ryan thrower not a passer

[kcsu]

We keep talking about the wide outs the oline etc... but other than his lack of touch on the deep ball we dont discuss Ryan. The fact is that Ryan is a thrower not a passer. He lacks the gift meaning he lacks touch, lacks the feel of a passer, he just doesnt have it and im afraid never will. Ryan has a strong arm. He can throw a ball harder than most he just cant PASS . So many think that he is going to make the pros let me tell you not in a million years. Sure he will get drafted or go free agent. He might even fool his way onto a roster but he will never make it unless he develops touch which is something you either have or you dont and in my opinion he doesnt. It is like a shooter in Bball. Same thing. Gmac had it others like Triche work at it. Gmac is a pure shooter. Triche has good mechanics but he isnt a shooter. Same with Ryan good mechanics not a passer. As to bringing in the new kid the home run threat and bringing back Sales that is all great but at the end of the day Ryan will at best be pedestrian as he is a thrower and not a passer.

 

[StealthTurkey]

Ill buy that. I think he still has something to prove as far as ability this year, even though it is his last.

While I wouldn't flat out say you're wrong, remember we have never really seen him in shotgun or any other formations in which he had all day to throw. If our O-line gives him some room, I think we'll find out how far Nassib will go after college.

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[44PRIDE]

To your point, Ryan just needs to learn that he doesn't need to rifle a full blast gunshot to a receiver running an 8 yard route. I mean sure it may have hit the receiver in the hands, but it hits their hands, slips through and bounces off their facemask.

take a little steam off those throws big fella.

 

[rrlbees]

So you think he might be able to "fool" the NFL guys?

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[kcsu]

So you think he might be able to "fool" the NFL guys?

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I do Bees and her is why. So many have in the past. The put way too much weight on the combine. Ryan is big, strong, runs an ok 40 and can make all of the throws in practice. In short he will do well at the combine. My point is he just doesnt have it. A true passer is born not made. Ryan has done really well with his gifts unfortunately the one that he needs to make the league he doesnt have.

 

[rocklloyd]

I don't think he will fool anyone.

 

[bnoro]

I don't want to delve into an argument, KC, but I think you're really off base here. He's made some really nice touch passes last season, and I really hope he can prove to the board he can hit the deep balls with an actual deep threat this season.

Also if JaMarcus Russell fooled the pro scouts into drafting him #1 (!) I think Nassib will "fool" the pro scouts because he's a good quarterback.

 

[Crusty]

What you are referring to is what I would call touch and it has a lot to do with exceptional eye-hand coordination. That is something you are born with but it certainly can be honed and developed. Same is true for putting. If you look at the Hogan's and Sneads they were all very wristy back then, which you never see today. Imagine the exceptional touch they had to play with essentially bad technique on Augusta and Open greens. Guys like Crenshaw and Mickleson were just born with something extra in that category and I think the same is true for QB's.

I like Ryan because I think he has guts and is a gamer playing on a mediocre to lousy teams. However you may have a point about his touch. I hope he improves this season and I am certainly rooting for him to do so.

What about Hunt - anyone know is he is a pure passer?

 

[PhatOrange]

We keep talking about the wide outs the oline etc... but other than his lack of touch on the deep ball we dont discuss Ryan. The fact is that Ryan is a thrower not a passer. He lacks the gift meaning he lacks touch, lacks the feel of a passer, he just doesnt have it and im afraid never will. Ryan has a strong arm. He can throw a ball harder than most he just cant PASS . So many think that he is going to make the pros let me tell you not in a million years. Sure he will get drafted or go free agent. He might even fool his way onto a roster but he will never make it unless he develops touch which is something you either have or you dont and in my opinion he doesnt. It is like a shooter in Bball. Same thing. Gmac had it others like Triche work at it. Gmac is a pure shooter. Triche has good mechanics but he isnt a shooter. Same with Ryan good mechanics not a passer. As to bringing in the new kid the home run threat and bringing back Sales that is all great but at the end of the day Ryan will at best be pedestrian as he is a thrower and not a passer.

This coming from somebody who thinks that Dom Anene played great and should get meaningful minutes or who thinks Steve Rene is a terrible punt returner. You might as well write for rivals and hand out star ratings.

and you don't fool the NFL...

 

[orangepassion]

Though he's definitely missed some throws (who doesn't),he has generally played well when he's had time to throw-See Pinstripe Bowl.

 

[OrangeAl]

Are you throwing poop at the wall to see if it sticks or slides down?
Sure Ryan could have better touch. But he's our record-setting QB because he's throwing and the receivers are catching.

 

[Chip]

I don't want to delve into an argument, KC, but I think you're really off base here. He's made some really nice touch passes last season, and I really hope he can prove to the board he can hit the deep balls with an actual deep threat this season.

Also if JaMarcus Russell fooled the pro scouts into drafting him #1 (!) I think Nassib will "fool" the pro scouts because he's a good quarterback.

But the one point that stands is that outside of the perfect throw to Marcus Sales in the Pinstripe Bowl, I think he's 0 for the rest of his deep passes. And a large # of them were overthrown passes to a WR who had separation.

It's not a high percentage throw, but it's not one in a million either. He needs to hit more of them. And if he doesn't, then Sunday football won't be something he needs to think much about.

Really hoping he gets in a zone with it this year. Would make a world of difference for this offense that's dying for big plays.

 

[Millhouse]

i disagree with "you don't fool the nfl"

how many of you guys want your favorite NFL team to draft Nassib? be honest.

they draft 10-12 qbs every draft. lots of guys get thrown out for being too small by default.

 

[Ozcuse]

You don't need to fool the entire NFL, you only need to fool the Oakland Raiders.

 

[OrangeFoo]

If you don't have touch on your throws by the time you are you in your senior year of college what are the odds that you are going to learn it? At some point you are who you are and everything else is refinement. I tend to agree with kcsu... everything about Ryan is very robotic, from his passes, to his pocket awareness (or lack thereof), to when he decides to run or stay. Ryan has the tools but has seems to have very little feel for the game. It's a great debate tho, do you want someone with the tools who can hopefully learn how to get some feel for the game or someone who has the feel for the game but not the tools such as Ryan Fitzpatrick?

 

[billsin01]

I don't want to delve into an argument, KC, but I think you're really off base here. He's made some really nice touch passes last season, and I really hope he can prove to the board he can hit the deep balls with an actual deep threat this season.

Also if JaMarcus Russell fooled the pro scouts into drafting him #1 (!) I think Nassib will "fool" the pro scouts because he's a good quarterback.

Yeah, I tend to be agreement with this. I think there are a couple points that need to be made:

1) Nassib is a bit limited as a QB. It's OK to say that. He doesn't have terribly great feel/footwork in the pocket, struggles with deep balls, tends to put a bit too much mustard on some throws, isn't a big threat to scramble, etc.
But I'm not sure that makes him pedestrian, per se. He's still a big guy with decent mobility, a good arm and a good head on his shoulders. He's put up solid numbers despite being without a truly elite WR corps. And, while it's partly due to how conservative he is with the ball, he has generally been outstanding in regard to not throwing interceptions. It's not sexy but it's a really valuable skill, IMO, for a QB.

2) The pure passer vs. thrower criticism may be valid but I'm not sure it's all that relevant to what we need out of Nassib. If he can just find a way to hit on a couple deep balls and we get improvement around him -- OL, WR -- we should be OK on offense. I mean, I think the Gmac/Triche analogy is fine, but if Triche finds a way to shoot 38-40% next year, I'm not terribly concerned with whether or not he's a true shooter. If Nassib modestly improves his numbers from last season -- let's say 2,850 yds, 27 TDs, both very doable -- I'm not really sure we can complain. (Edit: I also wanted to point out that Nassib makes a lot of pretty tough throws. Yes, the deep ball is ugly and occasionally the slant is thrown to hard, but he throws a really nice ball in that intermediate 15-20 yard range, is aggressive throwing down the seam, has the arm strength to complete that deep out.)

3) I'm not sure where you get the idea that we don't discuss Nassib. I think every other thread during the fall last year was about how much he either sucked or was awesome. He's been a lightning rod on this board for three years.

 

[PhatOrange]

i disagree with "you don't fool the nfl"

how many of you guys want your favorite NFL team to draft Nassib? be honest.

they draft 10-12 qbs every draft. lots of guys get thrown out for being too small by default.

My comment was in response to this statement:

"Sure he will get drafted or go free agent. He might even fool his way onto a roster"

I just don't believe if you're an undrafted free agent looking to make a team that you fool yourself onto a roster.

 

[SUfanNC]

I think it could be very likely Ryan gets drafted. The NFL will draft a QB they see as a project if he has some skill set and they have seen improvement. Having a strong arm you can't teach but foot work, touch, reading progressions can. Look at Tim Tebow he was drafted in the first round as a QB and his skill set are way different than a traditional QB but Denver took a chance on him in hopes he could learn. Ryan isn't Tebow but I think it would be safe to say they are both projects.

 

[Ozcuse]

I think it could be very likely Ryan gets drafted. The NFL will draft a QB they see as a project if he has some skill set and they have seen improvement. Having a strong arm you can't teach but foot work, touch, reading progressions can. Look at Tim Tebow he was drafted in the first round as a QB and his skill set are way different than a traditional QB but Denver took a chance on him in hopes he could learn. Ryan isn't Tebow but I think it would be safe to say they are both projects.

Tebow won National Championships and was a media/fan darling. He made SEC defenses look stupid. No one outside of SU knows who Ryan Nassib is. To date, other than against WVU in 2011 and KSU in 2010 Nassib hasnt looked better than mediocre as a QB.

Unless Nassib has a breakout season where he leads the Big East in most passing categories AND finds ways to win, he is not sniffing the NFL. Quarterbacks on teams with bad offenses do not make the NFL.

 

[SUfanNC]

Tebow won National Championships and was a media/fan darling. He made SEC defenses look stupid. No one outside of SU knows who Ryan Nassib is. To date, other than against WVU in 2011 and KSU in 2010 Nassib hasnt looked better than mediocre as a QB.

Unless Nassib has a breakout season where he leads the Big East in most passing categories AND finds ways to win, he is not sniffing the NFL. Quarterbacks on teams with bad offenses do not make the NFL.

I unstand your NC argument but lets be honest SU and Fla aren't comparable these days. My point was comparing the two QB's.

 

[SUFan44]

You absolutely cannot learn feel for the position. Ryan has little to none. Even though the OL has been subpar, there have been many occasions where there is room to step up and he has not done so. And as many have already indicated, there have also been ample opportunities to hit a long ball to a WR with separation and he has not even come close and doesn't even give the WR a chance to make a play.

I am rooting for Ryan to have a chance in the NFL. My guess is that if he does get drafted, that means he had a pretty good year. And I think that if he has a pretty good year, we will have a very realistic chance of going to a bowl.

 

[BlueCurtain]

If a wideout has separation on a deep route, the QB needs to connect on at least 50% of those throws. Nassib is 1 for 86. That's a lot of touchdowns left on the board.

And how many 3rd and longs could have been extended if he had the sense not to move into the rush instead of away from it?

He looks good against Maine/Tulane but the reality is he returns to mediocrity against real competition.

 

[ImperialOrange]

To your point, Ryan just needs to learn that he doesn't need to rifle a full blast gunshot to a receiver running an 8 yard route. I mean sure it may have hit the receiver in the hands, but it hits their hands, slips through and bounces off their facemask.

take a little steam off those throws big fella.

This made me laugh because it reminds me of McNabb's first few years with the Eagles. The ball going through the WR's hands, off his chest or facemask, and then back out through his hands.

Sure Nassib could improve his touch on passes (and he may yet) but as my HS WR coach always told us "if you can even get your finger on the ball, you should catch it".

 

[SUfanNC]

There is alot to be said for a poor Oline. I'm not saying Ryan will get drafted but I guess I'm saying if there is any improvement in foot work or touch I think it is very possible.

As far as Oline issues just ask David Carr about getting your bell rung because of a bad Oline. I don't think after playing for Houston he was ever the same. That internal clock was way off. Forcing throws all over the place.

 

[kcsu]

Oh

This coming from somebody who thinks that Dom Anene played great and should get meaningful minutes or who thinks Steve Rene is a terrible punt returner. You might as well write for rivals and hand out star ratings.

and you don't fool the NFL...

Oh Phat i just knew that i could count on your for quality feedback. Well here we go. Anene is our fourth or fifth best LB, I think that Rene is a great punt catcher but i cant really comment on his return ability because i dont think he has actually ever RETURNED a punt. As to not fooling the NFL why dont we ask the geniuses that drafted Ryan L and Tony M or the Philips kid from Nebraska if they felt they might have been fooled. Thanks again for the quality feed back Phat keep em coming.