Perhaps unpopular however... BURN IT ALL DOWN

[reedny]

If they cannot figure out a way to base payments on sport revenues, or some other logic-driven metric, then the jig is up on college sports. The problem will not be solved by paying the 5 star blue chipper the same thing as the field hockey benchwarmer.

Im not saying you are wrong re: the issues related to Title IX...just that if they cannot figure out a way to work with, through, or around that, then the whole idea of paying athletes is a non-starter in that it wont solve anything.

They're already paying them $4-5k (stipend) and it hasn't solved anything. They should get rid of the NBA's 1- year rule and let a select few kids out of HS enter the draft. The rest go to college and accept the tradeoff. No shams (UK), fake classes or bags of cash. Just because there's cheating and some people are greedy doesn't mean amateurism in college athletics is wrong.

 

[triplethrea]

They're already paying them $4-5k (stipend) and it hasn't solved anything. They should get rid of the NBA's 1- year rule and let a select few kids out of HS enter the draft. The rest go to college and accept the tradeoff. No shams (UK), fake classes or bags of cash. Just because there's cheating and some people are greedy doesn't mean amateurism in college athletics is wrong.

You're assuming that only the kids good enough to go to the NBA make money under the table.

Plenty of kids that go to Europe after school, plenty of kids that make big money for the school and never go to the NBA. Remember Aaron Craft? Many of these players are worth millions during their college days. How much was Tim Tebow worth in college on the open market? $5 million a year? Serious question.

 

[reedny]

You're assuming that only the kids good enough to go to the NBA make money under the table.

Plenty of kids that go to Europe after school, plenty of kids that make big money for the school and never go to the NBA. Remember Aaron Craft? Many of these players are worth millions during their college days. How much was Tim Tebow worth in college on the open market? $5 million a year? Serious question.

No, I realize some may have "value" in Europe or wherever. Under the current rules, that doesn't matter. When they commit to an NCAA school, they accept the amateur rules that go along with that choice. Schools derive revenue, but they provide education (at least the legit ones). That's the tradeoff. Where you and I might find common ground is in the timing. I would allow kids to enter the ddraft out of HS, commit to college for 2-3 years or go overseas and play pro (which they can do now). That's how it's done in baseball. It's a good model. Most kids benefit from their education, since that's all they'll have if they get cut or blow out a knee.

 

[texascpa]

My question is why more kids don't go to Europe. Most likely it's because they can still make more under the table in the US. Same goes for the G League, which I believe has a salary around $35K.

 

[triplethrea]

No, I realize some may have "value" in Europe or wherever. Under the current rules, that doesn't matter. When they commit to an NCAA school, they accept the amateur rules that go along with that choice. Schools derive revenue, but they provide education (at least the legit ones). That's the tradeoff. Where you and I might find common ground is in the timing. I would allow kids to enter the ddraft out of HS, commit to college for 2-3 years or go overseas and play pro (which they can do now). That's how it's done in baseball. It's a good model. Most kids benefit from their education, since that's all they'll have if they get cut or blow out a knee.

It still won't work as long as colleges make millions in TV revenue, merchandise, and tickets. Nobody really watches NCAA baseball, that's why it's a good model there.

As long as the money is in NCAA basketball and football, players will continue to get paid, regardless if the best players choose to play elsewhere. The best players that stay in NCAA (3-4 year guys) will still be worth thousands or millions of dollars, especially as they gain name recognition by their later years.

At some point, we need to stop pretending the education is worth anything to these players (or that we even care about their education), just like we pretended they weren't getting paid. Whether or not a college education is worth anything at all, is another topic altogether.

 

[Admiral Koga]

It still won't work as long as colleges make millions in TV revenue, merchandise, and tickets. Nobody really watches NCAA baseball, that's why it's a good model there.

As long as the money is in NCAA basketball and football, players will continue to get paid, regardless if the best players choose to play elsewhere. The best players that stay in NCAA (3-4 year guys) will still be worth thousands or millions of dollars, especially as they gain name recognition by their later years.

At some point, we need to stop pretending the education is worth anything to these players (or that we even care about their education), just like we pretended they weren't getting paid. Whether or not a college education is worth anything at all, is another topic altogether.

I don't think that anyone can stop the players from getting paid. But I think the worst cases will get eliminated. The top 25-35 players that were (for the most part) part of the FBI case would most likely get drafted by the NBA.
The rest go to college...yes, they will be getting paid on the side...but why would the shoe companies push to sign/pay them since, presumably because they weren't drafted, the return on their investment is a) less of a sure thing and b) at least three years out. Yes, they will be worth money three years out but they can go pro.

Also, I would change the CBB system to the MLB system where is a player is drafted...whether out of high school or year 3 of college...they can still return to college if they don't sign. Now, players have to declare and if not drafted, pretty much have to go to Europe.

 

[Quazzum69]

It still won't work as long as colleges make millions in TV revenue, merchandise, and tickets. Nobody really watches NCAA baseball, that's why it's a good model there.

As long as the money is in NCAA basketball and football, players will continue to get paid, regardless if the best players choose to play elsewhere. The best players that stay in NCAA (3-4 year guys) will still be worth thousands or millions of dollars, especially as they gain name recognition by their later years.

At some point, we need to stop pretending the education is worth anything to these players (or that we even care about their education), just like we pretended they weren't getting paid. Whether or not a college education is worth anything at all, is another topic altogether.

That's the thing that gets me. Tuition may be hundreds of thousands of dollars (like at SU), but that is not the same as getting hundreds of thousands of dollars! How do compare the value of free tuition to money?

It costs schools basically nothing to give athletes tuition. When you have tens of thousands of students already and a campus, etc., the cost of one additional student attending is insignificant compared to actually paying them.

 

[realorange]

This is penny ante compared to the cheating that goes on in big time football. But I doubt that will ever be exposed like this.

So you think Nick Saban sleeps well tonight?

 

[kirbivore]

Having been a lifelong college basketball fan, this really pains me to say. I will always have my 84' on Cuse memories to hold onto, but my interest has been waning for a long time. This shady, paying players has been going on for a longtime and this simply highlights how widespread, unequal and sloppy the underbelly has become.

Im certain every D1 program has taken part in this but some clearly go deeper than others. Yeah Im looking at you Kentucky, Duke and Oregon among many others.

You will always have an uneven playing field with someone willing to pay.

With that said, ive had enough. BURN IT ALL DOWN

 

[reedny]

It still won't work as long as colleges make millions in TV revenue, merchandise, and tickets. Nobody really watches NCAA baseball, that's why it's a good model there.

As long as the money is in NCAA basketball and football, players will continue to get paid, regardless if the best players choose to play elsewhere. The best players that stay in NCAA (3-4 year guys) will still be worth thousands or millions of dollars, especially as they gain name recognition by their later years.

At some point, we need to stop pretending the education is worth anything to these players (or that we even care about their education), just like we pretended they weren't getting paid. Whether or not a college education is worth anything at all, is another topic altogether.

Obviously (this is a college forum), I don't accept (and don't care to debate) your opinion that college is a waste. Just because a few 18 year kids would rather play basketball than go to class doesn't mean the amateur model is defunct. Not only will just about all of them benefit from the college experience by building their futures after sports, I think you're forgetting that: 1) at the HS level, education is compulsory (since 1918); and 2) collegiate athletes chose to attend college in the first place. No one forced them.

Currently the NBA has a 19/one-year from HS rule. But players can still go to Europe and get paid right out of HS. If good enough, they can return to the NBA. Therefore, for players with pro talent, under both systems -- the current one and the one I suggested -- college is a choice. All I'm suggesting is that we give them the choice earlier - right out of HS. If they're talented enough for NBA, Europe, whatever, they can go. But if they choose college, there should be no shams. Stay for a couple years, develop as a player and a young man and build something for life after hoops. That may come sooner than many think. I don't give a hoot how much TV money is involved. At the college level, we're doing young men -- and our educational system -- a disservice if we turn college into the D-League. That's the UK sham and I think it's despicable. If an 18 year old wants to play for pay, BOL. If he wants to go to college, he's making a wise decision, both for his sports skills and the rest of his life. Professionalizing college sports is a short-sighted notion.

 

[Hoo's That]

That's the thing that gets me. Tuition may be hundreds of thousands of dollars (like at SU), but that is not the same as getting hundreds of thousands of dollars! How do compare the value of free tuition to money?

It costs private schools basically nothing to give athletes tuition. When you have tens of thousands of students already and a campus, etc., the cost of one additional student attending is insignificant compared to actually paying them.

FIFY. Most states have laws which forbid state schools from using financial aid office money for athletic grants-in-aid. The UVa Bursar's office sends a bill to Virginia Athletics Foundation (our scholarship money-raising arm) tuition for several million per year to cover athletes' tuition for the 316.6 scholarships that are funded.

 

[cuse10]

How does a program like UNC Asheville pay their players. Albany? Boise State? Are these basketball programs even profitable? Does the 12th man get the same about as the leading scorer? How much do they get paid? Are they getting the same amount as the Kentucky or Kansas players or other programs that are highly profitable?

There's always been an arms race and some schools will have advantages others don't. Do we tear down the Melo Center because Southwest Oklahoma State doesn't have a top tier facility?

 

[RandygoCuse]

My question is why more kids don't go to Europe. Most likely it's because they can still make more under the table in the US. Same goes for the G League, which I believe has a salary around $35K.

My guess is that they go to college as this is better exposure than Europe (although this could change). Is there any evidence that they are getting money under the table from the gleague?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

There's always been an arms race and some schools will have advantages others don't. Do we tear down the Melo Center because Southwest Oklahoma State doesn't have a top tier facility?

So if Kentucky and Duke can afford to pay their kids $150,000, and we can't? This is NCAA sports, not the NBA.

 

[triplethrea]

Obviously (this is a college forum), I don't accept (and don't care to debate) your opinion that college is a waste. Just because a few 18 year kids would rather play basketball than go to class doesn't mean the amateur model is defunct. Not only will just about all of them benefit from the college experience by building their futures after sports, I think you're forgetting that: 1) at the HS level, education is compulsory (since 1918); and 2) collegiate athletes chose to attend college in the first place. No one forced them.

Currently the NBA has a 19/one-year from HS rule. But players can still go to Europe and get paid right out of HS. If good enough, they can return to the NBA. Therefore, for players with pro talent, under both systems -- the current one and the one I suggested -- college is a choice. All I'm suggesting is that we give them the choice earlier - right out of HS. If they're talented enough for NBA, Europe, whatever, they can go. But if they choose college, there should be no shams. Stay for a couple years, develop as a player and a young man and build something for life after hoops. That may come sooner than many think. I don't give a hoot how much TV money is involved. At the college level, we're doing young men -- and our educational system -- a disservice if we turn college into the D-League. That's the UK sham and I think it's despicable. If an 18 year old wants to play for pay, BOL. If he wants to go to college, he's making a wise decision, both for his sports skills and the rest of his life. Professionalizing college sports is a short-sighted notion.

The NCAA gives them an offer they can't refuse. The "they don't have to go to college" talking point has always been disingenuous.

Nobody is turning college into the D-League, it has already been the D-League for decades. I just don't see a way to fix this without burning it all down. If you put dirt in your cake and put it in the oven, you can't just take the dirt out after, you have to throw the cake in the garbage and make a new one. I think that's a good metaphor for college sports. Deeply, deeply corrupt. You may not want to talk about the true value of education, but I find the NCAA's student-athlete to be a mockery of education, and nothing more than a mouthpiece for legal slavery, with extremely deep racial undertones. "You should be happy you're getting a scholarship! Your education is priceless!" All while stealing millions of their dollars, and giving them crumbs under the table through intermediaries to steer them in certain directions. If that's not gaslighting, I don't know what is. Real psychopathic stuff. The idealism doesn't match the reality, and never really has IMO. You can't fix a system like that.

 

[reedny]

The NCAA gives them an offer they can't refuse. The "they don't have to go to college" talking point has always been disingenuous.

Nobody is turning college into the D-League, it has already been the D-League for decades. I just don't see a way to fix this without burning it all down. If you put dirt in your cake and put it in the oven, you can't just take the dirt out after, you have to throw the cake in the garbage and make a new one. I think that's a good metaphor for college sports. Deeply, deeply corrupt. You may not want to talk about the true value of education, but I find the NCAA's student-athlete to be a mockery of education, and nothing more than a mouthpiece for legal slavery, with extremely deep racial undertones. "You should be happy you're getting a scholarship! Your education is priceless!" All while stealing millions of their dollars, and giving them crumbs under the table through intermediaries to steer them in certain directions. If that's not gaslighting, I don't know what is. Real psychopathic stuff. The idealism doesn't match the reality, and never really has IMO. You can't fix a system like that.

College is not the D-League, unless you're a delusional UK fan. There are hundreds of thousands of college student athletes going to class and playing by the rules. Yes, there is cheating at the top levels of 2 sports. But that doesn't mean we should all throw out the baby with the bathwater. I haven't seen a post on here since 2012 with more misguided assertions. You rail about corruption but seem to want to re-cast the amateur athletics system in its honor. I mean, BMG. But that's not what SU's all about.

 

[Orangepace]

Having been a lifelong college basketball fan, this really pains me to say. I will always have my 84' on Cuse memories to hold onto, but my interest has been waning for a long time. This shady, paying players has been going on for a longtime and this simply highlights how widespread, unequal and sloppy the underbelly has become.

Im certain every D1 program has taken part in this but some clearly go deeper than others. Yeah Im looking at you Kentucky, Duke and Oregon among many others.

You will always have an uneven playing field with someone willing to pay.

With that said, ive had enough. BURN IT ALL DOWN

OP?

 

[triplethrea]

College is not the D-League, unless you're a delusional UK fan. There are hundreds of thousands of college student athletes going to class and playing by the rules. Yes, there is cheating at the top levels of 2 sports. But that doesn't mean we should all throw out the baby with the bathwater. I haven't seen a post on here since 2012 with more misguided assertions. You rail about corruption but seem to want to re-cast the amateur athletics system in its honor. I mean, BMG. But that's not what SU's all about.

OK. It's just UK. SU is not about that. I'll leave you alone so you can go back to sleep.

 

[Sudano]

Look, if paying the players is the answer then lets do it. But what would stop this from still going on? I mean it would assuredly be a flat rate, so then the shade factor just covers certain star players?

I dont see anyway this gets"fixed"

Good Point. How does paying College players enrolled in college stop colleges from offering 100K to a prospective recruit money to sign. Different issues entirely. Paying players doesn't stop shoe companies, financial advisors, agents, boosters to suddenly stop to pay more money to these players.
Pay what players? Pay star players more? How much should Toledo players get vs Kentucky players?
Pay football players? Even Middle Tennessee and Central Connecticut? The same amount? Now Alabama just buys better players.

 

[cuse10]

So if Kentucky and Duke can afford to pay their kids $150,000, and we can't? This is NCAA sports, not the NBA.

Kentucky and Duke would get kids off of the strength of being Kentucky and Duke. Syracuse will be better off than a Marist. No one is born equal.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Kentucky and Duke would get kids off of the strength of being Kentucky and Duke. Syracuse will be better off than a Marist. No one is born equal.

If that were true, Kentucky wouldn't have needed to mail Chris Mills $1,000 by FedEx. Duke supposedly bought a house for a kid's mother. Kansas nearly got the death penalty in 1988 for sending cash and plane tickets to recruits. Louisville is close to a top 5 program, and they cheat. These programs recruit against each other and programs like UNC, Arizona, Michigan State, Syracuse, UCLA, and Indiana. Not to mention the other programs like Villanova, Gonzaga, Wichita State, and Xavier that are building great programs. The elite programs are no longer dominant. I get that Marist is never going to be Syracuse, but not too long ago, people thought Gonzaga would never be a Georgetown or St. Johns. There's a lot more parity today. Not everyone is going to be a Kentucky, but there are a lot of Dayton's out there trying to be the next VCU. If Kansas is legally allowed to pay the #1 kid $150,000, and nobody else can, that's not right. If the NCAA wants to help with a stipend for kids, keep its the same for everyone, so it's not free-agency.

 

[Zepharus]

OP?

Sorta. My fantasy world is the one from The Walking Dead. I dream of that happening... I have a plan

 

[Cusefan69]

Sorta. My fantasy world is the one from The Walking Dead. I dream of that happening... I have a plan