Newhouse question regarding writers.

[SmilinBob]

Since SU is a private school and has kids from all over, more so than a state school, my question is...would a lot of the writers that go there have more ties for the school they may have rooted for from which they live and may have rooted for all their fan lives?

Plus along those lines...no ties to the area thus they feel the need to do what ever they can to make a name for themselves? I suppose this could be asked on the other topics area but since I'm a huge football fan and this directly impacts the program I love, I felt the need to ask it here.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Since SU is a private school and has kids from all over, more so than a state school, my question is...would a lot of the writers that go there have more ties for the school they may have rooted for from which they live and may have rooted for all their fan lives?

This is college. People don't come to Syracuse and root for a different college. Well, the grand majority anyway.

Plus along those lines...no ties to the area thus they feel the need to do what ever they can to make a name for themselves?

It's the communications business. Everyone is doing whatever they can to make a name for themselves.

 

[SmilinBob]

LC...my kids have rooted for SU all their lives and one is a communication major at a major university, it's not as cut and dry as you make it.

I agree it's a business and not only that you may have a large debt as well, I understand that. I just despise the Colon Cowherd type "journalism" and the goal being to piss people off to get hits, e-mails/letters or calls.

What I also gather is the guy/gal that does a solid job, knows their stuff, doesn't get the rewards they deserve in too many cases. They don't get noticed like a guy that averages 4.2 yards a pop but never breaks the long one.

I'm just trying to learn what is being taught there as well, what behind the scenes type of thing goes on at Newhouse and how they are trying to help future grads get employment. Personally, I'd like to see some better research on topics and when "facts" are mentioned, they really are facts not an opinion. Many readers are not knowledgeable about this area and what they read they will believe a large percentage of the time.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

LC...my kids have rooted for SU all their lives and one is a communication major at a major university, it's not as cut and dry as you make it.

Of course it's not cut and dry. I'm just saying, in my two years of Newhouse, everyone I knew who cared about sports followed Syracuse sports. The rule of thumb is to thine own alma mater be true (ie. I went nuts when LMC beat SU in 2009 in hoops.) But let's just drop this point. We'll be arguing semantics all day.

I'm just trying to learn what is being taught there as well, what behind the scenes type of thing goes on at Newhouse and how they are trying to help future grads get employment. Personally, I'd like to see some better research on topics and when "facts" are mentioned, they really are facts not an opinion. Many readers are not knowledgeable about this area and what they read they will believe a large percentage of the time.

What's being taught at Newhouse?

First and foremost, good writing.

Second, compelling storytelling.

Third, synergy- working with the web and social media.

Everyone takes research classes.

The end game is to beat the fundamentals of journalism into them by the time they walk out of there.

Aside from being, you know, good journalists, Newhouse pushes internships hard to help their people land real jobs. Internships is one of the reasons Cohen got the .com job while still in college. He raised some eyebrows at the NY Times last summer.

 

[Moontan]

(ie. I went nuts when LMC beat SU in 2009 in hoops.)

You know that it was an exhibition, right?
Do you get upset when your favorite NFL team loses a pre-season game?

OK, never mind.

Cohen is a Yukon fan who can't seem to keep that bias from his Orange "reporting".
He's alienated himself from his target audience.

 

[SmilinBob]

Of course it's not cut and dry. I'm just saying, in my two years of Newhouse, everyone I knew who cared about sports followed Syracuse sports. The rule of thumb is to thine own alma mater be true (ie. I went nuts when LMC beat SU in 2009 in hoops.) But let's just drop this point. We'll be arguing semantics all day.





What's being taught at Newhouse?

First and foremost, good writing.

Second, compelling storytelling.

Third, synergy- working with the web and social media.

Everyone takes research classes.

The end game is to beat the fundamentals of journalism into them by the time they walk out of there.

Aside from being, you know, good journalists, Newhouse pushes internships hard to help their people land real jobs. Internships is one of the reasons Cohen got the .com job while still in college. He raised some eyebrows at the NY Times last summer.

Internships are... not is.

I understand your point, I really do and I appreciate what you're saying. Facts seem to be missing from what you wrote and I suppose it was meant to be along the lines of research but the true gifts of a sports writer...to me...are to see the information in front of them, keep the correct notes and convey that to the reader. Let's face it a 20K job at the Post Standard is a stepping stone job and I get that so being noticed is the goal for someone that wants a bigger pond to publish in.

Also, sometimes "A good story" and along those lines facts are changed to make a story more interesting to the reader or let's just say a little more drama is added for more bang for the buck so to speak.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Internships are... not is.

I understand your point, I really do and I appreciate what you're saying. Facts seem to be missing from what you wrote and I suppose it was meant to be along the lines of research but the true gifts of a sports writer...to me...are to see the information in front of them, keep the correct notes and convey that to the reader. Let's face it a 20K job at the Post Standard is a stepping stone job and I get that so being noticed is the goal for someone that wants a bigger pond to publish in.

Also, sometimes "A good story" and along those lines facts are changed to make a story more interesting to the reader or let's just say a little more drama is added for more bang for the buck so to speak.

I'm a terrible proof reader. Gets me all of the time.


I agree with you on what I want out of a sports reporter- someone who has eyes in the back of his/her head, has a nose for the most important stuff, gives everyone what they want to know.

The problem? That skill takes time to develop. I mean, I have a journalism background. If I was at FanFest yesterday, I would have been overwhelmed for the first 30 minutes or so before I found a rhythm. It's something that a guy a few months out of college just isn't going to have a grasp of.

Newhouse can give these guys the reporting basics. But that can only teach so much. It's about doing and doing and doing.

 

[Moontan]

Newhouse can give these guys the reporting basics. But that can only teach so much. It's about doing and doing and doing.

The PS guys may already have four Fan Fests under their belts.

If you want to be a sports reporter and are at Syracuse, I would hope that you'd at least practice by writing reports about SU's biggest events. No press credentials are needed. You would do that even if you weren't writing for the DO or submitting it as part of a paper. It's so easy these days to even publish these reports... thousands of people do it.

If these students were in town, then FanFest definitely counts as a major event... especially since most would have no other access to the football team until the season started.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Here's a unique approach: flood MC Douche's articles with web hits, therefore getting him noticed. He gets noticed and maybe some .com in a larger market hires him away. I think NJ.com would be perfect. I already ignore that website down here in the swamps of Jersey. I'll let you guys build up his web hits as I just can't stomach his drivel anymore. Hey LeMoyne guy, can you get Dome Eddie back on the Hill? I know that he used to be a custodian over at LeMoyne awhile back.

 

[Cadillac]

This is crazy but it's 100 percent true.

Knew a huge UConn fan who went to Newhouse, wore UConn crap everywhere, including to SU games.

He had a radio show where supposedly - supposedly - Auriemma called in every week. I don't know, I never listened.

Also friends with an Alabama hoops fan (!?!) at Newhouse from NYC (?!?) who despised GMac so much it must have been personal, and of course you know who we lost to in the Sweet 16 in 2004.

Plenty of people just looked at Newhouse as job training and kept their previous rooting interest alive. Lot of contrarians but maybe also because SU at the time was so good?

 

[BlackKnight76]

If say 95% of the kids I knew at SU if not more rooted for SU no matter who their allegiance was before that. I was a BIG Notre Dame and UConn fan as recently as 2008 and dropped both like a bad habit when I decided on SU. Cohen is definitely in the minority in hanging on to his old team.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

If say 95% of the kids I knew at SU if not more rooted for SU no matter who their allegiance was before that. I was a BIG Notre Dame and UConn fan as recently as 2008 and dropped both like a bad habit when I decided on SU. Cohen is definitely in the minority in hanging on to his old team.

I was going to use you as an example, but decided it was too weird.

 

[orangeinohio]

Here's a unique approach: flood MC Douche's articles with web hits, therefore getting him noticed. He gets noticed and maybe some .com in a larger market hires him away. I think NJ.com would be perfect. I already ignore that website down here in the swamps of Jersey. I'll let you guys build up his web hits as I just can't stomach his drivel anymore. Hey LeMoyne guy, can you get Dome Eddie back on the Hill? I know that he used to be a custodian over at LeMoyne awhile back.

He's the future Doug Gottlieb for football.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

He's the future Doug Gottlieb for football.

He should be so (un)lucky.

 

[OttoMets]

SU made the decision about 20 years ago to eliminate grammar from the curriculum in the writing program; the thinking was that if these kids couldn't learn the fundamentals of writing in the first 13 years of their education, their college professors wouldn't be able to get through to them, anyway. And this is a societal problem - many incoming college students are poor writers. (Many consider this an indefensible pedagogical move by SU.)

This has hurt Newhouse; similar shifts in instruction at other universities have been similarly unhelpful. The stripping down of copy desks at all newspapers (but especially at small and midsized dailies, like the Sub) has compounded the problem; we've got a lot of professional writers who can't write.

Newhouse and SC and Northwestern and Missouri (and everyone else) just aren't bringing in the same students as they did 20 or 30 years ago. No one is. Admitted students have been raised on Sportscenter and increasingly-poor journalism (where there is often no distinction between journalists and columnists, as so many here point out about the new hires at the Sub). By and large, they're less well-read than their predecessors and have not received the same quality of English education.

What little I've read from the new guys has not been impressive, but the blame doesn't end with them or with Newhouse. Society has declined and these writers haven't put in the work necessary to overcome that. And the support from their employer stinks.

 

[SmilinBob]

I'm a terrible proof reader. Gets me all of the time.


I agree with you on what I want out of a sports reporter- someone who has eyes in the back of his/her head, has a nose for the most important stuff, gives everyone what they want to know.

The problem? That skill takes time to develop. I mean, I have a journalism background. If I was at FanFest yesterday, I would have been overwhelmed for the first 30 minutes or so before I found a rhythm. It's something that a guy a few months out of college just isn't going to have a grasp of.

Newhouse can give these guys the reporting basics. But that can only teach so much. It's about doing and doing and doing.

Don't they have any work studies or do they just charge 50K and play academia? I understand you really don't know how to do a job until you have to do it and along those lines writers can't take back what they've wrote...it's out there for all to see and can't be deleted. I hope to see growth and hopefully a writer isn't arrogant enough to ignore others in the field bits of wisdom and experience. What really bothers me is that you wrote the NYT may be interested in Cohen and it can't be for his story flow. This to me is why papers and the media have gone to hell, it's not about the story it's about attention to the story and how you can manipulate the conversation and it is by far why too negative or agenda driven for my taste.
Write a good balanced article and let the reader decide.

I love this area and that's why I live here. If a writer is going to crap on the area he or she better be ready for cancellations because as you said it is a business and if Cohen continues along these lines I'll do my part and tell the paper EXACTLY why they are losing a very long time customer. I see dusty old salt mines and not the incredible area it is where we have the most beautiful lakes, mountains, wine country, 1000 Islands and even an ocean bordering the state. I'm not asking this kid to be a homer but seriously the constant negative drivel that is attached to almost everyone of the articles has already gone too far to me. I've put up with Bud and stopped ready his stuff years ago but Webb and Dave R. countered that, now it's a piss the reader off and hope for hits.