RIP to the RPI

[Cusefan0307]

When Duke played zone well last year it was never mentioned as a gimmick.

 

[SoBeCuse]

When Duke played zone well last year it was never mentioned as a gimmick.

It was dire straits what he was doing. I think everybody knew that. I’d bet he hopes he doesn’t need to use it anymore. I’m the one calling zone a gimmick though I have heard it mentioned as that occasionally over the years in the media. Again, doesn’t mean that it isn’t effective. I just am not required to like or worship it to validate being some true Syracuse fan.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It was dire straits what he was doing. I think everybody knew that. I’d bet he hopes he doesn’t need to use it anymore. I’m the one calling zone a gimmick though I have heard it mentioned as that occasionally over the years in the media. Again, doesn’t mean that it isn’t effective. I just am not required to like or worship it to validate being some true Syracuse fan.

Point is lots of people play zone. Pitino played a lot of zone and pressed with Louisville and UK. I only ever hear gimmick defense from people when it pertains to Syracuse.

 

[OttoMets]

I think a gimmick is something that's relatively unpracticed and just used to surprise an opponent.

Syracuse's zone: not a gimmick.
Trunk monkey: gimmick.

In other news, write "gimmick" three times in a single post and you'll be convinced that you've misspelled it.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Point is lots of people play zone. Pitino played a lot of zone and pressed with Louisville and UK. I only ever hear gimmick defense from people when it pertains to Syracuse.

True. Or somebody says, “Well they’re gonna sit back in that zone...” I’m not sure how many actually play it in all of Div 1. Play it meaning beyond just sprinkling in a possession or two. I liked what Pitino did. Man primarily with a good amount of matchup zone/press.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I think a gimmick is something that's relatively unpracticed and just used to surprise an opponent.

Syracuse's zone: not a gimmick.
Trunk monkey: gimmick.

In other news, write "gimmick" three times in a single post and you'll be convinced that you've misspelled it.

That’s possible re: surpise/unpracticed. Still, all of this is taking away from my point that we were a pretty average team overall last year. In the Tourney as well, IMO.

 

[Cusefan0307]

That’s possible re: surpise/unpracticed. Still, all of this is taking away from my point that we were a pretty average team overall last year. In the Tourney as well, IMO.

I’d still rather have our year than Virginia’s and I’m sure they would agree.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I’d still rather have our year than Virginia’s and I’m sure they would agree.

I’d probably agree. Hard to say. Would think cooler heads prevail when you step back and take a look at what they DID accomplish. I don’t think many had them as some F4 or title contender, though. I sure didn’t. My friend and colleague down there who is a big UVA supporter and knows Bennett didn’t let the loss bother him too much. I stay with him for five weeks in the summer. He was proud of their reg season and ACCT titles. He could be in the minority, though.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I’d probably agree. Hard to say. Would think cooler heads prevail when you step back and take a look at what they DID accomplish. I don’t think many had them as some F4 or title contender, though. I sure didn’t. My friend and colleague down there who is a big UVA supporter and knows Bennett didn’t let the loss bother him too much. I stay with him for five weeks in the summer. He was proud of their reg season and ACCT titles. He could be in the minority, though.

Coach speak.

I’m sure it bothered him.

If we lost as a one seed the media and this board would have killed JB and the team. We have the evidence from past years.

It’s happened when we lost as a 2-4 seed previously.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Coach speak.

I’m sure it bothered him.

If we lost as a one seed the media and this board would have killed JB and the team. We have the evidence from past years.

It’s happened when we lost as a 2-4 seed previously.

Ha. You know my colleague like I do? I’m telling you what he said and I know he was genuine. I didn’t say he wasn’t bothered. It’s not some coach speak. Again, he could be in the minority. Just sharing a perspective from one person actually connected to UVA I know. Not some hypothetical speculation.

 

[themole]

Did they publish sample BETs based on previous seasons? I looked but didn't see any

 

[cuseinseattle]

It was dire straits what he was doing. I think everybody knew that. I’d bet he hopes he doesn’t need to use it anymore. I’m the one calling zone a gimmick though I have heard it mentioned as that occasionally over the years in the media. Again, doesn’t mean that it isn’t effective. I just am not required to like or worship it to validate being some true Syracuse fan.

Sobe what do you like better the zone or our offense. Imagine if we played aggressive m2m and ran Michigan's offense. I mean what would you post about. Talk about a boring existence.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I’d still rather have our year than Virginia’s and I’m sure they would agree.

Being the first to lose as a #1 seed is brutal and will follow him around forever. If the debate was their regular season and a 2nd round exit or something I think we could have a debate. It's great to have the tourney run and I love that but when you struggle and lose 10-11 games in a season it really takes a toll when you watch every game and follow it as closely as I do. I mean if you are a casual fan maybe it is different. If you lose early in the tourney you are shocked and made but it isn't something the drags on. I would argue I would rather have a UVA regular season and 2nd round exit that a sweet 16 season and a bad regular season. Now if you made it an elite 8 or final 4 run I would change my mind.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Being the first to lose as a #1 seed is brutal and will follow him around forever. If the debate was their regular season and a 2nd round exit or something I think we could have a debate. It's great to have the tourney run and I love that but when you struggle and lose 10-11 games in a season it really takes a toll when you watch every game and follow it as closely as I do. I mean if you are a casual fan maybe it is different. If you lose early in the tourney you are shocked and made but it isn't something the drags on. I would argue I would rather have a UVA regular season and 2nd round exit that a sweet 16 season and a bad regular season. Now if you made it an elite 8 or final 4 run I would change my mind.

We had a team with GMAC and Warrick that won the BE, went 27-7 and finished 2nd in the Big East regular season and all everyone here talks about is their first round exit against Vermont on this board.

We had a team that won the Big East Regular season and went 26-6 and all anyone talks about is losing to Richmond on this board.

Virginia fans will never remember their great regular season.

 

[jncuse]

Just noticing this now.

I believe in the tournament being an objective rather than subjective exercise. I didn't believe in the RPI however, so this should help.

I have one major problem. They have capped scoring margin at 10 points. I believe the cap is a good idea but it should be at 15 points.

For example a dominant victory will only be worth 10 points, but a winner of a close game could win by 8 just because of FT's at the end. I don't want to encourage running up scores, but by making the margin 15 points, you do at least keep a dominant win distinct from a close win.

 

[Waltdods]

I think it's pretty obvious that a team that wins 8 out of 10 to end a season is more than likely playing better than a team that lost 8 out of 10 to finish the season. And that makes them a more deserving tournament team. Are there exceptions? Of course.

A team that goes 8-2 in the last 10 probably has a better record than a team that goes 2-8. But if the records are the same, I suspect there ain't much difference in the tournament showing. To test this, you could regress tournament results on last-10 games, controlling for seed. I won't do that!

But just looking at the last several Syracuse NCAA teams:

Last year the team was pretty consistently mediocre throughout. 5-5 in the last 10, which is more or less consistent with what they were all season. Can't take much either way from it.

In 2015-16, the team was terrible down the stretch, losing 5 of their last 6. They had one win in the month before the NCAA started. They went to the Final Four. Score one for the whole body of work.

In '13-14, the team was again pretty bad down the stretch, losing 5 of 7. Obviously, that team fell off a lot from the early season successes. It was one win and out. Arguably, this is a point in favor of late season performance mattering, although I think the overall record was also pretty telling.

12-13 is a bit of a weird one. SU had a great BET after a terrible end to the regular season. That Georgetown loss at the Dome to end the season was about as bad a basketball performance as you'll see. Not sure what to do with this one, though again I think the whole body of work was a pretty good benchmark for what SU ended up doing - that was a very good team that hit some weird stretches.

'11-12 was great all the way through. (So many W's!)

'10-11 was very good down the stretch - won the last 6 regular season games and 8/10. Went one and out. Would say the whole season was more telling than the end stretch.

09-10 was great all season, though actually did stumble a bit at the end of the year - dropping the last game of the regular season and of course the AO game in the BET. Not sure you can take much from this year either way in light of that injury.

People massively over-react to short-term trends in college basketball. Barring injury, I'm just not sure that running off an 8-game winning streak in late February/early March tells you anything more than the same in December/January (obviously, not counting the early season nonconferecne games).

 

[cuseinseattle]

We had a team with GMAC and Warrick that won the BE, went 27-7 and finished 2nd in the Big East regular season and all everyone here talks about is their first round exit against Vermont on this board.

We had a team that won the Big East Regular season and went 26-6 and all anyone talks about is losing to Richmond on this board.

Virginia fans will never remember their great regular season.

That is true in the moment you are mad and everything. I was more talking about looking back on it. That Warrick team was fun to watch and Warrick was amazing that year. My biggest memory is the Nova game and Warrick scoring like 30 points. He was amazing. If you are on the top 4 seed line and lose your first game it sucks. No doubt about it.

 

[cuseinseattle]

A team that goes 8-2 in the last 10 probably has a better record than a team that goes 2-8. But if the records are the same, I suspect there ain't much difference in the tournament showing. To test this, you could regress tournament results on last-10 games, controlling for seed. I won't do that!

But just looking at the last several Syracuse NCAA teams:

Last year the team was pretty consistently mediocre throughout. 5-5 in the last 10, which is more or less consistent with what they were all season. Can't take much either way from it.

In 2015-16, the team was terrible down the stretch, losing 5 of their last 6. They had one win in the month before the NCAA started. They went to the Final Four. Score one for the whole body of work.

In '13-14, the team was again pretty bad down the stretch, losing 5 of 7. Obviously, that team fell off a lot from the early season successes. It was one win and out. Arguably, this is a point in favor of late season performance mattering, although I think the overall record was also pretty telling.

12-13 is a bit of a weird one. SU had a great BET after a terrible end to the regular season. That Georgetown loss at the Dome to end the season was about as bad a basketball performance as you'll see. Not sure what to do with this one, though again I think the whole body of work was a pretty good benchmark for what SU ended up doing - that was a very good team that hit some weird stretches.

'11-12 was great all the way through. (So many W's!)

'10-11 was very good down the stretch - won the last 6 regular season games and 8/10. Went one and out. Would say the whole season was more telling than the end stretch.

09-10 was great all season, though actually did stumble a bit at the end of the year - dropping the last game of the regular season and of course the AO game in the BET. Not sure you can take much from this year either way in light of that injury.

People massively over-react to short-term trends in college basketball. Barring injury, I'm just not sure that running off an 8-game winning streak in late February/early March tells you anything more than the same in December/January (obviously, not counting the early season nonconferecne games).

I feel like the winning and losing streak is more about who you are playing a lot of times. For example to end the year if we have a stretch where we play Pitt twice, G Tech, NC State and BC then we could win 5 in a row after going 2-2 versus UVA, Duke, UNC and someone else. I feel like often times that is what happens.

 

[dasher]

A team that goes 8-2 in the last 10 probably has a better record than a team that goes 2-8. But if the records are the same, I suspect there ain't much difference in the tournament showing. To test this, you could regress tournament results on last-10 games, controlling for seed. I won't do that!

But just looking at the last several Syracuse NCAA teams:

Last year the team was pretty consistently mediocre throughout. 5-5 in the last 10, which is more or less consistent with what they were all season. Can't take much either way from it.

In 2015-16, the team was terrible down the stretch, losing 5 of their last 6. They had one win in the month before the NCAA started. They went to the Final Four. Score one for the whole body of work.

In '13-14, the team was again pretty bad down the stretch, losing 5 of 7. Obviously, that team fell off a lot from the early season successes. It was one win and out. Arguably, this is a point in favor of late season performance mattering, although I think the overall record was also pretty telling.

12-13 is a bit of a weird one. SU had a great BET after a terrible end to the regular season. That Georgetown loss at the Dome to end the season was about as bad a basketball performance as you'll see. Not sure what to do with this one, though again I think the whole body of work was a pretty good benchmark for what SU ended up doing - that was a very good team that hit some weird stretches.

'11-12 was great all the way through. (So many W's!)

'10-11 was very good down the stretch - won the last 6 regular season games and 8/10. Went one and out. Would say the whole season was more telling than the end stretch.

09-10 was great all season, though actually did stumble a bit at the end of the year - dropping the last game of the regular season and of course the AO game in the BET. Not sure you can take much from this year either way in light of that injury.

People massively over-react to short-term trends in college basketball. Barring injury, I'm just not sure that running off an 8-game winning streak in late February/early March tells you anything more than the same in December/January (obviously, not counting the early season nonconferecne games).

You are entitled to your opinion. I disagree with it. Once again, if the two resumes are real close, I go with how you are playing right now. Not three months ago.

 

[Cusefan0307]

You are entitled to your opinion. I disagree with it. Once again, if the two resumes are real close, I go with how you are playing right now. Not three months ago.

How do you do this with unbalanced schedules? If we go 6-4 playing going 3-3 against ranked teams and Michigan State goes 8-2 with 5 wins over Rutgers, Northwestern and Minnesota who’s playing better?

 

[dasher]

How do you do this with unbalanced schedules? If we go 6-4 playing going 3-3 against ranked teams and Michigan State goes 8-2 with 5 wins over Rutgers, Northwestern and Minnesota who’s playing better?

It's tough and it's not perfect. The Comm has to examine the records to make sure that isn't the case. In the same vain, both teams are 21-10 and one team finished 7-3 while the other team, playing the same type schedule goes 5-5. Who do you favor?

 

[SoBeCuse]

Sobe what do you like better the zone or our offense. Imagine if we played aggressive m2m and ran Michigan's offense. I mean what would you post about. Talk about a boring existence.

Ha. Good ?. I’ll take MSU’s offense any day. I think they were overconfident and then were flummoxed into the passing back and forth/launching threes trap. I don’t know how we even won that game with how we were slaughtered on the boards and how we did nothing on offense. We play that game 10 times and MSU wins 7-8 of those minimum, obviously. As they should.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It's tough and it's not perfect. The Comm has to examine the records to make sure that isn't the case. In the same vain, both teams are 21-10 and one team finished 7-3 while the other team, playing the same type schedule goes 5-5. Who do you favor?

I’d have to compare schedules. If the 5-5 team went 3 and 3 top against 25 teams in that period and the 7-3 team went 1-2 or 2-1. I might say they’re equal or favor the 5-5 team.

I just would worry going this route the ACC would get penalized because of the strength of their conference. You can go 11-7 in the ACC and still be a Final four team.

 

[longtimefan]

Ha. Good ?. I’ll take MSU’s offense any day. I think they were overconfident and then were flummoxed into the passing back and forth/launching threes trap. I don’t know how we even won that game with how we were slaughtered on the boards and how we did nothing on offense. We play that game 10 times and MSU wins 7-8 of those minimum, obviously. As they should.

And yet, in the one that counted. . .

 

[SoBeCuse]

And yet, in the one that counted. . .

Eh, right of course but...

You’re smart enough I’m sure to process the gist of this.

Come on. UMBC will lose 8 out of 10 to UVA normally. They aren’t all of a sudden the better team, lol.