REMEMBER THE NEW STADIUM? | Syracusefan.com

REMEMBER THE NEW STADIUM?

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REMEMBER THE NEW STADIUM?

6 things to know now


By Tim Knauss

tknauss@syracuse.com

Attorney Irwin Raij, a sports stadium expert who is advising Syracuse University, spoke last week to a Syracuse task force that is examining the potential for a new stadium on the city’s near East Side.

Raij (pronounced RYE) was hired by SU in October 2013 after the university was approached about the possibility of building a publicly financed $500 million sports arena near the former Kennedy Square housing project.

After a whirlwind two months of trying to pull the project together with state and county officials, Raij and the others pulled back after it became clear that Gov. Andrew Cuomo would not allocate money for the stadium in this year’s budget.

But Raij said SU is still evaluating the possibility of building a new stadium, as well as the alternative of renovating the Carrier Dome. Here are six key points he made to the task force, which was appointed by Syracuse Mayor Stephanie Miner.

1. SU continues to examine the potential for a new stadium to house its football and basketball teams.


But new Chancellor Kent Syverud has said equal attention should be paid to the option of renovating the Carrier Dome.

“We are actively looking at the options, because at some point or another a decision will have to be made what the future is — whether that’s the renovation or a new building. We are actively continuing to research and get our ducks in a row,’’ Raij said.

2.
Building a new stadium would require significant public financing.

That likely means waiting until the “next budget cycle’’ to see whether state officials are still interested, Raij said.

“We’re going to have to wait until the next budget cycle to see where the state is,’’ Raij said. “Since this budget cycle has passed, we have not been engaging in




Image_2.jpg

Raij




Stadium still a hot topic active discussions about it. If this were to move forward at some point, there would have to be community support, and there needs to be an engagement with various parties about potential funding sources.’’

3 .The Dome is in “solid shape.’’

But over the long term it will need a lot of work, Raij said. That’s why it makes sense to evaluate the potential for a new building. There was no immediate problem with the Dome that prompted SU to look at building something new, he said.

“The facility is functional. It’s a good facility,’’ Raij said. “Long term, the Carrier Dome is going to have to be maintained very often and very carefully. As great as the facility is, and everything it has brought the community, it is an aged facility.’’

4. The rush to put together a stadium proposal last fall was driven by the state budget process.

Cuomo’s budget proposal in January was the deadline. Raij credited the key participants — County Executive Joanie Mahoney, Cuomo’s office, SU and COR Development Co. — with undertaking a “Herculean’’ effort to beat the deadline.

“We were engaging as quickly as possible, gathering as much information as possible and sharing it with those we were told to communicate with, to try to determine if this was a feasible opportunity,’’ Raij said. “Let’s just say it was hectic. I spent Christmas Eve, Christmas Day. Let’s just say, from the 24th to the 31st, I didn’t sleep very much.’’

5. The Kennedy Square area was inviting because it was primed for development around a new stadium.

State and county officials made it clear that public funding required the project to spur economic development. The parties focused attention on a site near the former Kennedy Square parcel, which is now called Loguen’s Crossing. COR Development has a partnership with Upstate Medical University to develop nine acres at Loguen’s Crossing, right next to the proposed stadium site.

“COR was the site developer we were interacting with,’’ Raij said. “We understood that they wanted to build a hotel, a 250-room hotel. We understood they were interested in building a significant amount of retail, and housing. At one point I understand there were over 150 apartments (planned) on the site. That was appealing. I think that was appealing to the state, to the potential state partner. ’’

6. SU and its partners made a mistake by not communicating better with Syracuse officials, including Miner.

The city was not being asked to contribute funding. Raij said the university plans to work with Miner and her task force as it considers future options.

“We spoke with the state often about potential funding sources. We talked to the county about potential funding sources, and financing vehicles,’’ Raij said. “One of the things of building projects like this is, where are the funds going to come from? Because if there’s no money, there is nothing to build. So we engaged with those individuals. We try to do our best with that, and I think what we’ve learned is that we can do better.’’
 
As much as this has been discussed regarding the funding of a project like this, simple muni financing should have made this decision really easy. The city and/or county could have easily issued Muni bonds for the project to close the budget gap. A $200 million tax exempt muni would have cost the city/county about $1 million a year in financing costs (assuming a decent muni rate but I'm not an expert in munis) that could have easily been covered by a long term leaseback to SU to guarantee the muni payment and SU would not have to put much, if any, money upfront for the stadium either. Plus the city/county would have put the stadium plus all the surrounding properties back on the tax rolls adding to much needed tax revenue versus the Dome being tax exempt now.

I have not said much about Miner and she should have been brought into the process earlier if they needed her approval (mistake 1) but Miner is/was out of her freaking mind not to accept the state gift of having half of it paid for (mistake 2). SU would be out of its mind for not taking the gift from the state, county & city. It was a win win win all the way around.

As much as I use to like Miner, she was way out of her league here (and also in her defiance of Cuomo on retirement funding) and with her recent dismissal from the state Dem party leadership it now looks and should be the beginning of the end for her. She has become a major liability for all things Syracuse but knowing her she will fight to the bitter end. It would be so easy to run against her now as this fiasco could easily be used against her.
 
Come on. That $200 million was a carrot that Cuomo was holding out to entice CNY. It was never real, available money. You don't throw together a stadium project in a couple of weeks. Shame on NYS if that were the case. The mayor was the one showing the most fiscal responsibility in this whole charade. Too bad she's getting crushed in the wheels of the Democractic party's juggernaut.
 
For $500 million somebody will get screwed. Stadium financing is a large amount of BS and doesn't provide any significant uptick in economic impact. If SU can renovate the Dome for less money I think they do that. Plus the Dome has the charm of actually being on campus.
 
Private capital does not commit to projects that are projected to be money losing. The fact that they had significant private money in the pot indicates the return characteristics were considerd to be favorable. That fact trumps any random statements like - someone is getting screwed or stadiums never make money or whatever other blanket opinion - the people investing have done hundreds of hours of leg work and know what they are doing - allocators of capital don't stay in business long making bad investments in infrastructure projects.
 
Private capital does not commit to projects that are projected to be money losing. The fact that they had significant private money in the pot indicates the return characteristics were considerd to be favorable. That fact trumps any random statements like - someone is getting screwed or stadiums never make money or whatever other blanket opinion - the people investing have done hundreds of hours of leg work and know what they are doing - allocators of capital don't stay in business long making bad investments in infrastructure projects.
public private partnerships are often very profitable for the private investors. this is not news. no private investors like free money and no risk.

the problem is when they start allocating capital that's not theirs but don't allocate any of the profits.
 
As much as this has been discussed regarding the funding of a project like this, simple muni financing should have made this decision really easy. The city and/or county could have easily issued Muni bonds for the project to close the budget gap. A $200 million tax exempt muni would have cost the city/county about $1 million a year in financing costs (assuming a decent muni rate but I'm not an expert in munis) that could have easily been covered by a long term leaseback to SU to guarantee the muni payment and SU would not have to put much, if any, money upfront for the stadium either. Plus the city/county would have put the stadium plus all the surrounding properties back on the tax rolls adding to much needed tax revenue versus the Dome being tax exempt now.

I have not said much about Miner and she should have been brought into the process earlier if they needed her approval (mistake 1) but Miner is/was out of her freaking mind not to accept the state gift of having half of it paid for (mistake 2). SU would be out of its mind for not taking the gift from the state, county & city. It was a win win win all the way around.

As much as I use to like Miner, she was way out of her league here (and also in her defiance of Cuomo on retirement funding) and with her recent dismissal from the state Dem party leadership it now looks and should be the beginning of the end for her. She has become a major liability for all things Syracuse but knowing her she will fight to the bitter end. It would be so easy to run against her now as this fiasco could easily be used against her.
you don't get to spend 200 million dollars for nothing

someone pays for it.

i'd like a 200 million dollar house. maybe the city can do a muni and then lease it back to me. no problem!
 
Back in 2007 there were a group of ten business men who met with the folks at Syracuse.

I was at the meetings.

They had a good business plan that had the approval on the highest level at Syracuse. They had financing approved.

They were ready investors and said if Syracuse wanted to get in a lengthy feasibility study that they would move on. They had built other stadiums using a similar model.

Here was what was proposed.

A retractable roof stadium with a hotel built in.

An artificial turfed outdoor football field where fans could play.

They proposed to build retail into south campus for the students.

For parking and access they would have to take out part of Drumlins Golf Course and they'd petition NYSDOT for access from 481.

They also proposed a Hall of Fame restaurant much like the one in in Louisville.

There was even talk of installing an El system from South to Main Campus.

All the University had to do was provide the land.

As a part of the business deal parking and concessions would be shared.

There would be a Walk of Fame where there would be busts, plaques and statues of Syracuse greats.

I'm not going to get into what put everything into a 4 month stall.

At the end of that period the stock market crashed.

This effort really had traction but like they say, timing is everything.

I don't know if this model can be put together again but I thought it was pretty solid at the time.
 
Back in 2007 there were a group of ten business men who met with the folks at Syracuse.

I was at the meetings.

They had a good business plan that had the approval on the highest level at Syracuse. They had financing approved.

They were ready investors and said if Syracuse wanted to get in a lengthy feasibility study that they would move on. They had built other stadiums using a similar model.

Here was what was proposed.

A retractable roof stadium with a hotel built in.

An artificial turfed outdoor football field where fans could play.

They proposed to build retail into south campus for the students.

For parking and access they would have to take out part of Drumlins Golf Course and they'd petition NYSDOT for access from 481.

They also proposed a Hall of Fame restaurant much like the one in in Louisville.

There was even talk of installing an El system from South to Main Campus.

All the University had to do was provide the land.

As a part of the business deal parking and concessions would be shared.

There would be a Walk of Fame where there would be busts, plaques and statues of Syracuse greats.

I'm not going to get into what put everything into a 4 month stall.

At the end of that period the stock market crashed.

This effort really had traction but like they say, timing is everything.

I don't know if this model can be put together again but I thought it was pretty solid at the time.

lengthy feasibility study = doing your homework

i am very glad this went nowhere
 
This plan wasn't going to cost the university a penny, would have given SU the best stadium in the nation and these people had a proven track record of success with other stadiums that they built.
 
This plan wasn't going to cost the university a penny, would have given SU the best stadium in the nation and these people had a proven track record of success with other stadiums that they built.
then why be so scared of a feasibility study?

"the only thing that could possibly make this project fail is if you take your time to study it"

one of the benefits of a feasibility study might be that people like me whose first impression is that the idea is very dumb might be convinced otherwise
 
They were fast trackers, had money to burn and those studies can take forever.
why were they fast trackers?

when they renovate or build something new, i hope everybody has sometime to actually think instead of hoping for the best and trusting a bunch of people too shady to let anyone study

whichever chancellor let you guys out of the building did a great job
 
why were they fast trackers?
They were together and ready to invest and the time was right for them. They were searching throughout the USA for someone in need of a stadium and found us.
 
then why be so scared of a feasibility study?

"the only thing that could possibly make this project fail is if you take your time to study it"

one of the benefits of a feasibility study might be that people like me whose first impression is that the idea is very dumb might be convinced otherwise

Because feasibility studies take time. Typically that time is wasted time, particularly where there was no risk to SU, the City of Syracuse or the State of New York. Why do you need a feasibility study when you have no risk?
 
why were they fast trackers?
Because life is short , and people who create things want to manifest their vision before something happens to derail it. In this case, the economy, but there are many things that could derail any work. Cancer , disease , death of a loved one, companies come apart for all kinds of reasons .
 
dinosaurbbq said:
Because feasibility studies take time. Typically that time is wasted time, particularly where there was no risk to SU, the City of Syracuse or the State of New York. Why do you need a feasibility study when you have no risk?
How do you know there is no risk if you don't study it?
 
CousCuse said:
Because life is short , and people who create things want to manifest their vision before something happens to derail it. In this case, the economy, but there are many things that could derail any work. Cancer , disease , death of a loved one, companies come apart for all kinds of reasons .
Sign right now because cancer
 
CousCuse said:
Because life is short , and people who create things want to manifest their vision before something happens to derail it. In this case, the economy, but there are many things that could derail any work. Cancer , disease , death of a loved one, companies come apart for all kinds of reasons .
Also all these things that derail work is reason to carefully consider whether the company has a high risk of coming apart
 
Millhouse - not trying to be snarky with you at all - but what is the proper course of action? University funded dome renovation? Full private/lease situation?
 
Millhouse - not trying to be snarky with you at all - but what is the proper course of action? University funded dome renovation? Full private/lease situation?
leave it alone, fix the roof if you have to, don't make people in long island pay for it
 
“The facility is functional. It’s a good facility,’’ Raij said. “Long term, the Carrier Dome is going to have to be maintained very often and very carefully. As great as the facility is, and everything it has brought the community, it is an aged facility.’’

What exactly are the "very often" maintenance considerations? It's a big block of concrete, right? Are we talking about a lot of NDT checking the integrity of the structure?
 
Millhouse said:
leave it alone, fix the roof if you have to, don't make people in long island pay for it

Today. But what about 10 years from now? I get the no public funding - but there has to be some sort of plan to replace eventually...
 
leave it alone, fix the roof if you have to, don't make people in long island pay for it

It's not how the political system works...and you're taking a typical short sided idealistic viewpoint. NYC & LI have benefited immensely on the backs of up staters for as long as Sidney has been in office. Cuomo is just testing the Republican dominated up state populace with big status projects to garner and prove popularity to the national Dem party in his eventual bid for the Presidency.
 
leave it alone, fix the roof if you have to, don't make people in long island pay for it
We paid for Building part of Yankee Stadium, and keeping the Bills in Mew York State we will pay. We've paid for Mario's folly of Turning Stone, and his sons giving them exclusive rights. Its time Upstate gets some money back from the state, rather then it going elsewhere.
 

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