Starting Lineup

[jarandle9]

With a much deeper roster this year, what do you guys think the starting will look like? We have a lot of flexibility and options about who could start in our frontcourt especially.

I think it'll look something like this:
PG: Tyler Ennis
SG: Mike G
SF: Cj Fair
PF: Rak
C: DC2
I think Boeheim will bring Jerami off the bench in a 6th man role like with Dion and James, but we'll see.

 

[gilardino]

PG: ennis
SG: Mike G
SF: CJ
PF: Grant
C: Rak

 

[orangefan13]

PG: Tyler Ennis
SG: Mike G
SF: Cj Fair
PF: Rak
C: DC2

agree with that lineup although I would rather see Dajuan come off the bench and be the 6th man and who knows
Keita and Rak could draw a foul or two on their backline before Dajuan gets out there.
But, I don't see that happening as I wouldn't put stock in Gbinijes scoring ability without a screen or motion which we are
less likely to see the first few minutes. And Cooney won't be a true 2nd scoring option this year.

I can't see 2 bigs not starting as Rak is a JR and Keita a Senior compared to soph and fresh Grant/Roberson. JB will
sacrifice the first few minutes to make that happen.

I think Cooney should get nearly all his minutes with Ennis and Dajuan. A post up outlet passer with a drive and kick
passer are whats best for Cooney as a spot up shooter. BJ or Ron may be a better true scorer then Gbinije and Cooney.

 

[orange2win]

Starting Line-up?

To be firmed up in Canada in two weeks time.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Starting Line-up?

To be firmed up in Canada in two weeks time.

Cooney starts, IMO

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

 

[RF2044]

Cooney starts, IMO

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

Cooney comes off bench, but plays an important role as the team's third guard.

 

[RF2044]

With a much deeper roster this year, what do you guys think the starting will look like? We have a lot of flexibility and options about who could start in our frontcourt especially.

I think it'll look something like this:
PG: Tyler Ennis
SG: Mike G
SF: Cj Fair
PF: Rak
C: DC2
I think Boeheim will bring Jerami off the bench in a 6th man role like with Dion and James, but we'll see.

I think that is correct. Grant will play starter's minutes, continuing the trend of JB having the luxury of bringing a talented scorer off of the bench.

A lot is going to depend on DC and Rak, and the respective improvement each player made this offseason. But my expectation is that we'll continue to start a "jumbo" lineup with two bigs, with one of them rotating out depending on matchups, who's playing better, etc. Lots of frontcourt options / versatility this year. In fact, we've got impressive depth in the second unit overall--if we go with the starting lineup you specify, then here's what we've got in reserve:

G--Cooney
G--Patterson
-Grant
-Roberson
C--Keita

...with Patterson likely being the 10th man in what will primarily be a 9-player rotation.

The biggest issue facing the team is lack of backcourt experience. Shooting will also be an issue until proven otherwise.

 

[edowd26]

With a much deeper roster this year, what do you guys think the starting will look like? We have a lot of flexibility and options about who could start in our frontcourt especially.

I think it'll look something like this:
PG: Tyler Ennis
SG: Mike G
SF: Cj Fair
PF: Rak
C: DC2
I think Boeheim will bring Jerami off the bench in a 6th man role like with Dion and James, but we'll see.

I agree with this.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Cooney comes off bench, but plays an important role as the team's third guard.

You are talking a guy that played a role on the Final Four team vs a guy who couldn't get off the bench at Duke.

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

 

[RF2044]

You are talking a guy that played a role on the Final Four team vs a guy who couldn't get off the bench at Duke.

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

No, I'm talking about a guy who was a top 25 caliber recruit, who reportedly had a fantastic offseason [per Mike Waters] versus a top 75 recruit.

Your characterization is, at best, poor. And I'm a big Cooney fan. Hope that they are both phenomenal and shoot the lights out these next three years.

 

[cusetown1]

You are talking a guy that played a role on the Final Four team vs a guy who couldn't get off the bench at Duke.

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

G starts.

 

[newmexicuse]

I say:

PG - Ennis
2G - Mike G - if he can't beat out Trevor we are in deep doo doo at the two.
C - DC2 - if he can't improve enough to start we will once again be a dunkin donut team with a gaping hole at the 5 (at least on O).
PF - Jerami
SF - Geez, do you think BJ can beat out CJ - LOL !!!

Anyways, can't everybody get the notion of Rak playing at the 4 out of their head ? He is clearly inept as a PF, and at this level his game is much more suitable the 5 spot. Now again, I am talking about what should happen assuming Jimmy stops with the stupid token starter idea.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

You are talking a guy that played a role on the Final Four team vs a guy who couldn't get off the bench at Duke.

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

That's a fascinating way to describe it.

 

[OttoMets]

I think that is correct. Grant will play starter's minutes, continuing the trend of JB having the luxury of bringing a talented scorer off of the bench.

A lot is going to depend on DC and Rak, and the respective improvement each player made this offseason. But my expectation is that we'll continue to start a "jumbo" lineup with two bigs, with one of them rotating out depending on matchups, who's playing better, etc. Lots of frontcourt options / versatility this year. In fact, we've got impressive depth in the second unit overall--if we go with the starting lineup you specify, then here's what we've got in reserve:

G--Cooney
G--Patterson
-Grant
-Roberson
C--Keita

...with Patterson likely being the 10th man in what will primarily be a 9-player rotation.

The biggest issue facing the team is lack of backcourt experience. Shooting will also be an issue until proven otherwise.

These two concerns are why I feel Cooney is the favorite to start.

But the rest makes sense. Would be great to give Rakeem another chance to show what he can do at the four (maybe even for a complete season this time?) and play the big lineup until we need to shuffle and get Grant onto the court. I think he and Gbinije will play heavy minutes as 6th and 7th men (like Joseph and Jardine four years ago).

 

[OttoMets]

I say:

PG - Ennis
2G - Mike G - if he can't beat out Trevor we are in deep doo doo at the two.
C - DC2 - if he can't improve enough to start we will once again be a dunkin donut team with a gaping hole at the 5 (at least on O).
PF - Jerami
SF - Geez, do you think BJ can beat out CJ - LOL !!!

Anyways, can't everybody get the notion of Rak playing at the 4 out of their head ? He is clearly inept as a PF, and at this level his game is much more suitable the 5 spot. Now again, I am talking about what should happen assuming Jimmy stops with the stupid token starter idea.

That's not clear to a number of us (least of all that Hall of Fame coach to whom everyone here likes to defer). The only thing that's kept Christmas from being a full-time four has been the inability of our starting center (for academic, injury, or defensive reasons) to keep himself on the floor for two seasons.

 

[newmexicuse]

That's not clear to a number of us (least of all that Hall of Fame coach to whom everyone here likes to defer). The only thing that's kept Christmas from being a full-time four has been the inability of our starting center (for academic, injury, or defensive reasons) to keep himself on the floor for two seasons.

It should be clear. Rak has ZERO O skills from the 4 spot & not great O skills from the 5 spot. His D as a PF is questionable , except that he adds shot-blocking. However, his ability to get out to the trey line or to stay with a man who is driving is well below the skills that Jerami showed at the four. If, in the unlikely case, Rak can get to the next level it will have to be at the four since he lacks NBA 5 size. That is no reason to make believe he can actually play the four at this or any other level.

 

[OttoMets]

It should be clear. Rak has ZERO O skills from the 4 spot & not great O skills from the 5 spot. His D as a PF is questionable , except that he adds shot-blocking. However, his ability to get out to the trey line or to stay with a man who is driving is well below the skills that Jerami showed at the four. If, in the unlikely case, Rak can get to the next level it will have to be at the four since he lacks NBA 5 size. That is no reason to make believe he can actually play the four at this or any other level.

You're right about the NBA bit. And we'd probably agree that that's not the best reason to play him at that position now, where we'd all rather put guys in a position to win games for SU.

I would say that Christmas has been a capable defender on the wing -- not great, not a liability -- and that his shot-blocking and rebounding abilities are better exploited there than down low (where, again, he's not going to be physical enough to deal with big centers).

He's also proven himself to be a very good high-post passer and has shown glimpses of a decent face-up game, where he's successfully scored in a variety of ways (with both hands) from about 15 feet and in. But I recognize that that's a point of contention around here, where it can be much easier to gloss over specifics and write off a player as having no offensive skills. Sadly, that makes it difficult to elevate the discourse and exchange information about our team.

 

[Cusefaninvirginia]

You are talking a guy that played a role on the Final Four team vs a guy who couldn't get off the bench at Duke.

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

I like your confidence in Cooney - and I do think in time he'll develop into the player we hoped he'd be. But to be more accurate, we're talking about a true freshman at Duke who was behind Austin Rivers and Seth Curry on the depth chart, and so only saw limited minutes. Despite this, many, many Duke fans were still clamoring for Gbinije to get more minutes - even at the expense of Rivers and Curry - because they liked Gbinije's game so much. There's good reason to be excited about Gbinije's potential next year, and I'd be very surprised if Cooney somehow gets the starting job over him. If anyone gets the "token" start this year, it'll be Rak/Coleman at the 4 and 5. It won't be at the 2.

 

[jordoo]

He's also proven himself to be a very good high-post passer and has shown glimpses of a decent face-up game, where he's successfully scored in a variety of ways (with both hands) from about 15 feet and in. But I recognize that that's a point of contention around here, where it can be much easier to gloss over specifics and write off a player as having no offensive skills. Sadly, that makes it difficult to elevate the discourse and exchange information about our team.

This is what frustrates me. There are times that Christmas has just played when on offense. He was decisive and effective and showed both a back to the basket game and face up shot or one dribble drive. Then there are times where he never looks to shoot for the 15min he plays even when he gets an offensive rebound right next to the basket and he passes out without even looking at the rim. I unlike many others feel that he has the skills and moves needed to be an effective offensive player at the 5 for sure as well as a non liability at the 4 although his range isn't enough to stretch things. For me the question is why doesn't he look for his opertunities more? There is no ryme or reason he simply passes up shots and openings that he has shown he can take advantage of.
Contrast this with DC2 who struggled with technique, speed and decision making but looked to take advantage when ever he could. DC2 had the mind set to attack right out of the gate and never lost that through any of his struggles. DC2 will make the adjustments and once he implaments them he will be a player that constantly pressures the defense because that is his mentality.

 

[jordoo]

You are talking a guy that played a role on the Final Four team vs a guy who couldn't get off the bench at Duke.

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

His role was to play as little as possible to provide the necessary few minutes of rest our other guards needed. He could have had a much bigger role and you could see that in the early season the staff was hoping he could do that but he was unable to. I like Cooney his shooting will be key be it as a starter or a sub but saying he had a role on a FF team is rather misleading. If he had come into his own down the stretch and started hitting his shot and then using that to pump, drive, pass and that helped propel us into the FF then fan's expectations would be different. There is a lot to like about Cooney and I was pleasantly surprised to see what he could bring other than shooting however those things are contingent on him making shots which he struggled to do even though he was an after thought to defenses.
MikeG played behind a one and done guard and a very experencied guard who was a great shooter. He was not a PG so the backup minutes whent that direction while Rivers whould slide to the two when Curry rested.

 

[senorpalmer]

If dc had made it all the way thru last season as a starter I would be pegging him to start alongside xmas, but considering how his last ~2 months went, I am guessing grant will start at the other forward spot, and that jb does not continue the '2 bigs' starting lineup that he has utilized in recent years (I do acknowledge the possibility that he could go that route tho).

The 2 is mystery imo, tho I assume its a two man race between g and cooney. Wouldnt surprise me if there was a change made from one to the other at some point. I mean surely we can't expect a dramaless season where the lineup remains the same all thru the season, right?

 

[OttoMets]

This is what frustrates me. There are times that Christmas has just played when on offense. He was decisive and effective and showed both a back to the basket game and face up shot or one dribble drive. Then there are times where he never looks to shoot for the 15min he plays even when he gets an offensive rebound right next to the basket and he passes out without even looking at the rim. I unlike many others feel that he has the skills and moves needed to be an effective offensive player at the 5 for sure as well as a non liability at the 4 although his range isn't enough to stretch things. For me the question is why doesn't he look for his opertunities more? There is no ryme or reason he simply passes up shots and openings that he has shown he can take advantage of.
Contrast this with DC2 who struggled with technique, speed and decision making but looked to take advantage when ever he could. DC2 had the mind set to attack right out of the gate and never lost that through any of his struggles. DC2 will make the adjustments and once he implaments them he will be a player that constantly pressures the defense because that is his mentality.

It's frustrating. The "most frustrating players" thread (where I fear Christmas is going to be a frequent mention some day) touches on this - it's pretty disappointing when someone has enough of the obvious tools but is held back by that Craig Forth/Mookie Watkins passivity.

No secret that I'm high on his game. I predicted John Wallace-like numbers for Christmas at about this time last year. Maybe he'll surprise, but I don't see that happening anymore. A ballplayer can learn all kinds of skills, but it'd be really difficult for him to change how he's wired.

He's been a valuable member of our team, though, and what he can do is exciting (halfway through his career, he's already 18th all time in total blocked shots). He might not do anything consistently, but Christmas is capable of contributing to a lot of wins and being an asset at both ends of the court. If Coleman and Keita play well enough to allow him to do those things from the 4, all the better. And a couple more of those Notre Dame -level performances would be awesome.

 

[PoppyHart]

I think it's Cooney at the start based on seniority with the program. Also see Grant coming off the bench. He's more versatile than DC2.

 

[orangefan13]

Yeah I am changing my lineup to
Ennis
Cooney
Fair
Rak
Dajaun

I think Cooney will be best with Dajuans outlet passing out of doubles and Ennis' drive and Kick as a spot up shooter.
And I think Ennis and Dajuan are both starting if Rak starts at the four as we wouldn't have a SG as a true second scoring option and that would put alot of pressure on Ennis to be one.

 

[HoustonCuse]

You are talking a guy that played a role on the Final Four team vs a guy who couldn't get off the bench at Duke.

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

But MCW was a guy that played a role on a Final Four team and he couldn't get off the bench at Syracuse... These are platitudes. Mike G is going to be a quality player at worst and very very good at best.