So

[Ozcuse]

This MIGHT not be the best place to bring this up but what do you think of SU having an Iroquois warrior mascot race before football games?

Kinda like the Brewers do the sausage race and the Nationals have the racing Presidents- we could have Onondaga, Cayuga, Seneca, Mohawk, and Tuscarora chief mascots that run from end zone to end zone. Fun for the kids and educational!



Yeah, I'll show myself out...

 

[Todd Gack]

Thats great to hear. Good for you. I wasnt born on second. I'm a complete dip $ hit who graduated at the bottom of his HS class and who barely made it through college (OCC and Fredonia). Then I woke up and realized how to actually work, give a damn about work and life. I did and I'm a complete moron (see even I can call myself a name and laugh about it) These people who work hard and make $10 an hour need to look in the mirror and say What am I doing? My father changed careers at 45 with 3 kids, 2 in college. No excuses, just got it done.

Being a dipshit and being able to afford community college are non-exclusive.

 

[Eric15]

I agree. I just dont see the point. Find something else to spend your time on. (not you, them) Life is too short to piss and moan about something as ridiculous as a name.

But Marsh, I think part of your ambivalence towards not caring if people insult you for being Italian-American is because Italian-Americans are 100% fully assimilated into American society. Being Italian-American today doesn't put you at any type of competitive disadvantage - very few people today are prejudiced against you. If we were having this conversation in 1890 when Italians coming over on the boat faced all sorts of adversity, I bet you would HATE being called a wop, guinea, etc.

 

[Marsh01]

But Marsh, I think part of your ambivalence towards not caring if people insult you for being Italian-American is because Italian-Americans are 100% fully assimilated into American society. Being Italian-American today doesn't put you at any type of competitive disadvantage - very few people today are prejudiced against you. If we were having this conversation in 1890 when Italians coming over on the boat faced all sorts of adversity, I bet you would HATE being called a wop, guinea, etc.

fair point. I guess my point is that people can make mountains out of molehills over something that they dont control.

 

[xc84]

But Marsh, I think part of your ambivalence towards not caring if people insult you for being Italian-American is because Italian-Americans are 100% fully assimilated into American society. Being Italian-American today doesn't put you at any type of competitive disadvantage - very few people today are prejudiced against you. If we were having this conversation in 1890 when Italians coming over on the boat faced all sorts of adversity, I bet you would HATE being called a wop, guinea, etc.

I think Marsh would be in the minority on this one even given the assimilation you described. I think if someone named their teams "The WOPs" and had, as their mascot, a stereotype "Italian"... it would not get far.

 

[xc84]

fair point. I guess my point is that people can make mountains out of molehills over something that they dont control.

I think there is a misunderstanding about the "mountains". I think the owner of the Redskins should change the name for many of the proposed reasons. That's my opinion/viewpoint. Like most who have that opinion, I don't think that the owner should be legally forced to change the name. I think he has the legal right to keep it. It's not something I talk about except in forums like this when opinions are welcome and I don't lose any sleep over people disagreeing with me. That's still more of a molehill to me than a mountain.

 

[Todd Gack]

I think there is a misunderstanding about the "mountains". I think the owner of the Redskins should change the name for many of the proposed reasons. That's my opinion/viewpoint. Like most who have that opinion, I don't think that the owner should be legally forced to change the name. I think he has the legal right to keep it. It's not something I talk about except in forums like this when opinions are welcome and I don't lose any sleep over people disagreeing with me. That's still more of a molehill to me than a mountain.

There's no legal issue here. Just a matter of polite society.

 

[xc84]

There's no legal issue here. Just a matter of polite society.

I agree but I think some people equate an opinion that proposes a name change = forcing someone to change the name.

 

[Todd Gack]

I agree but I think some people equate an opinion that proposes a name change = forcing someone to change the name.

Then those people are idiots. No one forced Abe Pollin to change the "Bullets" to the "Wizards." He did it because he had a responsibility and honor. I can out-crass anyone on this board -- but I'm an admitted dipshit, and not a public figure. There's a "coolness" factor to the "get over it crowd." Good on them -- it'll pass, and it's certainly not dignified.

 

[RF2044]

There's no legal issue here. Just a matter of polite society.

More like a matter of a vocal minority doing their damndest to stamp out anything that can be perceived as even remotely offensive to anyone, no matter how small in numbers the offended group might be.

The Redskin example is extreme IMO, because it is clearly a derrogatory term, and has been for hundreds of years [this isn't just a once acceptable word no longer being acceptable language nuance, like the "negroes" or "colored" examples from earlier in this thread].

But in contemporary society, the politically correct absurdity extends well beyond such no brainer instances. I read this week about a military father who was barred from entering a school with his daughter here in Minnesota [a bastion of liberal ideals], after being told that men and women in uniform weren’t allowed because it may offend another student. School officials tried to CYA after the story broke last week by claiming that it was about preventing guns in school, but the guy was in uniform but reportedly not wering a firearm.

Last month, a girl was suspended for saying "god bless you" when somebody sneezed in class by an overzeaolus, offended teacher--and the school adminstration SUPPORTED the suspension.

How "polite" are either of those examples?

This crap isn't even sensible anymore--not by any reasonable standard. And it's a function of the politically correct environment we live in where its okay to obnoxiously repudiate / be overtly discriminatory against anything perceived as being remotely offensive to anyone. So with all due respect, while I might happen to agree with you about the specific Redskins example, I think that the trend is in the main quite negative.

 

[Todd Gack]

More like a matter of a vocal minority doing their damndest to stamp out anything that can be perceived as even remotely offensive to anyone, no matter how small in number. The Redskin example is extreme IMO, because it is clearly a derrogatory term. But in contemporary society, the politically correct absurdity extends well beyond such no brainer instances. I read this week about a military father who was barred from entering a school with his daughter here in Minnesota [a bastion of liberal ideals], after being told that men and women in uniform weren’t allowed because it may offend another student. Last month, a girl was suspended for saying "god bless you" when somebody sneezed in class by an overzeaolus, offended teacher--and the school adminstration SUPPORTED it. How "polite" are either of those examples? This crap isn't even sensible anymore--not by any reasonable standard. And it's a funcction of the politically correct environment we live in where its okay to be overtly discriminatory toward anything perceived as being remotely offensive to anyone. So with all due respect, while I might happen to agree with you about the specific Redskins example, I think that the trend is in the main quite negative.

I didn't read all of this -- but gathered as much: Let's put some stark lines around what is acceptable and not -- and all of the stuff in the middle is . I'd sign up for that.

 

[MSOrange]

More like a matter of a vocal minority doing their damndest to stamp out anything that can be perceived as even remotely offensive to anyone, no matter how small in number.

The Redskin example is extreme IMO, because it is clearly a derrogatory term. But in contemporary society, the politically correct absurdity extends well beyond such no brainer instances. I read this week about a military father who was barred from entering a school with his daughter here in Minnesota [a bastion of liberal ideals], after being told that men and women in uniform weren’t allowed because it may offend another student. School officials tried to CYA after the story broke last week by claiming that it was about preventing guns in school, but the guy was in uniform but reportedly not wering a firearm.

Last month, a girl was suspended for saying "god bless you" when somebody sneezed in class by an overzeaolus, offended teacher--and the school adminstration SUPPORTED the suspension.

How "polite" are either of those examples?

This crap isn't even sensible anymore--not by any reasonable standard. And it's a funcction of the politically correct environment we live in where its okay to obnoxiously repudiate / be overtly discriminatory against anything perceived as being remotely offensive to anyone. So with all due respect, while I might happen to agree with you about the specific Redskins example, I think that the trend is in the main quite negative.

Wow! I hadn't heard those stories. Unfreaking real. It''s like me being in a wheelchair. I don't care if people call me handicapped, the guy in the wheelchair, disabled or whatever. I know who I am and what my capabilities are and have better things to do than worry about something like that.

Incidentally, I agree with you about the Redskins based on what I have read about their original owner and his racial attitudes and how it appears the name came about.

 

[RF2044]

Wow! I hadn't heard those stories. Unfreaking real. It''s like me being in a wheelchair. I don't care if people call me handicapped, the guy in the wheelchair, disabled or whatever. I know who I am and what my capabilities are and have better things to do than worry about something like that.

Incidentally, I agree with you about the Redskins based on what I have read about their original owner and his racial attitudes and how it appears the name came about.

Don't take my word for it--look those stories up and form your own conclusions. I'm not embellishing them to make a point here--those things actually happened in the last two weeks.

 

[DeGrozz]

Would you shrug your shoulders if someone called your daughter the "c-word" -- which was originally a clinical term for "vagina"?

Is that really the same thing though? In today's society, the dirty c word is almost exclusively used to degrade women while the term Redskin is almost exclusively used in athletics/mascots.

As for whether it should be changed, it's a private organization. They can call themselves whatever they want.

edit: I should add though, I think I would pick a more tactful name if it was my franchise.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

like the Browns???

Yes, but singular. Like the university but with a "The" at the beginning.

 

[SUtyger]

In response to SUtyger:

Awesome slogan for high school football players -- and thoughtless people generally. Should they not hold a door open for a woman -- or wait until she earns their respect? Should I think the cop who pulled me over is doing their job -- or wait until she earns my respect? The world would be a whole lot worse if we treated each other like bumper stickers.

In response to someone throwing a fit over someone calling them by a name they specifically didn't asked to be called but is a screen name, whilst mentioning that their given name was Thaddeus. I deemed that the slogan fit.

And in response to your questions, you respect the badge of the officer not the person that pulled you over. You hold a door for a woman not because of the woman, but as a gentleman it is the respectful thing to do. To hold the door for anyone isn't a sign of respect, it is a sign of courtesy. Two very different things. And the world could be a whole lot better if we treated people like bumper stickers. It depends on the bumper sticker that you treat someone like. Are you a stuff happens kind of bumper stick or a do to others whatever you would like them to do to you kind of bumper sticker.

 

[MSOrange]

Don't take my word for it--look those stories up and form your own conclusions. I'm not embellishing them to make a point here--those things actually happened in the last two weeks.

Yep I did a google search on both stories before I responded because it sounded too crazy even though I had no reason to doubt you. As far as the military uniform, our high school had ROTC. How the heck do they handle that these days if it's so apparently offensive?

 

[Todd Gack]

... while the term Redskin is almost exclusively used in athletics/mascots.

There aren't that many because they were exterminated! By us.

 

[RF2044]

Yes, but singular. Like the university but with a "The" at the beginning.

New Zealand has a world famous rugby team nicknamed the All Blacks. It refers to the monochromatic color of the uniforms, and has nothing to do with any racial connotation, but in our country I'm sure it wouldn't fly.

 

[Todd Gack]

In response to someone throwing a fit over someone calling them by a name they specifically didn't asked to be called but is a screen name, whilst mentioning that their given name was Thaddeus. I deemed that the slogan fit. And in response to your questions, you respect the badge of the officer not the person that pulled you over. You hold a door for a woman not because of the woman, but as a gentleman it is the respectful thing to do. To hold the door for anyone isn't a sign of respect, it is a sign of courtesy. Two very different things. And the world could be a whole lot better if we treated people like bumper stickers. It depends on the bumper sticker that you treat someone like. Are you a stuff happens kind of bumper stick or a do to others whatever you would like them to do to you kind of bumper sticker.

And just when I thought the day was winding down. My name is not Thaddeus, nor Todd. (Call me whatever you like, just not late for dinner ... am I right?) I was simply trying to make the point that you should call people what they want to be called. About the we respect "the badge" and not the person argument -- then GWB and Obama would have 100% approval ratings. Neither deserve it. And you're right about the respect/courtesy line -- I try and live my life so they blend. Have a good one.

 

[SUtyger]

New Zealand has a world famous rugby team nicknamed the All Blacks. It refers to the monochromatic color of the uniforms, and has nothing to do with any racial connotation, but in our country I'm sure it wouldn't fly.

How about the new Burger King Kuro Burger debuting in Japan.
FYI Kuro means black in Japanese.

 

[cuseincincy]

Trojans Ok, Spartans Ok. Good thing there's no teams called the Romans. Why can't people have a sense of humor or at least some tolerance. As my avatar shows I'm bald. I would prefer if everyone else would wear hats because it offends me when I see someone with a nice head of hair. If everyone wore hats I would not feel so ostracized (you should see the stares I get sometimes, makes me feel bad). Tolerance, humor...a better way to go through life. Be proud of your heritage, not insulted by it.

 

[SU2NASA]

It's not. I urge all the "this is a made-up issue" people to read Charles Krauthammer's take on "Redskins." I think the guy is a grade-A , generally, but he's right on this -- whether you think the term is racist or not, it's certainly in-artful. We don't call people "negroes" anymore, and we're slowly wising up to calling people " ed."

If I ask you to call me "Todd" (even though my birth name is "Thaddeus") it's disrespectful not to.

EDIT: Here it is: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...b11eee-374f-11e3-ae46-e4248e75c8ea_story.html

A snippet:

"Why? Simple decency. I wouldn’t want to use a word that defines a people — living or dead, offended or not — in a most demeaning way. It’s a question not of who or how many had their feelings hurt, but of whether you want to associate yourself with a word that, for whatever historical reason having nothing to do with you, carries inherently derogatory connotations.

"Years ago, the word ' ed' emerged as the enlightened substitute for such cruel terms as 'feeble-minded' or 'mongoloid.' Today, however, it is considered a form of denigration, having been replaced by the clumsy but now conventional 'developmentally disabled.' There is no particular logic to this evolution. But it’s a social fact. Unless you’re looking to give gratuitous offense, you don’t call someone ' ed.'"

Bill, I've had enough of your nonsense.

 

[Crusty]

Could someone explain why "Saltine Warriors" is so offensive?

It upsets the Keebler elves.

 

[Halfmooncuse]

The most discriminated group today are obese people. So we need an appropriate nickname. Buffalo Blobs. Pittsburg Plumps.