sorry but coaching is a problem

[OrangeZeus]

You're a Pitt grad? Sorry to hear that. I'll try not to use big words with you just messing with you...

Soon-to-be Pitt grad, so I've had to put up with Stallings these last two seasons. I may have went to Syracuse had my acceptance not gone to my spam folder that I didn't check until it was too late. Regardless, I bleed orange basketball and rep my Tyler Ennis jersey in the zoo when Syracuse comes to town just to add salt to the wound.

 

[Jasoncuse]

There is one major issue for me. I am in agreement with the position that there isn’t that much JB can do with these guys. Pretty much have to go all ISO/driving and hope for the best. Get fouled, assists are going to be way down, etc. But, by now, this team shouldn’t look so clueless on offense. With the playbook scrapped beyond a high ball screen with Chukwu; it still looks so chaotic out there. So much wasted time, indecisiveness, etc. By now one would think they would be adjusting a little better. They are seeing most M2M defenses play them the same way.

There was a short stretch, and I mean short, a few games back where we actually got a few 15-18 footers for Oshae/Marek that were wide open and they hit them. There's no reason why we can structure some plays to get those shots, or something for Moyer flashing to the rim. Other teams with limited offensive threats still run plays to get good shots. Why can't we run something? It doesn't have to be iso for Frank or Tyus on every single possession. It's grating to watch this insanity over and over without ever trying to do something else. People give Tyus so much crap for what they call "hero ball", which is absurd. The kid is doing the only thing the coaches are allowing him and Frank to do offensively. These guys can only do so much and only be so efficient in that.

 

[SoBeCuse]

There are so many issues right now. I agree that coaching is one of them, but doesn't necessarily have to be one next year. JB has his system and if the pieces are there, it'll be successful. If not, he needs to do more.

He can't keep running pick and rolls with Chukwu, having an offense where everybody stands around, a defense that can be carved up when teams actively attack, etc. I don't have the solutions, but I know that doing the same things over and over are problematic.

I’m definitely not sure but since we are seeing it more every game, I think the standing around is by design. I mean why else would it be happening so much at this stage of the season except for a fatigue issue. He has so little trust in Moyer/Dolezaj so the offense is simply give the ball to those three, drive, and hope for the best. We end up with a lot of jacked and bad shots because there is no secondary strategy or scheme built in. Maybe he tries to integrate Moyer/Marek in practice and it isn’t happening. I guess Moyer needs to “find his spots” to be a garbage guy but that isn’t happening either. Maybe his foot still hurts.

 

[chugg21]

There is a reason that just about every coaching legend get pushed out against their will when they reach their 70s...

 

[Fly Rodder]

There was a short stretch, and I mean short, a few games back where we actually got a few 15-18 footers for Oshae/Marek that were wide open and they hit them. There's no reason why we can structure some plays to get those shots, or something for Moyer flashing to the rim. Other teams with limited offensive threats still run plays to get good shots. Why can't we run something? It doesn't have to be iso for Frank or Tyus on every single possession. It's grating to watch this insanity over and over without ever trying to do something else. People give Tyus so much crap for what they call "hero ball", which is absurd. The kid is doing the only thing the coaches are allowing him and Frank to do offensively. These guys can only do so much and only be so efficient in that.

A HOF coach should be able to make some chicken salad out of chicken ish every now and again. The guy has 40+ years of outstanding experience. Every D-1 player should be able to make a lightly contested lay-up when in position to do so, and these guys are barely being guarded. They don't need to have the offense run through them, but jeez other teams do more with a lot less talent. I don't think anyone is expecting Marek or Chukwu to turn into a 15 ppg player, but 8 maybe? JAB has potentially three NBA-level players on this team. Yes, there have been injuries and some are not as skilled as people hope, but the performance on the court looks like a Y pickup game at times.

 

[81South]

jimmy was never one to play all of his cards, but this season he has no other cards to play.

 

[AZOrange]

If people cant watch a game and see what adjustments were made then thats on them.. we didnt even play the same D the 2nd half at all.

It was the same in that it was bad.

 

[AZOrange]

A HOF coach should be able to make some chicken salad out of chicken ish every now and again. The guy has 40+ years of outstanding experience. Every D-1 player should be able to make a lightly contested lay-up when in position to do so, and these guys are barely being guarded. They don't need to have the offense run through them, but jeez other teams do more with a lot less talent. I don't think anyone is expecting Marek or Chukwu to turn into a 15 ppg player, but 8 maybe? JAB has potentially three NBA-level players on this team. Yes, there have been injuries and some are not as skilled as people hope, but the performance on the court looks like a Y pickup game at times.

I’m disturbed mostly by the lack of fundamentals that rears it’s ugly head here a lot. Our guys don’t look like basketball players.

 

[81South]

watching the same stuff all year, zero adjustments other than slapping on a desperation press when we're down double digits in 2nd half. roster is shorthanded but shouldnt be this bad

keep running the pick and roll with chukwu. keep daring teams to shoot 3s. its working out so well. painful to watch. i miss syracuse basketball. 4 straight bubble teams, ugh.

Sorry I can’t help myself. I need comic relief from this season.

 

[Jasoncuse]

I don't think playing for JB is the reason MCW, Ennis, Grant, McCullough, Malachi, and Lydon left. MCW went to the final four and didn't have much more to prove. Ennis led us to a 25-0 start and wasn't expected to be a one-and-done player, but performed well enough to get drafted in the first round. Grant was tabbed as a first rounder as well in 2014, but slipped, so maybe he should have returned, but that's easy to say in hindsight. McCullough was alays going to be a one and done. Malachi had a great run on the way to the final four where he got good national exposure. Lydon was ranked what, like 75th in his high school class? In two years he parlayed that into being drafted 24th and probably would have been drafted around 24th as a freshman as well. Coming back wouldn't have improved his stock much.

Why players stay at UNC, I'm not quite sure. Maybe part of it is due to some of their guys underachieving early (James Michael McAdoo) or peaking late (Brice Johnson). If a guy like McAdoo lives up to his hype, I doubt he sticks around for 3 years.

I don't blame any of them for going pro when they did. Other than maybe Jeremi, they all left at the peak of their value. Ennis was never going to be higher. McCullough was never staying more than 1 year. Malachi probably could have returned and improved his stock, but as we're seeing with Tyus, that may have worked against him. He was also already 20 when he left, so another year older drops his perceived value. Lydon could've gone after his freshman year and probably been drafted early 2nd or so. Staying another year helped him get guaranteed money and I'm guessing like Mali, his stock would only go down staying another year. He was also 20.

The UNC guys that stay don't seem to be NBA type players in terms of size or athleticism, or simply hadn't done enough to be NBA draft picks. Paige and Berry didn't have the size, Meeks and Hicks were undersized 5's. Justin Jackson was a sub 30% 3pt shooter his first two seasons before blowing up last year and leaving a year early as a result. Brice Johnson staying 4 years is the only surprise to me. He had the athleticism to go early, with similar numbers to Grant as a soph. McAdoo staying a 3rd year was also a bit of a surprise as he had a good sophomore year.

Luke Maye will stay 4 years because he doesn't have the size or athleticism. We don't recruit players like him...6'7" without the length/athleticism. I wish we did because these are the types of players that you need to win in college basketball in this day and age.

Tony Bradley left last year after his first year last year. JP Tokoto left after his junior year despite not being very productive. Reggie Bullock left after his junior year, which was when he finally put it together.

Our guys also play big minutes early. Getting that early exposure and looking like good players enables them to parlay that into getting draft after 1 or 2 seasons. The UNC guys mostly have to bide their time for a few years before becoming main options. I think that plays a huge factor into this as well.

 

[Fly Rodder]

We don't recruit players like him...6'7" without the length/athleticism. I wish we did because these are the types of players that you need to win in college basketball in this day and age.

Moneyball is old news nowadays, but one of the key things was that teams would virtually ignore prospects that didn't look like a ballplayer (e.g., they were too fat or too short or not "whippy" enough). Syracuse more often than not recruits players that look like NBA basketball players: long and lean with great height for the position, but they're not necessarily good basketball players. Of course every coach would love to NBA bodies with NBA skills, but there's a reason there's only a handful of them every year and invariably they go to UK or Duke, or Kansas. Because JAB is a system-orientated coach, IMO he prefers to teach his system to the players with the right body and hope they can develop some basketball skill. However, when they do, they're usually gone to the NBA ASAP.

But sometimes, I'd love to get some kids who have the skillset even if they're just a 6'7" PF for four years.

 

[PhatOrange]

JB has gotten all anyone could ever get out of this team. Severely limited 2 juniors (1 who hasn't played in 2 years), 1 soph and what amounts to 3 freshman. 6 guys at this point and not much ready now talent.

He just wants to get this season over imo.

 

[manleyzoo]

All these reasons for our decline the last four years aren't reasons, they're excuses. In his pressers, Boeheim lists the excuses one after another. Like everything else it all starts at the top. When you've got real reasons you adjust to the hand you've got. When all you have is excuses you don't change. Our guy doesn't change.

 

[Jasoncuse]

I’m definitely not sure but since we are seeing it more every game, I think the standing around is by design. I mean why else would it be happening so much at this stage of the season except for a fatigue issue. He has so little trust in Moyer/Dolezaj so the offense is simply give the ball to those three, drive, and hope for the best. We end up with a lot of jacked and bad shots because there is no secondary strategy or scheme built in. Maybe he tries to integrate Moyer/Marek in practice and it isn’t happening. I guess Moyer needs to “find his spots” to be a garbage guy but that isn’t happening either. Maybe his foot still hurts.

Maybe, but we've seen it all year and for the past handful of years. It definitely is the plan and I know it's not changing, no matter how much I wish it would. I guess recruiting projects and kids without offensive skills has it's disadvantages...who knew?!?

I love Moyer's passion, but man, he has no ability and very little quickness. His footwork is terrible and he just doesn't move laterally well at all. Is he a Syracuse Center in a forward body? He's get up well when going straight up, but I think he struggles to cover any ground quickly on the perimeter. I just don't know what to expect about him for 3 more years; does he have the ability to make up for his deficiencies? He looks like the type that would do much better at a mid-major, maybe an Ohio or Toledo type. We'll see.

 

[Jasoncuse]

There is a reason that just about every coaching legend get pushed out against their will when they reach their 70s...

What coaches are actually coaching at 70...let alone 73 or, gasp, 77? This is uncharted territory. JB will be the oldest D1 coach ever this time next year (John Chaney was 74 and a few months when he retired).

 

[SoBeCuse]

Maybe, but we've seen it all year and for the past handful of years. It definitely is the plan and I know it's not changing, no matter how much I wish it would. I guess recruiting projects and kids without offensive skills has it's disadvantages...who knew?!?

I love Moyer's passion, but man, he has no ability and very little quickness. His footwork is terrible and he just doesn't move laterally well at all. Is he a Syracuse Center in a forward body? He's get up well when going straight up, but I think he struggles to cover any ground quickly on the perimeter. I just don't know what to expect about him for 3 more years; does he have the ability to make up for his deficiencies? He looks like the type that would do much better at a mid-major, maybe an Ohio or Toledo type. We'll see.

Yeah, Moyer, is going to need a ton of work. Just don’t see it. Doesn’t look anything like the NEPSAC player who was mostly great against good competition. Looks like another Kaleb miss, frankly.

 

[chugg21]

What coaches are actually coaching at 70...let alone 73 or, gasp, 77? This is uncharted territory. JB will be the oldest D1 coach ever this time next year (John Chaney was 74 and a few months when he retired).

No kidding. Usually things start to go sideways in their late 60s like Gary Williams and they get ushered out. I suppose that Bobby Bowden is as close to an example as possible. Figurehead guy that built a program and stayed a little too long and had to have a rough exit.

 

[Jasoncuse]

I’m disturbed mostly by the lack of fundamentals that rears it’s ugly head here a lot. Our guys don’t look like basketball players.

I've never seen a team pick up their dribble 30 feet from the basket like ours does. The inability to dribble, avoid getting stripped, make layups, etc...it's all high school stuff. I've wanted us to recruit more actual skilled basketball players for YEARS now. Skill over size, as it is. Instead we go length over skill and even athleticism at times.

 

[Owens guy]

One thing people don't like to think about, and rarely say on here, is that a significant reason for the depleted rosters due to early departures is because of JB. Even if Tyus Battle was considering coming back for his junior season, do you really think he would want to come back to play zone and get yelled at by a 74 year old man? I don't get why so many people are shocked when guys like MCW, Ennis, Grant, McCullough, Malachi, Lydon, and soon to be Battle, leave early. While draft-able guys stay at UNC 3-4 years.

Could this just a generational thing? Millennials are known not to take criticism well and JB obviously will get in your face when you mess up.

Here in Minnesota with the TWolves, Coach Thibodou has had issues communicating and motivating Andrew Wiggins and Karl Anthony Towns with his yelling and direct criticism toward them. While Tibs gets along great with Jimmy Butler who has an old school attitude and great work ethic. Tibs worked for many years with Coach K and JB with USA basketball and follows the yell/direct approach but many of his critics wonder if that method works well with today's young players. Many SU needs to do more research when recruiting into which players can handle being told when they screw up and that they aren't the next Lebron.

 

[OrangeDW]

A HOF coach should be able to make some chicken salad out of chicken ish every now and again. The guy has 40+ years of outstanding experience. Every D-1 player should be able to make a lightly contested lay-up when in position to do so, and these guys are barely being guarded. They don't need to have the offense run through them, but jeez other teams do more with a lot less talent. I don't think anyone is expecting Marek or Chukwu to turn into a 15 ppg player, but 8 maybe? JAB has potentially three NBA-level players on this team. Yes, there have been injuries and some are not as skilled as people hope, but the performance on the court looks like a Y pickup game at times.

8 ppg for Moyer? As a freshman? I just don’t think that’s realistic at all. We realize John Wallace averaged 11 as a freshman? Hakim Warrick averaged like 6.

 

[Fly Rodder]

8 ppg for [Marek]? As a freshman? I just don’t think that’s realistic at all. We realize John Wallace averaged 11 as a freshman? Hakim Warrick averaged like 6.

Yeah, 8 is tough, but Chukwu is a RS Jr. Warrick played 15 mpg as a frosh and took 5 fga per game. Marek is getting nearly 30 mpg in conference and taking a little more than 3.

Warrick and Wallace were probably guarded and, besides, they all had the same coach and that's the point. Throwing up his hands and saying, nothing can be done isn't really a good option when teams do run plays for players to get open looks. Opposing teams know that Marek/Moyer/Chukwu aren't going to get the ball so they sag off them. A HOF coach can't run a few plays a game to take advantage of that?

 

[two3zone]

8 ppg for Moyer? As a freshman? I just don’t think that’s realistic at all. We realize John Wallace averaged 11 as a freshman? Hakim Warrick averaged like 6.

How many minutes did they play and who were they surrounded by? We have issues scoring the ball and plenty of opportunity to step up.

Who cares what a couple of guys did in early 2000s and 1990s.

 

[OrangeDW]

How many minutes did they play and who were they surrounded by? We have issues scoring the ball and plenty of opportunity to step up.

Who cares what a couple of guys did in early 2000s and 1990s.

Wallace played 29 mpg on a 20-9(10-8) in a down BE team. Warrick - 17 mpg on an NIT team.

Point is those were two studs. Wallace was a top 25 recruit. 8 ppg out of a freshman forward isn’t that easy. Marek and Moyer are not 8 ppg as freshmen guys, regardless of coaching, system, etc.

 

[AZOrange]

I've never seen a team pick up their dribble 30 feet from the basket like ours does. The inability to dribble, avoid getting stripped, make layups, etc...it's all high school stuff. I've wanted us to recruit more actual skilled basketball players for YEARS now. Skill over size, as it is. Instead we go length over skill and even athleticism at times.

It’s insane. How about executing a dribble handoff? We fumble it away nearly 99 percent of the time

 

[Fly Rodder]

Wallace played 29 mpg on a 20-9(10-8) in a down BE team. Warrick - 17 mpg on an NIT team.

Point is those were two studs. Wallace was a top 25 recruit. 8 ppg out of a freshman forward isn’t that easy. Marek and Moyer are not 8 ppg as freshmen guys, regardless of coaching, system, etc.

How about Chukwu?