Our Program Needs Change in Some of These Areas

[Cusefan0307]

Not answering my question. Buddy was brought in to be a shooter and struggled to the tune of 20% in his first 13 games yet was given chance after chance when most players would be clued to the bench for the rest of the season. Buddy was allowed game time to work through his mistakes my question is why weren't other players allowed to do the same?

They both were playing the same amount of minutes until the first Duke game and then Carey became undressed by Jones and that’s when everything changed.

Also we do not see what happens at practice so...

 

[Millhouse]

Buddy was 8/40 to start the year. One person got a chance to play and improve the other didn't and got yanked at every mistake. My question is why? Why did one get that chance and the other didn't?

boeheim would've loved to play the guy if it wasn't a damn disaster for the offense every time he's in the game

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[Millhouse]

They both were playing the same amount of minutes until the first Duke game and then Carey became undressed by Jones and that’s when everything changed.

Also we do not see what happens at practice so...

of all the things to go after boeheim about, this is a weird one. we all saw the guy play, it's not like he's some backup we haven't seen and imagine things about

 

[Cusefan0307]

of all the things to go after boeheim about, this is a weird one. we all saw the guy play, it's not like he's some backup we haven't seen and imagine things about

Get used to it. Anytime Buddy does anything that costs us in a game the rest of his career the vultures will swarm and prefer someone else play despite any evidence that shows another player may not be as good.

This is why it’s incredibly hard to have your kid on your team unless he’s Doug McDermott and carries the team.

 

[phil77]

They both were playing the same amount of minutes until the first Duke game and then Carey became undressed by Jones and that’s when everything changed.

Also we do not see what happens at practice so...

I can't dispute the practice comment and you can't support it....

Again Carey got cooked by one of the best defensive players in college at that position as well as one of the best teams in college so what? Why wasn't he allowed to work through mistakes? Why wasn't he given extended run in the GT game when we were up 15-20 most of the game? Why wasn't he given extended run versus UVA when we were down 20 with 7 minutes left? Why was one player given chances the other player wasn't? Why was one player shielded and the other wasn't? (Re: shielded remind me why Buddy didn't play against VaTech? They said he couldn't handle pressure defense? But play Carey versus Duke?)

 

[phil77]

Get used to it. Anytime Buddy does anything that costs us in a game the rest of his career the vultures will swarm and prefer someone else play despite any evidence that shows another player may not be as good.

This is why it’s incredibly hard to have your kid on your team unless he’s Doug McDermott and carries the team.

I am all for playing Buddy I think he is a fantastic shooter and very happy he was allowed to work through his issues to start the season because he had some big games for us. I am not for treating Buddy different than other players on the team.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I am all for playing Buddy I think he is a fantastic shooter and very happy he was allowed to work through his issues to start the season because he had some big games for us. I am not for treating Buddy different than other players on the team.

He really hasn’t been treated any differently. Early in the year when he struggled he got spot Minutes as did Carey. He won the third guard job. He had been our most consistent guard the last month until yesterday, but whatever it doesn’t matter now.

 

[phil77]

He really hasn’t been treated any differently. Early in the year when he struggled he got spot Minutes as did Carey. He won the third guard job. He had been our most consistent guard the last month until yesterday, but whatever it doesn’t matter now.

So there in lies the issue I do not think he was treated equally. Last night was a prime example. But that doesn't take away what I think Buddy can be as a player or what he did for us this season.

 

[moqui]

So my question is why didn't Buddy get glued to the bench like JC did? Why was Buddy given chance after chance? You remember the first 13 games of the season when Buddy was shooting right around 20% from three I believe he started 8/40 or something like that? Why was he treated different? He was given game chances to earn those minutes and wasn't pulled after every missed shot or mistake. JC comes in commits 1 turnover and gets pulled. In blow out wins and blow out losses JC wasn't given a chance why? Why is that different with Buddy by the coach?

through the duke game, carey played in 16 of 17 games for a total of 253 minutes
through the duke game, buddy played in 15 of 17 games for a total of 178 minutes
in carey's 16 games during that stretch, he had 4 appearances in single digit minutes
in buddy's 15 games during that stretch, he had 8 appearances in single digit minutes
so, tell us again: who had more of a chance to prove himself?

in their first 4 acc games, which is where the separation occurred,
carey had 8 turnovers in 35 minutes
buddy shot 36% from three in 36 minutes

are you seriously going to argue that they didn't both get a chance and the right choice was made?

 

[hoopsupstate]

So there in lies the issue I do not think he was treated equally. Last night was a prime example. But that doesn't take away what I think Buddy can be as a player or what he did for us this season.

Did you watch practice everyday? You have no clue what happened at practice that might separate the two. All we need is another player on the floor who you don’t need to guard. It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to realize why Carey didn’t play. This whining about why Buddy played is getting old.

 

[RoysRunts]

What do you want? Finesse team or Power team? Boeheim has been married to a finesse team for the majority of his career. You need rugged ,power players in the pivot. I'll take Craig Forth/Jeremy McNeil types any day..Watching Buffalo today confirms it..

 

[SBU72]

Sure, but I have to imagine part of the problem is that even when he tries hard to get someone to stay, they're going to be saying, "Why? Every minute I spend practicing/playing the zone is a minute I'm losing out on improving on stuff that's going to help me be an NBA player..."

Or, "Why? So I can come back and play with no point guard?"

Or, "Why? So I can come back and play out of position because you didn't recruit X position?"

Insert whichever one applies to whichever player, but this is part of the problem. Even in situations where overall it's best for that player to have another year in college, at the end of the day I wonder how many of them wished they had gone to a school that played man-to-man, focused more on offense, and balanced their recruiting well enough to make sure they were playing their proper position with other players playing their proper positions.



Yup, I agree completely. Also, I imagine it factors heavily into some of our recruiting struggles. Like, when a guy leaves a year earlier than planned we're almost always totally screwed at that position. I would imagine a lot of guys don't want to consider coming here if there's a chance they're stuck behind someone for a year, because they know that means <5 minutes a game. You know other coaches have to be in their ear about that when they're recruiting against us. "You're going to be eighth in their rotation, look at their stats the last decade, Boeheim only plays seven guys."

And you know all these kids coming out of high school are super confident and optimistic, so they're probably thinking, "Hey, give me 10-15 minutes a game and I'll make you give me 30 minutes." But if they think they're only going to get five, what's the point of risking a year of basically not playing if they're stuck behind a returning starter?

So when that's the case, you basically pin yourself in to having to recruit well at the position you need in the year you need it AND not have a guy leave earlier than expected. If any of that goes wrong, you start having to slide guys into different positions and make do. We can get away with it defensively because of the zone, but it turns into a complete train wreck offensively some years. The exception being when we have a truly elite talent who can just carry us at the offensive end, or someone really versatile who can slide into another position and excel.

I'm glad you are such a mind reader and know for sure all those guys left early because they hated playing zone. Also back to what somebody said were the glory years (2010-13), I do believe they played exclusively zone and that didn't impact them being good years.

 

[Millhouse]

Did you watch practice everyday? You have no clue what happened at practice that might separate the two. All we need is another player on the floor who you don’t need to guard. It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to realize why Carey didn’t play. This whining about why Buddy played is getting old.

It's crazy. Boeheim would've loved to play both of them if Carey wasn't a liability

 

[Ghost]

He really hasn’t been treated any differently. Early in the year when he struggled he got spot Minutes as did Carey. He won the third guard job. He had been our most consistent guard the last month until yesterday, but whatever it doesn’t matter now.

His spot minutes were used to build confidence. When he sucked, we did even more to build his confidence.

I mean, if you're third guard cannot play against pressure defense...that's an issue. He was a specialist. That's a scary proposition, when:

Frank Howard is your PG.....A basket case with a spotty track record and an ongoing injury.

I'm not sure we can call him our most consistent guard...he was asked to stand and shoot spot-up threes. That's not a herculean task for a shooter. He did it well, and WE NEEDED IT. I loved what Buddy gave us this year, but honestly he was tasked with less than any guard in Syracuse history. Stand and spot up at shooting guard. Cooney could have shot the lights out if that was his only responsibility...which doesn't make it wrong, it's just a different scale for me when you're talking specialist versus an actual shooting guard and the associated responsibilities.

I'm not sure what I do differently...well, likely I try to play Carey in the same way we used Buddy once Frank came back. Ease him into a role, let him suck at times, and deal with it...

I don't know, and this narrative existed throughout the year, it's not new. We were always playing with fire, but if Frank doesn't be Frank, who knows, maybe it doesn't matter. I don't know. All that being said, I don't see practice, maybe Jalen was just as god-awful with the ball all the time in practice, in which case, what are you going to do????? If he's that jittery in practice, and in games, you can't really play him.

He can't be that bad all the time though, no? He wasn't that bad against Oregon and UConn...Tre Jones is soooo good that he caused all that?

 

[tbonezone]

different yokes for different folks. that's jb's way. buddy ain't bringing the ball up court vs. pressure. no way. he trots downcourt and waits. and despite his height he's really not all that great at inbounding as we've seen. i'd compare jalen's handle to buddy's as the difference between the wing speed of a hummingbird versus a pelican. buddy's a shooter. great team player. jalen is ...well we just don't know. one TO and he's pulled. can't judge based on 3 mpg.

 

[br801]

Not answering my question. Buddy was brought in to be a shooter and struggled to the tune of 20% in his first 13 games yet was given chance after chance when most players would be clued to the bench for the rest of the season. Buddy was allowed game time to work through his mistakes my question is why weren't other players allowed to do the same?

Buddy potentially brought something to the game (3-point shooting off the bench) that no one else did, so he was allowed to play through his poor shooting early in the season. To his credit, he remained confident in his shot and eventually found success there. Had he been reluctant to shoot the three (his primary role at this point) and/or continued to shoot 20% from there, he would have seen his playing time disappear.

Carey was fed plenty of minutes early in the year and had a few excellent scoring games when Howard was out, but generally was prone to turning the ball over at a high rate, and ultimately lost his role as third guard when Battle became the team's second best option at the point and Buddy became a consistent and highly efficient scoring option.

Both Buddy and Carey earned their late season playing time on merit.

 

[GHLF]

So my question is why didn't Buddy get glued to the bench like JC did? Why was Buddy given chance after chance? You remember the first 13 games of the season when Buddy was shooting right around 20% from three I believe he started 8/40 or something like that? Why was he treated different? He was given game chances to earn those minutes and wasn't pulled after every missed shot or mistake. JC comes in commits 1 turnover and gets pulled. In blow out wins and blow out losses JC wasn't given a chance why? Why is that different with Buddy by the coach?

Long time reader, Alum, fan. I try not to complain. I saw this at the beginning of the year. Incongruency between how he treated Buddy and Carey. I think Buddy is going to thrive, however I said in the beginning of the year to my son, I hope JB does not ruin this kid. I could say so much. I think JB is a tremendous coach, had it not been for injuries and previous suspensions such as Arinze and Fab I firmly believe we would have been dancing. I just do not like how he treats his players. No inspiration. It is over for me and so much more than losing a bball game. Longtime supporter, season ticket holder and Alum. I pray for a graceful ending. I am soooooo happy for Hop. Graces

 

[GHLF]

I can't dispute the practice comment and you can't support it...

Again Carey got cooked by one of the best defensive players in college at that position as well as one of the best teams in college so what? Why wasn't he allowed to work through mistakes? Why wasn't he given extended run in the GT game when we were up 15-20 most of the game? Why wasn't he given extended run versus UVA when we were down 20 with 7 minutes left? Why was one player given chances the other player wasn't? Why was one player shielded and the other wasn't? (Re: shielded remind me why Buddy didn't play against VaTech? They said he couldn't handle pressure defense? But play Carey versus Duke?)

Agree