OT: 30-for-30 "Survive and Advance" & Jim Valvano

[DoctorBombay]

Apologize if this has been talked about, but I finally watched this last night and it was amazing.
The 1983 NCSU team that beat Phi Slama Jama had 10 losses, and HAD to win the ACC Tounament to even get into the Dance. They still hold the record for most losses by a NCAA champion. ( Check that- 1988 KU "Danny & the Miracles" had 11).
The most surprising part of the film was the way they showcased the coaching of Jimmy V. He was a GREAT tactical coach as well as a master motivator. I guess watching Dickie Vitale talk him up all these years, one might get the sense that he was just a showman, or that his team simply got lucky and ended up winning it all. Not the case by any means.
I was at SU during their run and remember watching the TAPE DELAY of the games out West. I used to LOVE David Thompson as a kid, and at one time NCSU might've been my favorite college team.
Check it out if you get a chance- great film.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I watched it. It was very good, but I'm not sure I came away thinking Jimmy V was a master tactician. Quite the opposite actually. He was a master motivator and a great leader for the team while he was interested. Very clear that coaching was only his thing because it was a profession that allowed him to use his social/leadership talents.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I watched it. It was very good, but I'm not sure I came away thinking Jimmy V was a master tactician. Quite the opposite actually. He was a master motivator and a great leader for the team while he was interested. Very clear that coaching was only his thing because it was a profession that allowed him to use his social/leadership talents.

Disagree, somewhat. He was of course a great motivator, but the guy didn't just throw the ball out there, give a rah-rah speech, and hope for the best. He won quite a few games at Iona w/ Jeff Ruland BEFORE going to NCState. They also pointed out several games where he made specific coaching moves that led to a win. The last second trap versus UVA in the ACC Tournament final that caused a turnover. The tactical fouls, IN A TIED GAME, that put a freshman Alvin Williams (?) on the foul line versus UH...which led to NCSU getting the ball back & eventually to Whittenberg's shot & Charles' dunk?
Jimmy V used his natural showmanship to accomplish his goals obviously, and why not? That shouldn't lessen his value whatsoever as to being a good coach.

 

[Stern]

They should have spent more time on the "violations" and his fall from grace! They downplayed that far too much

 

[IthacaBarrel]

They should have spent more time on the "violations" and his fall from grace! They downplayed that far too much

Yeah that is what they should have done.. What

 

[Stern]

Yeah that is what they should have done.. What

You can't only tell part of the story. A big part of what people know Valvano for is the violations and the cheating. I wish they went into that a bit more, they glossed over it really. His return to NC State on the 10 year reunion was a huge deal, they didn't make it as big a deal as it should have been in the documentary because they glossed over the violations

 

[CuseTroop]

You can't only tell part of the story. A big part of what people know Valvano for is the violations and the cheating. I wish they went into that a bit more, they glossed over it really. His return to NC State on the 10 year reunion was a huge deal, they didn't make it as big a deal as it should have been in the documentary because they glossed over the violations

The show wasent about NC State basketball in the 80s, or NC State basketball violations.. It was about the NC State National Championship team in 1983...

Thats like 30 for 30 doing a special on our 03 championship, and spending an hour talking about the Fine scandle.

 

[NovaOrange]

Disagree, somewhat. He was of course a great motivator, but the guy didn't just throw the ball out there, give a rah-rah speech, and hope for the best. He won quite a few games at Iona w/ Jeff Ruland BEFORE going to NCState. They also pointed out several games where he made specific coaching moves that led to a win. The last second trap versus UVA in the ACC Tournament final that caused a turnover. The tactical fouls, IN A TIED GAME, that put a freshman Alvin Williams (?) on the foul line versus UH...which led to NCSU getting the ball back & eventually to Whittenberg's shot & Charles' dunk?
Jimmy V used his natural showmanship to accomplish his goals obviously, and why not? That shouldn't lessen his value whatsoever as to being a good coach.

I think your leaving out his best coaching call during that whole season which was to run the triangle and two on UVA and big Ralph. That happened in the Conference tournament and allowed them to come back from 10 down.

 

[joct]

The part I couldn't believe, was intentionally fouling with the game tied. With no shot clock I can kind of see it at the 2-3 minute mark if the other team is stalling and you've spotted a weak FT shooter. But if I remember correctly he did it with under a minute to go against Houston in the NC, they went 1-2, which gave them the ball back down 1 for the last crazy possession...if the Houston player hits 2 FTs then you are have to score just to tie it up. Quite a roll of the dice in a tie game.

 

[Stern]

The show wasent about NC State basketball in the 80s, or NC State basketball violations.. It was about the NC State National Championship team in 1983...

Thats like 30 for 30 doing a special on our 03 championship, and spending an hour talking about the Fine scandle.

BUT, they covered Valvano's death, his foundation, and the after effects of winning the championship and how it changed him and why he got fired. My point is if you are going to bring it up, do it right and actually get into the details of that

 

[HoustonCuse]

The part I couldn't believe, was intentionally fouling with the game tied. With no shot clock I can kind of see it at the 2-3 minute mark if the other team is stalling and you've spotted a weak FT shooter. But if I remember correctly he did it with under a minute to go against Houston in the NC, they went 1-2, which gave them the ball back down 1 for the last crazy possession...if the Houston player hits 2 FTs then you are have to score just to tie it up. Quite a roll of the dice in a tie game.

This was the primary reason I came away thinking he really wasn't much of a tactician. Just because moves like that worked once, it doesn't mean they were good moves. I dunno. I don't want to get into a debate about it really, I just came away thinking that short of being a comedian or motivational speaker, coaching was a job he would be drawn to. This was further solidified in my mind by the fact that he appeared to have quickly lost interest in coaching once more opportunities to do the other things presented themselves.

 

[CuseTroop]

BUT, they covered Valvano's death, his foundation, and the after effects of winning the championship and how it changed him and why he got fired. My point is if you are going to bring it up, do it right and actually get into the details of that

But I feel like they talked about his death, his foundation and the after effects of winning the championship because all that directly effected the players on the national championship team... I feel like they brought up the violations so the players could tell us how they felt about how their coach had changed after the championship. They didnt bring it up to air dirty laundry

 

[CorduroyG]

The part I couldn't believe, was intentionally fouling with the game tied. With no shot clock I can kind of see it at the 2-3 minute mark if the other team is stalling and you've spotted a weak FT shooter. But if I remember correctly he did it with under a minute to go against Houston in the NC, they went 1-2, which gave them the ball back down 1 for the last crazy possession...if the Houston player hits 2 FTs then you are have to score just to tie it up. Quite a roll of the dice in a tie game.

agree that was a big time ballsy move to foul with game tied but houston didnt make a free throw. think it was a 1 and 1 and they missed the front end, so the game was tied which is why nc state stalled for the last shot.