Our boring style has produced two #1 seeds
- Thread starter dasher
- Start date
Fly Rodder
Hall of Pretty Good
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2012
- Messages
- 10,835
- Like
- 32,381
A non-boring style won a national championship. They also played some M2M.
And how many other teams played that same style? The fans at that school were ready to run him out of town after a number of early NCAA flame outs. We watch Syracuse more closely (of course) than we watch other teams. The grass isn't always greener.
This is a strawman. We can have an effective zone defense AND an effective offense.
This philosophy has made our margin for error small.
During that same time span our system for 3 years has gone 59-41.
Fly Rodder
Hall of Pretty Good
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2012
- Messages
- 10,835
- Like
- 32,381
And honestly Dash, you've been around the program a long time and despite any differences in opinion, I do respect your posting. So I'm curious for a real answer on this: with the historical success of the program, why have no other coaches copied/imitated Boeheim's (very) distinct system of the last 8-10 seasons?
Fly Rodder
Hall of Pretty Good
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2012
- Messages
- 10,835
- Like
- 32,381
You can always find some fans at any program are always ready to run the HC out of town for anything less than a national title. That's not a valid criticism.
Not a straw man. Actual results. We have gone to two final fours in 4 years with our boring style. The year before that, we went to the elite eight. Our offensive struggles have a lot more to do with players and the players have a lot more to do with recruiting and whether the probation has hurt us more than most here want to believe.
Well, Rob Murphy did. And that is because he was an ass't here. Most guys copy the guys that they were ass'ts under. At least to some degree. More importantly, I will say that more and more coaches are playing zone now than 10 years ago. I watch as many games as anyone here and have certainly noticed that. Some of that I do credit to our success. And getting back to the original point, most guys learned the game playing man to man and that is what they feel good about playing.
Why is it fortunate? We would have beat them just as bad if not worse than Middle Tenn did. Talk about a straw man? Did Middle Tenn beat Virginia too?
And I thought you didn't like bubble talk? In the past, bubble talk in meaningless. Either you made it or you didn't.
Cusefan0307
Red recruits the ACC!
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
- Messages
- 45,245
- Like
- 127,833
What does 06-08 have anything to do with what we do now? That was a completely different system with teams that played some man and didn't play a lick of defense.
Why are people obsessed with MSU on this board? Izzo makes the FF as a 8-10 seed and he is god. We do it and we are lucky. I'm frustrated with this year as much as anyone, but some of you contradict yourselves every other post.
H
HOFCeluck
Guest
Whhhhaaaaaaat
SoBeCuse
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2011
- Messages
- 12,140
- Like
- 14,887
Um, I'd frankly rather be Arizona the past three years. 59-41 and you are NOT supposed to get to the F4. Ours was obviously awesome but it was an ABERRATION. 10 seeds don't go to the F4 and probably won't ever again. I don't want to keep being a bubble team with constant drama. Arizona will get their F4. A very good chance this year. They have been consistently very good and an ACTUAL F4 threat lately. The F4 isn't all that matters. I'd rather be Arizona right now with those players, no drama, consistent high level playing. We are showing up in an ACCT game with tons of lack of bball IQ, breakdowns, offensive ineptitude, etc. Can't have that. Obviously we need better players and more of them. But, something must be questioned in a game like we just witnessed. Either the players can't learn or the coaches can't teach. Also wrap your minds around this: Miami shot 38.9% on FGs and only made 2-10 FTs. We shoot 56.8% on FGs and make 12-14 FTs. We made 10 more FTs then them and LOST! In a slow possession game. That's how bad the offense actually was. They also had 12 offensive rebounds to our 5 and put up 10 more FG attempts. Just amazing.
SoBeCuse
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2011
- Messages
- 12,140
- Like
- 14,887
Well to be fair that 8-10 seed Izzo team was part of an amazing run by them where every senior under him was getting to a F4. I don't remember the exact details or stretch. I think that Izzo team wasn't on life support heading into the Tourney time like SU has the past 3 years counting this one as well. They really started surging and improving.
H
HOFCeluck
Guest
MSU got to a final four as a 1,1,1,5,2,5,and 7 #fakenews.
H
HOFCeluck
Guest
If we shot 58 percent from three I'd give us a chance as well.
FrancoPizza
2018 Iggy Leading Minutes Per Game Winner
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2015
- Messages
- 9,184
- Like
- 12,532
Every time someone mentions 25-0 like we swept some type of mid-season Oscars, it brings us down to the level of Rutgers. It's that shameful.
CuseFaninVT
2023-24 Iggy Winner Leading Rebounder
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
- Messages
- 44,843
- Like
- 97,705
If you are talking about all zone all the time, then you are correct, but you also have to concede it certainly seems many other all M2M teams have adopted some sort of zone defense, including Duke, which is directly attributable to Boeheim.
cuseinseattle
All American
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2012
- Messages
- 5,905
- Like
- 15,436
I was going to post that comment about zone. Across the board I feel like I see it a lot more. I also feel like if you learned in a m2m system that is what you are comfortable with. Also I feel like there is a masculinity argument to playing m2m. Many people see it that way.
RF2044
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 30,571
- Like
- 98,390
"That span" also corresponds to a period of time where we've been hamstrung by NCAA sanctions, and recruiting has been harmed by the looming spectre of the investigation.
That is nonsense. That is the best start in the history of the school. But if you believe what you just wrote, than you have to be a believer that the end results, two final fours in 4 years is fantastic.
SoBeCuse
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2011
- Messages
- 12,140
- Like
- 14,887
Seriously tired of that. That was a flame out and not Arizona's tournament history or anything similar. Teams figured us out and we had no counter-punch. The offense the 2H of the season that year was hard to watch.
We can't have it both ways. The lost scholarships everyone said wouldn't hurt the program that badly because JB always gives two- three of them to walkons.
I understand we also lost two coaches on recruiting but the sanctions while BS were the result of some violation. I believe the NCAA made a mountain out of a mole hill.
I also don't believe JB is perfect. The argument that Dasher is making doesn't factor in all the bubble seasons we have had. Beyond the last year during this run I don't think JB has maxed out all they could. That 2013 team is a national champion if the offense in the system was just a little bit better. The defense of 2013 was elite. That team had enough talent to have a competent offense which it did not.
