With the successful run to end the season and the emerging details about the financials of the new ACC deals in the works, the school has the perfect opportunity and cover to upgrade the staff's pay to be in line with the rest of the conference. If they're worried about sending the wrong message to JB - then give him a well deserved raise as well. Don't miss this opportunity to build stability and potential excellence into your most valuable program over what amounts to small potatoes :bang:

There is the possibility that Marrone gets money from Nike, like JB does. JB is also among the lowest paid coaches, IIRC, but his salary is only a small part of his compensation because of Nike money, plus his camp, plus his weekly TV show.