Shafer has his built in excuse

[CuseOnly]

I'll admit that based upon the ratings only, I was wrong [even if those ratings are patently goofy, in historical retrospect]. But I think it was pretty clear what I was implying, so allow me to rebut:

#1, you moved the goal posts to incorporate "on or about" logic. Based upon raw rankings alone, Skout only had three times when classes were ranked higher. One was the vastly overrated class of 2007, spearheaded by 4-star Andrey Baskin and Romale Tucker. So that rating is bunk. If you subtract them from the equation, since neither came close to playing a down, that rating drops precipitously. Another was at 49--BFD--and the other one was 13 years ago and a total outlier to the rest of the data.

#2, Rivals is the equivalent of Lindey's magazine in terms of credibility. So while it is not surprising that their rating for the class of 2015 was out of whack, it actually undermines your credibility to point to their ratings as a source of "truth."

I'm actually very surprised that 2.4.7 rated the class of 2014 higher than our class of 2015, because in general they tend to be better than the other recruiting services. But make no mistake: the offer lists of our prospects is an even better barometer, and at no time since the Coach P era have we begun to garner prospects with the same level of national caliber offers as in the class of 2015 [and 2016]. Anomander's point above is when you land good classes, good results follow. And he is 100% right. The class of 2015 was our best class in more than 15 years, bar none. They began demonstrating that last night, and they will continue to prove it throughout the year.

Classes like that help you turn the corner. Classes like 2007, 2005, etc. do not. The results on the field bear that out.

Pick at them all you want, but they are the rankings, that you were making your comment based upon, now you yourself are picking them apart.

1- I didn't set the goalposts in the first place, you did. Not the best class according to the rankings. Keep in mind that our ranking for this class included Marqise Blair, our highest rated recruit that didn't make it here either.

2- Your opinion of Rovals is irrelevant, they have rankings which I used to prove my point. I never used the word "truth" that I recall, ever in our conversations.

In any case, we are arguing for nothing. We both like this class, I liked it before and my thoughts were confirmed last night that they may be the best class. Just proves that the services and ranking are worthless IMO. This just proves what I already knew. I watched ALL their tapes, especially Fredericks and figured he would be a stud...and he is.

This class also shows that the staff has an eye for talent, including talent that can contribute right away as well as develop into program changers IMO. It is fun to watch.

 

[CuseOnly]

Okay, I don't think we're actually that far off. Not worth fighting over [let's go orange!].

But I do have to insist that qualitatively, there are several other data points which baseline the difference between the class of 2015 and the pond we were swimming in the previous decade plus. But I do acknowledge your point.

We aren't off very far. I actually like having an intelligent rambling discussion about ridiculous sports stuff on this board with a fellow fan.

 

[SWC75]

Rhode Island is terrible, one of the worst in FCS. Let's come back and chat after we see what they do vs Wake Forest.

Some highlights from last night's game:

 

[SWC75]

I'm sorry but I agree with very little in your post.

To think that this staff has very little "win now" pressure is grossly underestimating competitive nature of the game. Another 3-9 season firmly puts Shafer's rear in the hot seat. It hurts recruiting, it hurts fan support, and it places his job security firmly into dicey territory. I'd say that's a hell of a lot of pressure.

He had plenty of "built-in excuses" last year and yet many people wanted him fired then. If we have a lousy record this year, those people, (and there will be more of them), won't be accepting Hunt's injury as an excuse for failure.

 

[Chris02M]

i agree---and they were not very good against a very bad team

they were ok id expect improvement this week since from wk 1 to 2 usually teams improve the most and you cant replecate game action vs some other team

 

[Chris02M]

A lot of the things being said about Dungey were being said about AJ Long last year after the FSU game.

King Otto said it in another thread he started. Defense and running game will take us as far as we're gonna go.

only difference is dungey actually has d1 size and arm strength

 

[SWC75]

Actually it wasn't.

It was thought that the class was hastily put together so that the staff could focus on the 2016 class on this very board on the recruiting side.

There have been many threads dedicated to our recruiting ranking over the past 15 years. Will look up some posts for you and put them here.

i thought early commits mean that you're getting your top choices whereas a class that "takes longer", means you're filling out the roster with whomever you can get.

 

[SWC75]

View attachment 50559
According to Skoot, there have been 4 classes in the previous 13 years that were equal to or better than this class.
According to 2.4.7 last years class was better than this one.
According to Rovals there have been 8 classes in the previous 13 years that were better than this one.

Actual class ranks above, not relying on what you think was the better class.

I guess G-Rob was a great recruiter, especially with the crummy facilities we had back then.

 

[Phillymoose]

I'm confused by all the OL angst. I did not analyze the replay, but I did pay attention to the 'push' - and we won the territorial battle just about every time I paid attention. I don't take much meaning from it -- because of the level of competition, but it was not one of the things I came away from this game concerned about. Concerns include:

- completely untested secondary
- like ED, but very very thin at team's most important position
- still unsure of the offensive philosophy. (e.g. can't see the strategy of play calling yet)
- DL depth

 

[Alsacs]

I guess G-Rob was a great recruiter, especially with the crummy facilities we had back then.

The only thing he could do was recruit. He somehow got Delone Carter Mr. Ohio, Justin Pugh, Ryan Nassib, Arthur Jones, Chandler Jones, Alec Lemon, and Marcus Sales to commit.
Gerg could recruit but nothing more.

 

[Chip]

only difference is dungey actually has d1 size and arm strength

So this seems to be the theme. Which makes me wonder why we recruited Long. Or Wilson for that matter.

That may ultimately be the question that Coyle makes Shafer answer if this season completely tanks with a true freshman QB (again).

 

[cuseguy]

So this seems to be the theme. Which makes me wonder why we recruited Long. Or Wilson for that matter. That may ultimately be the question that Coyle makes Shafer answer if this season completely tanks with a true freshman QB (again).

We may have finally found a QB. But the staff failed over the last few years in that area.

 

[Finwad32]

So this seems to be the theme. Which makes me wonder why we recruited Long. Or Wilson for that matter.

That may ultimately be the question that Coyle makes Shafer answer if this season completely tanks with a true freshman QB (again).

I don't necessarily agree with the common sentiment in Long and Wilson, but, Wilson was a guy Marrone loved and Long was McDonald's baby. Kimble was Lester's.

 

[TheCusian]

I don't necessarily agree with the common sentiment in Long and Wilson, but, Wilson was a guy Marrone loved and Long was McDonald's baby. Kimble was Lester's.

As is Dungey

 

[anomander]

Omg you e

you criticized the players in this class possibly more than any other person on earth. I don't want to hear about recruiting rankings.

What are you talking about. Just because I don't go ga-ga over every single recruit we bring in doesn't mean I critical of the entire class. In fact I guarantee you there weren't more than 4 players in a 26 man recruiting class that I was negative about. I'm so positive in that fact that if you can go and prove that I was critical with more then 4 recruits I won't ever post again. Plus add to the fact 2 of the guys I WAS critical about Shafer ended up dropping from the class for the same damn reason I was critical (despite everyone's praise for uncovering those diamonds in the rough). You're so far up Shafer's a$$s any small criticism of him you take as a personal assault. So i'll talk about my recruiting rankings just as much as I damn well please, unless of course you can go back and prove your usual over the top claim about my criticism of last years recruiting class.

Go ahead, i'll be waiting. 4 recruits.[/QUOTE]


So how's that going, or should I just chalk it up as just another one of your over the top comments?

 

[kcsu]

What are you talking about. Just because I don't go ga-ga over every single recruit we bring in doesn't mean I critical of the entire class. In fact I guarantee you there weren't more than 4 players in a 26 man recruiting class that I was negative about. I'm so positive in that fact that if you can go and prove that I was critical with more then 4 recruits I won't ever post again. Plus add to the fact 2 of the guys I WAS critical about Shafer ended up dropping from the class for the same damn reason I was critical (despite everyone's praise for uncovering those diamonds in the rough). You're so far up Shafer's a$$s any small criticism of him you take as a personal assault. So i'll talk about my recruiting rankings just as much as I damn well please, unless of course you can go back and prove your usual over the top claim about my criticism of last years recruiting class.

Go ahead, i'll be waiting. 4 recruits.

So how's that going, or should I just chalk it up as just another one of your over the top comments?[/QUOTE]
I hope that we bring in 4-5 Jucos this year

 

[anomander]

So how's that going, or should I just chalk it up as just another one of your over the top comments?

I hope that we bring in 4-5 Jucos this year[/QUOTE]

Then I would be critical 4 or 5 teams unless it's someone like Jovon Durante. We're a developmental program I don't buy bringing in an under the radar JUCO so he could serve as a 2nd or 3rd string for 2 years.

 

[kcsu]

I hope that we bring in 4-5 Jucos this year

Then I would be critical 4 or 5 teams unless it's someone like Jovon Durante. We're a developmental program I don't buy bringing in an under the radar JUCO so he could serve as a 2nd or 3rd string for 2 years.[/QUOTE]
Ano you are one of my favorite posters im just busting your balls. I agree but im not as tough as you on Jucos as i believe that a couple a year in areas of need is a good thing. Enjoy the win and hope that Dungey is the real deal

 

[anomander]

Then I would be critical 4 or 5 teams unless it's someone like Jovon Durante. We're a developmental program I don't buy bringing in an under the radar JUCO so he could serve as a 2nd or 3rd string for 2 years.

Ano you are one of my favorite posters im just busting your balls. I agree but im not as tough as you on Jucos as i believe that a couple a year in areas of need is a good thing. Enjoy the win and hope that Dungey is the real deal[/QUOTE]

Hey man i'm absolutely thrilled with the win. I enjoyed every last second of it last night. It's been a while since we took someone behind the woodshed. I was thrilled with the all the youngsters making plays, and I was very impressed with what I saw from Dungey under the circumstance. I think he has the potential to be a very good quarterback. I just don't like being labeled as negative because I don't agree with every single recruit we bring in. I think i'm far from over the top negative, and when I am I express the reason I am. Sometimes maybe too strongly, but it is what it is.

 

[mantonio]

If this team can cobble together 4 wins out of the first six, they have a legit shot to go bowling. If they 5 out of the first six, I will guarantee a bowl berth!

 

[GoSU96]

The speed and wiggle I saw from Estime, Erv, And power/ wiggle/balance from Fredericks haven't been here in years. Strickland literally coasted in on his TD.

Those players showed skills that translate against better competition. Especially the first three.

Still not sold in the OL and wish we had a burner to stretch the D.

Speaking of D...i think our front 7 will be fine. There is size and speed to compete with our peers. Biggest issue to me are the corners.

I think they are going to play a ton of guys on defense. Try to keep them fresh and make up for experie

I'll admit that based upon the ratings only, I was wrong [even if those ratings are patently goofy, in historical retrospect]. But I think it was pretty clear what I was implying, so allow me to rebut:

#1, you moved the goal posts to incorporate "on or about" logic. Based upon raw rankings alone, Skout only had three times when classes were ranked higher. One was the vastly overrated class of 2007, spearheaded by 4-star Andrey Baskin and Romale Tucker. So that rating is bunk. If you subtract them from the equation, since neither came close to playing a down, that rating drops precipitously. Another was at 49--BFD--and the other one was 13 years ago and a total outlier to the rest of the data.

#2, Rivals is the equivalent of Lindey's magazine in terms of credibility. So while it is not surprising that their rating for the class of 2015 was out of whack, it actually undermines your credibility to point to their ratings as a source of "truth."

I'm actually very surprised that 2.4.7 rated the class of 2014 higher than our class of 2015, because in general they tend to be better than the other recruiting services. But make no mistake: the offer lists of our prospects is an even better barometer, and at no time since the Coach P era have we begun to garner prospects with the same level of national caliber offers as in the class of 2015 [and 2016], and the overall rating of each prospect in the class relative to other classes is better. Anomander's point above is when you land good classes, good results follow. And he is 100% right. The class of 2015 was our best class in more than 15 years, bar none. They began demonstrating that last night, and they will continue to prove it throughout the year.

Classes like that help you turn the corner. Classes like 2007, 2005, etc. do not. The results on the field bear that out.

The ranking of the 2009 class tells you all you need to know about that nonsense

 

[GoSU96]

The only thing he could do was recruit. He somehow got Delone Carter Mr. Ohio, Justin Pugh, Ryan Nassib, Arthur Jones, Chandler Jones, Alec Lemon, and Marcus Sales to commit.
Gerg could recruit but nothing more.

Arthur Jones was a P recruit. Giving Robinson credit for Chandler Jones you've listed 6 players in 5 classes, considering Pugh and Lemon were in Marrone's first class.

Whoop de damn doo.

 

[Alsacs]

Arthur Jones was a P recruit. Giving Robinson credit for Chandler Jones you've listed 6 players in 5 classes, considering Pugh and Lemon were in Marrone's first class.

Whoop de damn doo.

Just to be fair if Arthur is a P recruit then Pugh and Lemon are Robinson recruits. Arthur was here 2005-2009 and Pugh/Lemon were 2009-2012.

I don't think Robinson was special at recruiting but he did get a couple of impact players that helped Marrone. We had zero depth but a couple of impact guys. It was the opposite of how Marrone left it. Marrone left depth but not as much impact players.

 

[GoSU96]

Just to be fair if Arthur is a P recruit then Pugh and Lemon are Robinson recruits. Arthur was here 2005-2009 and Pugh/Lemon were 2009-2012.

I don't think Robinson was special at recruiting but he did get a couple of impact players that helped Marrone. We had zero depth but a couple of impact guys. It was the opposite of how Marrone left it. Marrone left depth but not as much impact players.

Isn't that exactly what I did? All I noted is that Pugh and Lemon were in the 5th class that Robinson had a hand in.

And in that class and the next Marrone added Chibane, Tiller, Hay, Mackey, and Hickey, which were more than Robinson did in 5 classes

 

[SWC75]

Reading this thread I'd hate to think what this board will be like after the first loss if we react this way to a 47-0 win.

 

[TheCusian]

Isn't that exactly what I did? All I noted is that Pugh and Lemon were in the 5th class that Robinson had a hand in. And in that class and the next Marrone added Chibane, Tiller, Hay, Mackey, and Hickey, which were more than Robinson did in 5 classes

He added good Oline players but whiffed on offensive skill players. He could scheme average skill players into great numbers.