ND AD Says D1 Breakup is Inevitable

[MaxwellCuse]

That's what I've said.What I do not want is it to be semi-pro.

Nothing semi about it. What the SEC wants is a pro league. Minor league football.

 

[CousCuse]

One scenario I heard is three big leagues at the top level of at least 60 total schools. Two of the leagues will get the most TV money. The 3rd league will receive less. The big boy leagues realize basketball can earn more than it currently does. This should bode well for Basketball Schools that also play P5 FB. In this scenario Syracuse is safely in off of basketball brand alone. I think Kansas, Duke and Louisville too.

That would men either the ACC or the Big12 is league No.3. If that's the back channel, the ACC was extremely stupid not to go after the better Big12 programs before they had time to reorganize.

 

[TexanMark]

That would men either the ACC or the Big12 is league No.3. If that's the back channel, the ACC was extremely stupid not to go after the better Big12 programs before they had time to reorganize.

More likely it is the remnants of several conferences including the ACC, Big12 and PAC12

 

[CousCuse]

More likely it is the remnants of several conferences including the ACC, Big12 and PAC12

I think the B1G will absorb the value teams from the PAC.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

So if there is a FPS (Football Pro Subdivision), FBS, and FCS and only the Top 30ish programs are going to the FPS, I think I rather be in FBS. But if 60ish are going then I want SU to go too.

With a 30 or so FPS, the ACC wouldn't go away. There still would be a decent TV contract too, It wouldn't be as much money but it would be more than enough to sustain a program. Something like what the B12 will get their next contract. These networks still need content. And we would have a chance to be competitively nationally.

I would hope though that the FBS would cut out the bottom programs who don't belong. If they made the minimum requirement 50k attendance for FPS and 25k for FBS, that would give you about 50 or so FBS teams and cut out the bottom 40 or so. IMO 134 teams is too many in a sport dominated by funding. Let the top 25-30% go FPS, the bottom 25-30% go down to FCS, and let the middle 40-50% be FBS.


Likely FBS ACC IMO:

BC, SU, Pitt, Notre Dame, Wake, NC State, UNC, Duke, UVA, GA Tech

Not a bad 10 team league.

The question here is what does the B1G do? Does it keep an FBS league for the schools like Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Maryland, Rutgers? Then they would need to add 3 more schools to get to Ten. Which would likely come from Kansas, Notre Dame, Pitt, SU, BC, UVA, UNC, Duke, or Vandy. So the ACC might have to back fill from Vandy, UConn, Temple, Cincy, UCF, or USF.

I could see FPS being a 5 team ACC, a 5 team B12, a 5 team P12, a 10 team B1G (2 divisions), and a 15 team SEC (3 divisions). That gives you 40 teams.

Then you can have an FBS made up of a 10 team ACC, B12, P12, B1G, and AAC. That gives you 50 teams.

The remaining 44 schools go down to FCS, or even create a 4th division and pull up the best FCS schools. So an FCS-A and an FCS-AA. Maybe 8 conferences of 10 in FCS-A (80 teams), and in FCS-AA 10 conferences of 10 (100 teams). Which means 2 schools need to drop down to D2.

It would be nice for this all to finally end. Just make a decision already with what makes up D1 football, and let the conferences make up their mind already about the makeup. Can't wait for conference expansion to be done.

 

[WoadBlue]

That would men either the ACC or the Big12 is league No.3. If that's the back channel, the ACC was extremely stupid not to go after the better Big12 programs before they had time to reorganize.

The questions would be: which Big 12 members are worth the most to the ACC considering distance, and would ESPN pay for that expansion?

Only schools like ND and Texas can be 'islands' a large distance from the main conference (and in the ACC, IN borders KY, which borders VA, which means that ND is in a contiguous state). So if the ACC added to get into the extremely valuable state of TX, we'd need to add at least 2 schools there and perhaps 4 total in the area (say, Baylor, TCU, TTU, and Ok St - which has a billionaire booster whop would pay big time to get Ok St into a better conference) in order to make an presence in TX. But I doubt that ESPN would cough up a nice raise for all of us now and pay 4 Big 12 guys as well.

As strange as it may sound to many, WVU and TTU will now be tied for 2nd largest stadium in the Big 12 (a bit behind Iowa St), and WVU has the most passionate football fan base of those 3. WVU also has meaningful history with Pitt, VT, and Syracuse, and history with Miami and BC and a bit of history with Louisville. WVU fans would travel to the extremes of Boston and Miami better than any ACC school. WVU fans would make certain that any games at UVA, UNC, NCSU, and Louisville would sell out or come very close to doing so. If WVU were to make the ACC Championship, you could count on at least 35K WVU fans itching to travel to Charlotte.

Cincinnati would be valuable because location, location, location! OH is 5th in the nation (behind FL, TX, CA, and GA) in producing D1 football players, and Cincinnati is OH's #2 state school and its #2 football program. Cincy has very valuable things that WVU lacks: a large local TV market, a very large state, a state loaded with major conference talent.

 

[TampaLaker]

What is weird is that Greg comes across a really good guy. Know him from Skaneateles. Oh well let them have their pro league. We can get back to doing pranks with Colgate

Greg IS a good guy. Have known him since junior high (not well). Know his wife REALLY well. Her dad was our pastor in Skaneateles for almost 10 years. And people in Syracuse have been pretty ugly to Greg.

So those who hate on Greg, do you think he is doing his job, which is to run the SEC sports to the benefit of the member schools, well? Seems like a whole lot of people on here complain about the former ACC commissioner for not protecting all the schools. In comparison, would you rather him or Greg, the SU grad and local "kid" who sure seems to be doing a pretty good job at what he was hired to do?

In addition, he CANNOT stop boosters from buying players. How do you think he is going to do that? Previously he would have had to prove that they were doing things that were against the rules and now, they are using the loopholes in the NIL rules. Bees has said that SU is trying to get a collective going; should SU be called cheaters for using the same loopholes as the SEC (and I would guess most people down here recognize that SEC is not nearly as pristine as Skaneateles Lake).

 

[CousCuse]

The questions would be: which Big 12 members are worth the most to the ACC considering distance, and would ESPN pay for that expansion?

Only schools like ND and Texas can be 'islands' a large distance from the main conference (and in the ACC, IN borders KY, which borders VA, which means that ND is in a contiguous state). So if the ACC added to get into the extremely valuable state of TX, we'd need to add at least 2 schools there and perhaps 4 total in the area (say, Baylor, TCU, TTU, and Ok St - which has a billionaire booster whop would pay big time to get Ok St into a better conference) in order to make an presence in TX. But I doubt that ESPN would cough up a nice raise for all of us now and pay 4 Big 12 guys as well.

As strange as it may sound to many, WVU and TTU will now be tied for 2nd largest stadium in the Big 12 (a bit behind Iowa St), and WVU has the most passionate football fan base of those 3. WVU also has meaningful history with Pitt, VT, and Syracuse, and history with Miami and BC and a bit of history with Louisville. WVU fans would travel to the extremes of Boston and Miami better than any ACC school. WVU fans would make certain that any games at UVA, UNC, NCSU, and Louisville would sell out or come very close to doing so. If WVU were to make the ACC Championship, you could count on at least 35K WVU fans itching to travel to Charlotte.

Cincinnati would be valuable because location, location, location! OH is 5th in the nation (behind FL, TX, CA, and GA) in producing D1 football players, and Cincinnati is OH's #2 state school and its #2 football program. Cincy has very valuable things that WVU lacks: a large local TV market, a very large state, a state loaded with major conference talent.

The ACC could form an alliance with the Big12, that would make sense. The B12 isn't an ESPN property though but neither were the PAC and the B1G.

 

[All4SU]

The ACC could form an alliance with the Big12, that would make sense. The B12 isn't an ESPN property though but neither were the PAC and the B1G.

I thought we already had an alliance with the B1G and the PAC.

 

[WoadBlue]

The ACC could form an alliance with the Big12, that would make sense. The B12 isn't an ESPN property though but neither were the PAC and the B1G.

The problem with that is ESPN. With Texas and A&M in the SEC, and OU, Arkansas, and LSU (border state schools of TX with a large number of passionate fans living in TX) all in the SEC, ESPN has 0 need to add any other TX school to ESPN in order to cover that state.

But assuming that the BT will be 100% off ESPN, ESPN is going top want as many midwestern games as possible if the teams have anything to offer in football. Cincy would fit that bill as an ACC member. KU does not because its football sucks, and its football fan base sucks at least as much as its football. There isn't enough talent or population in IA for Iowa St to matter, unless it's paired with Iowa or Nebraska or perhaps Missouri.

 

[CousCuse]

I thought we already had an alliance with the B1G and the PAC.

That didn't pan out and is now scuttled, I believe.

 

[Madbiker]

The big state school athletic factories that spend big on NIL ( with their boosters wink wink) will eventually leave their P5 conferences and form a super conference. They will make most of the TV money. The other schools that can't meet this spending for players( which SU is in this group) will re-align and form new conferences. These schools will make a LOT LESS $ than they currently do. This was so predictable with the advent of NIL which is just legalized pay for play with the schools "technically" not involved with the bribery--LOL. Look at this kid on Miami who wants an $800k NIL guarantee to stay or he will hit the transfer portal. It's gotten totally ridiculous.

 

[WoadBlue]

I thought we already had an alliance with the B1G and the PAC.

The BT is never going to follow through with anything that matters. And the ACC and Pac cooperating is only going to help us if somebody pays us big money for doing so. That can only work if the Pac signs with ESPN because ESPN wants to pair us a good deal to bridge across the nation.

But if ESPN prefers to keep the ACC deal way below what it should be based on total TV viewers for both revenue sports, then it will cheat us forever no matter what scheduling alliance we might have.

 

[CousCuse]

But if ESPN prefers to keep the ACC deal way below what it should be based on total TV viewers for both revenue sports, then it will cheat us forever no matter what scheduling alliance we might have.

Isn't it the agreement that ESPN would have to change the payout if new team(s) were added?

 

[Orangefizz]

I wonder if the Ivy League will use this opportunity to expand its membership to include elite academic schools like Duke, Vanderbilt, and Northwestern.

 

[TheCusian]

Greg IS a good guy. Have known him since junior high (not well). Know his wife REALLY well. Her dad was our pastor in Skaneateles for almost 10 years. And people in Syracuse have been pretty ugly to Greg.

So those who hate on Greg, do you think he is doing his job, which is to run the SEC sports to the benefit of the member schools, well? Seems like a whole lot of people on here complain about the former ACC commissioner for not protecting all the schools. In comparison, would you rather him or Greg, the SU grad and local "kid" who sure seems to be doing a pretty good job at what he was hired to do?

In addition, he CANNOT stop boosters from buying players. How do you think he is going to do that? Previously he would have had to prove that they were doing things that were against the rules and now, they are using the loopholes in the NIL rules. Bees has said that SU is trying to get a collective going; should SU be called cheaters for using the same loopholes as the SEC (and I would guess most people down here recognize that SEC is not nearly as pristine as Skaneateles Lake).

This is 100% indicative of the problem.

I believe he’s a good guy (though some of the poaching of TX and OK while negotiating a new playoff deal are a wee bit slimy) and has done a fabulous job representing the schools interests. The guy who runs the NCAA is doing exactly what the schools presidents want him to do and might be a nice guy.

The problem is that *no one* has been doing what’s in the sports best interests and the players certainly haven’t been looked after in a equitable way (as the Supreme Court was alluding to).

Hats off to him for representing the SEC schools interests so well that it‘s hurt everyone else and the viability of the sport, I guess

 

[TheCusian]

 

[rrlbees]

Don’t take the “job” then.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

That is a ridiculous statement. Enough with the extremist slave labor comments, it just polarizing the issue. You can be pro player compensation without that. That guy should be ashamed.

That being said, the Jeremy Bloom issue should have been the start of change. The NCAA should have came up with a system back then for NIL. Instead they were greedy and had their hand forced, leading to today's chaos.

 

[CousCuse]

Ever since athletes received free tuition, they have been getting paid to play. The current NIL issue is just increasing that. It's nothing new.

 

[Hoo's That]

I wonder if the Ivy League will use this opportunity to expand its membership to include elite academic schools like Duke, Vanderbilt, and Northwestern.

Duke and Vandy are too far south and Northwestern is too far west. If (and notice it's a big "if") the Ivy was to expand, Colgate and Johns Hopkins would be the likeliest candidates IMO. Hopkins supposedly has plans and money in place to go full D-1 if the waiver process that lets them be D-1 in lacrosse and D-3 in everything else is ever ended.

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

One terrible idea after another. #3 introduces "play for pay".

#'s 1 an 5 aren't bad. Removing scholarship limitations in LAX would probably help schools like SU. And "closed [portal] periods" ... might reduce some of the roster chaos. But 2 and 3 are disasters ... 3 is pay for play (as you posted) and 4 is a missile shot at parity. This is what happens when a membership organization is controlled by the lowest common denominator.

 

[Orangefizz]

Duke and Vandy are too far south and Northwestern is too far west. If (and notice it's a big "if") the Ivy was to expand, Colgate and Johns Hopkins would be the likeliest candidates IMO. Hopkins supposedly has plans and money in place to go full D-1 if the waiver process that lets them be D-1 in lacrosse and D-3 in everything else is ever ended.

Colgate to Ivy; don’t think so with Cornell already a member.

I could see Hopkins and Middlebury if they stayed in the northeast for expansion

 

[TheCusian]

Don’t take the “job” then.

You don’t see the conflict of interest by the ESPN guy? They make the most money off of unfairly compensated labor. He’s griping because the greed they enabled is now endangering the popularity of the sport.

Lots of blame to go around, but the people supporting players getting a cut of the very large pie finally - should be last to be blamed

 

[TheCusian]

That is a ridiculous statement. Enough with the extremist slave labor comments, it just polarizing the issue. You can be pro player compensation without that. That guy should be ashamed.

That being said, the Jeremy Bloom issue should have been the start of change. The NCAA should have came up with a system back then for NIL. Instead they were greedy and had their hand forced, leading to today's chaos.

Black market labor market isn’t that far off and I assure you he doesn’t care. I don’t always agree with him - but he knows the dark underbelly just about better than any other reporter in the business.