Rebounding

[SU8888]

I caught part of the coaches show the other night and JB had a good point when asked about getting outrebounded would be an issue in close games. JB stated that we extended the zone and keep forwards in positions other teams do not. This creates turnovers which we lead the nation in steals. We average 11 steals which are created on the top of the zone which translates into easy baskets. He also said that rebounding numbers are misleading because many times there is multiple offensive rebounds under the basket in which the other teams are bothered by our length and do not convert. For the year he said we are break even in rebounds and when you take turnovers into consideration we are atleast getting 10 more possessions a game then the other team.

 

[moqui]

He also said that rebounding numbers are misleading because many times there is multiple offensive rebounds under the basket in which the other teams are bothered by our length and do not convert.

I have always advocated the creation of another rebounding stat - offensive rebounds and offensive rebounds plus. OR is what we already have, OR+ would be offensive rebounds that are converted into scores later in the same possession (even if not immediately). As currently measured, a lot of offensive rebounds are "empty stats": Every game you'll someone get two or three offensive rebounds on a possession but never convert. Those boards are meaningless, but they look just as impressive as an OR that leads to points in the box score at the end of the game.

 

[AZOrange]

I have always advocated the creation of another rebounding stat - offensive rebounds and offensive rebounds plus. OR is what we already have, OR+ would be offensive rebounds that are converted into scores later in the same possession (even if not immediately). As currently measured, a lot of offensive rebounds are "empty stats": Every game you'll someone get two or three offensive rebounds on a possession but never convert. Those boards are meaningless, but they look just as impressive as an OR that leads to points in the box score at the end of the game.

I always look at OR and opponent shooting percentage at the same time (the more meaningless ORs there are in a game the lower the shooting percentage). I think an interesting stat would be looking at DR as a percentage of total rebounds in a game. For example if we get 20 defensive rebounds and they get 20 OR we are getting 50% of the total rebounds available. That is arguably better than if we get 23 and they get 27.

 

[Knicks411]

I have always advocated the creation of another rebounding stat - offensive rebounds and offensive rebounds plus. OR is what we already have, OR+ would be offensive rebounds that are converted into scores later in the same possession (even if not immediately). As currently measured, a lot of offensive rebounds are "empty stats": Every game you'll someone get two or three offensive rebounds on a possession but never convert. Those boards are meaningless, but they look just as impressive as an OR that leads to points in the box score at the end of the game.

I guess they are meaningless once the game is over, but obviously at that point in time you don't know. I guess once you get s tarted down that road, you could do it for every stat; what about steals that lead to buckets vs steals that don't? If you continually give up offensive rebounds that don't lead to buckets; that may not hurt you on the scoreboard, but I don't think that should change the evaluation of the team. I think that makes sense. (Comparing it to baseball, I don't think hits or walks a pitcher gives up in an inning he doesn't allow any runs are meaningless; they provide insight into what kind of a pitcher he is). I guess it's more that I don't think an offensive rebound is meaningless if it doesn't lead to a score. Thought experimen tA) Fab grabs an offensive rebound, kicks it out to Dion, he bricks a 3. B) Fab grabs an offensive rebound, kick out to Dion, he nails a 3. I don't think A is less impressive than B because Dion missed a shot the first time.

Pomeroy tracks rebounding%, which I think is the best measure of a team's rebounding ability.

 

[Knicks411]

I'm just going to start a new post...

I think it WOULD be interesting to see how teams stack up over time in this regard. Is there a pattern; do some teams give up fewer points off the offensive rebounds they allow? Is this any different than just the defensive rankings? (For example, I would think a team with a lot of length inside might give up fewer points off offensive rebounds, adjusting for offensive rebounds allowed, but I have no idea if that is true).