people are too down on TD

[Chip]

Why would you not expect good things from a freshman. Many freshman qbs have come in to programs every year and played well.

I think it's more exception than norm.

Hope we get another exception.

 

[RF2044]

Devito is Exhibit A for why it is important to stack talent in the QB room and develop that talent.

Devito was an awesome recruit. He was on essentially an all star team in high school and crushed the camp circuit. His physical tools were impressive and easy to see.

However, the QB position contains elements that are very hard to scout. The position is incredibly cerebral and relies on quick information processing and decision making. Sometimes supremely talented guys in the physical sense of throwing the ball lack talent in the processing and decision making (note: this is NOT the same as intelligence or work ethic, in the same way that someone's arm strength isn't the same as dedication in the weight room.)

Since the mental side is hard to discern through scouting high school - particularly when the school is a powerhouse with athletic advantages across the board over most schools - it is important to have a steady stream of talent, because some guys will inevitably wash out.

Syracuse has been a disaster as recruiting the QB position since landing Devito. To exacerbate that, Dino's decision to hire his daughter's father-in-law as QB coach - a guy who had never coached at the college level and had no proven track record of QB development - proved to be a disaster. It hurt recruiting and it hurt development, and as a result, Syracuse has one of, if not the, worst QB rooms in P5 football. That QB is the most important position in sports makes the ceiling of the team very low.

With a better managed QB room, Devito gets pushed (not annointed). If he doesn't improve, there is someone else ready to take over. If nobody in the room is ready, you bring in a grad transfer. With the way power programs stack QB talent, and the way QB's don't like waiting around if they aren't starting within 2 or 3 years, Syracuse should/could be a place talented QB's who lose position battles at power schools look to transfer. For whatever reason, Syracuse has seemed wary of upsetting Devito rather than doing what it
takes to upgrade the overall talent in the room.

It's a shame, since I do think top to bottom, the talent and athleticism in the program has improved remarkably under Dino. But I think he has absolutely botched the QB position, which is why there isn't any kind of sustained success.

I think the first part of your post is absolutely spot on - perhaps the best post in the entire thread.

I don't agree with the second half, that the QB position has been botched. Far too early to say that. I agree that DeVito looks as though he won't live up to the HS ratings -- he can certainly dispel that opinion, but things are not trending positively. Amie is a f*** up. He was a nice get. We don't know what we have in Summers. We don't know what we have in Markiewicz or Morgan. And Lamson is a very, very nice get in the latest class -- perhaps a kid who will end up as a four-star.

If you want to blame the staff for Chance's screw ups and what transpired, that's fine -- but the kid threw away a golden opportunity. Maybe he would have beaten Tommy outright [and given us a dual threat in the mold of Dungey] if he'd been more focused.

Otherwise, the staff is doing what they should. Trying to fill the QB room pipeline with prospects who fit the system, and letting things shake out. What happens if Markiewicz ends up being a quality starter? Or Summers? Or Lamson? All we know at this point is that DeVito seems to be busting. That's not "botching" it -- QB is a numbers game. Even at the factories, they bring in top flight recruits at QB every year, and many don't have the chops and end up transferring.

 

[USMCSnyper]

The staff went after Cade Fortin for a reason, IMO. We all know it is kinda hard to play QB while looking up at the lights or running for your life. IF we had a good O-Line, TD would be fine. All IMO.

 

[CousCuse]

The staff went after Cade Fortin for a reason, IMO. We all know it is kinda hard to play QB while looking up at the lights or running for your life. IF we had a good O-Line, TD would be fine. All IMO.

Last year Welch came in and the team looked better. Why not give Rexy a shot, is DeVito's ego that fragile? This is a P5 starting job, one step away from the NFL and a kings fortune. This IS big boy football, man up or hit the road.

 

[orangepassion]

I think the first part of your post is absolutely spot on - perhaps the best post in the entire thread.

I don't agree with the second half, that the QB position has been botched. Far too early to say that. I agree that DeVito looks as though he won't live up to the HS ratings -- he can certainly dispel that opinion, but things are not trending positively. Amie is a f*** up. He was a nice get. We don't know what we have in Summers. We don't know what we have in Markiewicz or Morgan. And Lamson is a very, very nice get in the latest class -- perhaps a kid who will end up as a four-star.

If you want to blame the staff for Chance's screw ups and what transpired, that's fine -- but the kid threw away a golden opportunity. Maybe he would have beaten Tommy outright [and given us a dual threat in the mold of Dungey] if he'd been more focused.

Otherwise, the staff is doing what they should. Trying to fill the QB room pipeline with prospects who fit the system, and letting things shake out. What happens if Markiewicz ends up being a quality starter? Or Summers? Or Lamson? All we know at this point is that DeVito seems to be busting. That's not "botching" it -- QB is a numbers game. Even at the factories, they bring in top flight recruits at QB every year, and many don't have the chops and end up transferring.

Will be shocked if Summers ever touches the field. Didn't participate in scrimmage or make travel to NC game. Was a last second get after Maryland dropped him. I'm hopeful one of the young Freshmen or Lamson is the answer, but not sure how anyone can deny we've struggled recruiting the QB position when until this year we haven't landed a QB until right before signing day every year.

 

[RF2044]

Will be shocked if Summers ever touches the field. Didn't participate in scrimmage or make travel to NC game. Was a last second get after Maryland dropped him. I'm hopeful one of the young Freshmen or Lamson is the answer, but not sure how anyone can deny we've struggled recruiting the QB position when until this year we haven't landed a QB until right before signing day every year.

I'm comfortable saying that nobody here knows what we have in Morgan, Markiewicz, or Lamson yet -- so I don't agree with the conclusion that we've "struggled" -- but I certainly understand why people might be concerned.

3 of the 5 years we've landed QBs right around signing day [it wasn't just last year] -- which isn't ideal. Juxtapose that with what transpired for the class of 2021, when we landed our QB early and didn't have to worry about it.

But WHEN we landed a prospect is irrelevant, all that matters is that we landed them and what happens next. What does when we landed someone matter, if -- just for example -- Markeiwicz or Morgan end up being a quality starter?

Consider that of the QBs this coaching staff has brought in, the top rated one -- DeVito -- hasn't lived up to the billing. That alone should highlight what a crapshoot projecting QB prospects is.

Because of that, the coaches just need to add the best athletes and system fits they can, get as much QB talent in the pipeline as they can, and let the chips fall where they may. Some guys have better tools than others, while others may have the "IT" factor, whereas others don't.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

once opposing coaches started game planning for Devito he has been really mediocre at best. Pretty cut and dry. Syracuse needs a QB that is a legit running threat as well to offset a lot of the issues up front.

Uh he was responsible for all of our good running plays. I don’t think the RBs got a single first down.

Ridiculous some of the standards this kid is being held to when the other units are 1AA level. OL/RB/WR stink and the TE need to stay in to block.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

[

Uh he was responsible for all of our good running plays. I don’t think the RBs got a single first down.

Ridiculous some of the standards this kid is being held to when the other units are 1AA level. OL/RB/WR stink and the TE need to stay in to block.

So you are calling Devito a legit running QB? like a Dungey? Please

Devito is part of the problem as well, not much disputing it. he has been pretty bad so far as a starter

 

[TheCusian]

So here is the thing, Tommy came in with a ton of hype, and he had all the accolades to suggest he was going to be at least as good as Eric or Ryan. This is not his first or even second Year! He is not showing the improvement that is needed for a power 5 starting Qb. I feel bad for the kid but thus far he has been a bust. I work with a guy who started at Defensive Back for Iowa state for 2 years and his quote was “that kid just don’t have it” and that “he doesn’t scare any defense.” Now is that true? I don’t know but it seems to be on point.

His stats from last year were as good as those guys on average. He’s not far away. Hopefully he can overcome whatever mental thing has got him

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The staff went after Cade Fortin for a reason, IMO. We all know it is kinda hard to play QB while looking up at the lights or running for your life. IF we had a good O-Line, TD would be fine. All IMO.

Fwiw it's worth South Florida had 3 players throw passes on Saturday vs The Citadel, and Cade Fortin was not one of them. I don't know what to make of that.

 

[TheCusian]

Uh he was responsible for all of our good running plays. I don’t think the RBs got a single first down.

Ridiculous some of the standards this kid is being held to when the other units are 1AA level. OL/RB/WR stink and the TE need to stay in to block.

RB/QB/WR are not as bad as you allude to here. There’s a QB throwing on time issue that is in part due to OL and no running game which is OL mostly too.

When you’re that bad on O but most of the guys have had good if not great moments for us in their careers - it’s a collective issue - but mostly stemming from OL imo

 

[CousCuse]

RB/QB/WR are not as bad as you allude to here. There’s a QB throwing on time issue that is in part due to OL and no running game which is OL mostly too.

When you’re that bad on O but most of the guys have had good if not great moments for us in their careers - it’s a collective issue - but mostly stemming from OL imo

Does the o-line get graded on the number of sacks they give up? Of course they do. When he tucks the ball and takes a sack instead of throwing it away or steps out of bounds for a loss, which is also goes as a sack, and makes the o-line look bad, that kills morale. If you worked for a manager that did things to make themself look good and make you look bad, would you work hard for them?

 

[leftytg]

I think the first part of your post is absolutely spot on - perhaps the best post in the entire thread.

I don't agree with the second half, that the QB position has been botched. Far too early to say that. I agree that DeVito looks as though he won't live up to the HS ratings -- he can certainly dispel that opinion, but things are not trending positively. Amie is a f*** up. He was a nice get. We don't know what we have in Summers. We don't know what we have in Markiewicz or Morgan. And Lamson is a very, very nice get in the latest class -- perhaps a kid who will end up as a four-star.

If you want to blame the staff for Chance's screw ups and what transpired, that's fine -- but the kid threw away a golden opportunity. Maybe he would have beaten Tommy outright [and given us a dual threat in the mold of Dungey] if he'd been more focused.

Otherwise, the staff is doing what they should. Trying to fill the QB room pipeline with prospects who fit the system, and letting things shake out. What happens if Markiewicz ends up being a quality starter? Or Summers? Or Lamson? All we know at this point is that DeVito seems to be busting. That's not "botching" it -- QB is a numbers game. Even at the factories, they bring in top flight recruits at QB every year, and many don't have the chops and end up transferring.

Respectfully, I think you are rhetorically leaning on the unknown to reach the conclusion things aren't as bad as they seem. I think that is whistling past the graveyard.

To be sure - you are 100% correct that we don't know what we have with the young guys. It is entirely feasible that a quality QB emerges from that group, as any football fan can point to examples of under recruited guys defying odds and making it. I absolutely can't and won't say otherwise.

But when evaluating recruiting efforts - which is what we should be focused on, given the inexact ability to predict outcomes - it is clear that Syracuse's QB recruiting in recent years has been subpar. Sometimes your plan D ends up better than your plan A. But over time - if you are a quality talent evaluator - your plan A should be a better player than your plan D. If things went to plan for Syracuse, Markiewicz, Summers, or Morgan would not be on campus. Just because things ended up well for the British at Dunkirk doesn't mean anyone would want their troops pinned against the beach.

Negativity sucks, and being an outright pessimist takes all the fun out of being a fan. But starry eyed optimism isn't much better. Hope for the best, but be grounded in realism. And, like it or not, the realistic take on Syracuse QB recruiting since Devito has been gloomy.

Amie was a f***up, but he wasn't a particularly good get. He was a Texas kid who attracted little attention from area P5 schools, despite being in the talent rich Tyler area. His choice came down to Houston and Syracuse. Perhaps other schools pegged him for a head case and backed off? Perhaps it is even the right move for Syracuse to take shots on high upside athletes with iffy mental evaluations in case one happens to pan out. But in no way was he a "good get". Maybe a high upside get, but there wasn't much competition for him. The lack of competition for a recruit tends to be a good barometer.

Lets hope Lamson is the real deal, or one of the QBs already on campus is lightning in a bottle. But Lamson was the 17th QB offer they put out. Markiewicz and Morgan were last minute fliers after priority targets went elsewhere. While acknowledging that nobody knows with certainty how good a guy is until the pads are on and the games are players, it is impossible to conclude that QB recruiting has been going as intended.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Respectfully, I think you are rhetorically leaning on the unknown to reach the conclusion things aren't as bad as they seem. I think that is whistling past the graveyard.

To be sure - you are 100% correct that we don't know what we have with the young guys. It is entirely feasible that a quality QB emerges from that group, as any football fan can point to examples of under recruited guys defying odds and making it. I absolutely can't and won't say otherwise.

But when evaluating recruiting efforts - which is what we should be focused on, given the inexact ability to predict outcomes - it is clear that Syracuse's QB recruiting in recent years has been subpar. Sometimes your plan D ends up better than your plan A. But over time - if you are a quality talent evaluator - your plan A should be a better player than your plan D. If things went to plan for Syracuse, Markiewicz, Summers, or Morgan would not be on campus. Just because things ended up well for the British at Dunkirk doesn't mean anyone would want their troops pinned against the beach.

Negativity sucks, and being an outright pessimist takes all the fun out of being a fan. But starry eyed optimism isn't much better. Hope for the best, but be grounded in realism. And, like it or not, the realistic take on Syracuse QB recruiting since Devito has been gloomy.

Amie was a f***up, but he wasn't a particularly good get. He was a Texas kid who attracted little attention from area P5 schools, despite being in the talent rich Tyler area. His choice came down to Houston and Syracuse. Perhaps other schools pegged him for a head case and backed off? Perhaps it is even the right move for Syracuse to take shots on high upside athletes with iffy mental evaluations in case one happens to pan out. But in no way was he a "good get". Maybe a high upside get, but there wasn't much competition for him. The lack of competition for a recruit tends to be a good barometer.

Lets hope Lamson is the real deal, or one of the QBs already on campus is lightning in a bottle. But Lamson was the 17th QB offer they put out. Markiewicz and Morgan were last minute fliers after priority targets went elsewhere. While acknowledging that nobody knows with certainty how good a guy is until the pads are on and the games are players, it is impossible to conclude that QB recruiting has been going as intended.

I know Amie was considered good enough to be as someone that could push Devito when he was here FWIW. Not saying he would have played, been good bad or whatever. Obviously, the kid has gone downhill since he left but just my 2 cents

 

[CousCuse]

Does the o-line get graded on the number of sacks they give up? Of course they do. When he tucks the ball and takes a sack instead of throwing it away or steps out of bounds for a loss, which is also goes as a sack, and makes the o-line look bad, that kills morale. If you worked for a manager that did things to make themself look good and make you look bad, would you work hard for them?

To extrapolate this further, if the general manager can't see what one of his department heads is doing is selfish, then he too is incompetent. And if the CEO can't see that this is a management issue that is holding back the organization, then he too is failing at his job.

 

[RF2044]

Respectfully, I think you are rhetorically leaning on the unknown to reach the conclusion things aren't as bad as they seem. I think that is whistling past the graveyard.

To be sure - you are 100% correct that we don't know what we have with the young guys. It is entirely feasible that a quality QB emerges from that group, as any football fan can point to examples of under recruited guys defying odds and making it. I absolutely can't and won't say otherwise.

But when evaluating recruiting efforts - which is what we should be focused on, given the inexact ability to predict outcomes - it is clear that Syracuse's QB recruiting in recent years has been subpar. Sometimes your plan D ends up better than your plan A. But over time - if you are a quality talent evaluator - your plan A should be a better player than your plan D. If things went to plan for Syracuse, Markiewicz, Summers, or Morgan would not be on campus. Just because things ended up well for the British at Dunkirk doesn't mean anyone would want their troops pinned against the beach.

Negativity sucks, and being an outright pessimist takes all the fun out of being a fan. But starry eyed optimism isn't much better. Hope for the best, but be grounded in realism. And, like it or not, the realistic take on Syracuse QB recruiting since Devito has been gloomy.

Amie was a f***up, but he wasn't a particularly good get. He was a Texas kid who attracted little attention from area P5 schools, despite being in the talent rich Tyler area. His choice came down to Houston and Syracuse. Perhaps other schools pegged him for a head case and backed off? Perhaps it is even the right move for Syracuse to take shots on high upside athletes with iffy mental evaluations in case one happens to pan out. But in no way was he a "good get". Maybe a high upside get, but there wasn't much competition for him. The lack of competition for a recruit tends to be a good barometer.

Lets hope Lamson is the real deal, or one of the QBs already on campus is lightning in a bottle. But Lamson was the 17th QB offer they put out. Markiewicz and Morgan were last minute fliers after priority targets went elsewhere. While acknowledging that nobody knows with certainty how good a guy is until the pads are on and the games are players, it is impossible to conclude that QB recruiting has been going as intended.

No I'm not -- I'm looking at the big picture, and not through the orange lens of starry eyed optimism, nor being preoccupied only by short-term uncertainty. I'm concerned, too -- I just am not willing to call QB recruiting a "botched" failure because I think we have some younger prospects who very well might prove to be better than the incumbent, which [my opinion only] will help to stabilize the position in the near future.

I acknowledged in the post above that 3 out of our 5 classes under Dino were landed right around signing day. That isn't ideal. Different story this year, which was a good thing. We've missed out on a lot of guys we targeted -- that's a bad thing. Not knowing what we have in several of the younger players is a net-neutral, until proven otherwise one way or the other that will tip the scales.

Case in point: everyone was extremely excited about landing DeVito, especially when he blew up at that thrower's camp and his rating got bumped up. Our problem at QB was "solved." That he hasn't panned out is what's contributing to the hand wringing. If he'd stepped in seamlessly for Dungey and performed like a difference maker, then he'd buy time for the next round of QBs to get immersed in the system and develop. How hard the staff went after Fontin last offseason speaks volumes, and should be instructive on the DeVito front.

I have no problem admitting that I'm intrigued by both Morgan and Markewicz, and I believe Lamson to be a great "get" -- and far, far, far better than our 17th choice, as you insinuate. Time will tell.

If one of these guys pans out, then the situation isn't as dire as how its been portrayed. All it takes is one, don't care who it is -- may the best player win. And if not, then we're in big trouble, Dino will be gone, and opinions like yours will be validated. Again, time will tell.

 

[JoeSU]

Fwiw it's worth South Florida had 3 players throw passes on Saturday vs The Citadel, and Cade Fortin was not one of them. I don't know what to make of that.

Especially since (if I understand the ruling) the NCAA granted players an extra year of eligibility this year. So it's not like USF is trying to protect Fortin's RS year,

 

[CsonkaStash]

I think very few on here really understand the offense. I dont many here every played QB and most in here are old enough that none of this style of offense even existed back in our day.. Sure he made some bad plays/throws. But as Dino says lost of things have to go right for a play to work. if the first read is Wide and its covered and the 2nd read is inside and that guy runs the wrong route the QB ends up looking pretty lost.

We as a group also fail to understand the reads are in a pre-determined order based on the play and the D and the down/distance.. Its not as simple hey that guy is more open throw it to him . Maybe the offense has a play and the D is in man look. That tells the first look to be the X running a slant, but the D was hiding some coverage so that look is not good post snap. So they he comes off it to the check down but they cover that too or he runs the wrong route and now he wants his 3rd read but the oline has missed something and the play has broken down.

we have issues in lots of places. there were 3-4 throws made where WRs ran to the wrong spot, we had several bad throws, we had 3-4 drops, we had 3-4-5 bad protections.. We had 2-3 good protections where the RBs missed blocks. And I am sure we had multiple bad reads by the QB..

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. I played for years in college and fully understand the pre-snap reads and how important they are. Brady made a living doing just that and audibled to favorable plays based on pre snap read (and I hate Brady but he was the master at it). For example they show linebacker blitz and audible to middle screen.

My issue with Devito is his tunnel vision, his lack of awareness at times (throwing the ball out of bounds and/or taking a sack on 4th down instead of throwing it up for grabs). He locks in on targets and fails to understand where his outlet is. It could be a dump off to a rb, or maybe its bringing the ball down and running.
As a D back which is what I played, you read a QB's eyes. Once again Brady would play tricks and look off a D back then throw back to the other side. Devito locks in on the right side often and does not look back. It is not by design always because I see the wideout on the left running a hard slant or curl.

He has a canon for an arm but he lacks many of the successful attributes of a QB. Maybe I will be proved wrong and I hope I am but I do not see a bowl with him at QB. To say the least someone needs to spend major film time with him working on going through his progressions, and quickly

 

[TheCusian]

Does the o-line get graded on the number of sacks they give up? Of course they do. When he tucks the ball and takes a sack instead of throwing it away or steps out of bounds for a loss, which is also goes as a sack, and makes the o-line look bad, that kills morale. If you worked for a manager that did things to make themself look good and make you look bad, would you work hard for them?

lol. It’s a team game. If they want to be successful as an offense they’ll likely need all 11 players. TD and the OL won’t be successful without each other.

also there is zero proof of what you allege here

 

[phil77]

I have only two issues with TD.

Tunnel vision. He only looks at the right side. This can't be by design and not sure what Dino and Gilbert can do to get him to change. Put all the WRs on the left and only TE on the right? They have to do something to break this habit. We are too easy to defend. Plug up the middle and stop the run and roll coverage to the right side of the field and we can't move the ball.

Second, his playstyle doesn't equal his attitude. He comes off like a gunslinger type but he plays too scared and the team feeds off of that in my opinion. He just needs to grip it and rip it as they say. If he throws INTs then he throws some INTs. He seems too afraid to throw anyone open in fear he will get an INT. INTs happen and are apart of the game. The offense needs a spark I think his attitude can be that spark but he plays scared.

 

[721Comstock]

Fwiw it's worth South Florida had 3 players throw passes on Saturday vs The Citadel, and Cade Fortin was not one of them. I don't know what to make of that.

Why, you could make a hat, or a brooch, or a pteradactyl...

 

[qdawgg]

Seems like we use to throw a lot more of those quick hiit bubbles with Dungey the first couple years, most times they get 2-3 yards nothing huge but they really are glorified run plays and like you said much better than a run up the gut. Only way we ever run the ball effectively is to get the pass game going first in some capacity

The thing with those plays is the D has to cover them too. So they may only get 2-3 yards all game but since the D has to compensate to make sure they don’t turn in to 8-10+ yards every time. It stretches the D out and opens things up running the ball up the gut, deep passes and across the middle.

 

[qdawgg]

We also have to remember as far as QB recruiting. While we want or think we need more dual threat QB’s, especially if O-line will be an issue more often than not. That’s not what DB wants in a QB. DeVito is the style of QB that DB prefers, not Dungey.

 

[upperdeck]

I have only two issues with TD.

Tunnel vision. He only looks at the right side. This can't be by design and not sure what Dino and Gilbert can do to get him to change. Put all the WRs on the left and only TE on the right? They have to do something to break this habit. We are too easy to defend. Plug up the middle and stop the run and roll coverage to the right side of the field and we can't move the ball.

Second, his playstyle doesn't equal his attitude. He comes off like a gunslinger type but he plays too scared and the team feeds off of that in my opinion. He just needs to grip it and rip it as they say. If he throws INTs then he throws some INTs. He seems too afraid to throw anyone open in fear he will get an INT. INTs happen and are apart of the game. The offense needs a spark I think his attitude can be that spark but he plays scared.

how many plays by design have the QB make the 2nd read on the back side? Some plays have the QB look off and then come back but thats not a read, that a play design. TD does have an issue I think it not trusting the 2nd read in time.. ED was the opposite. He came off the first read too soon and went with the 2nd read way more than the coaches wanted. It led to completions but missed a ton of big plays.

 

[CousCuse]

lol. It’s a team game. If they want to be successful as an offense they’ll likely need all 11 players. TD and the OL won’t be successful without each other.

also there is zero proof of what you allege here

I don't need stats, I have eyes. You must be blind.