Stop blaming the fans for attendance

[senorpalmer]

The only horse in town comment was also a bad one that drove away fans.

Indeed. I know a few people who had been season ticket holders for several years around that time, and they found that very comment so off-putting that they gave up their season tickets.

 

[Cuse181]

The stuff on the Quad is not real tailgating, IMO. It's pep rally crap, meant for kids.
Television has ruined the viewing experience, too.
There are sixteen commercial breaks between 3:00 and 3:20 in every game.
Sixteen.
You know how many in European soccer? Zero. None. Nada. Just a 15 minute halftime and no timeouts.

Considering how poorly the US networks are doing, they clearly need that revenue. It drives me mad but I study those guys for a living and commercials aren’t driving the value they used to which makes it difficult to survive

 

[orangecuse]

I don’t know, anyone still referencing that “get a life” comment is (a) old, and (b) using it to rationalize their behavior.

For the most part, people decide to do (or not do, or believe or not believe) something, and then find things that rationalize their decision.

So my hunch is that a lot of people who had already decided to draw down their SU fandom found a comment that justified that action. Its very unlikely that someone who was a rabid fan who attended every game quit cold turkey the day after Buzz spewed that nonsense.

Of course there are layers And, actions speak louder than words. Whether the folks “still referencing the get a life” comment are old, is consequential in the broader scope. The broader scope of ensuing consistent negligent inaction, et al by the SU powers that be is what truly planted the deeply seeded roots/culture of losing for these past two plus decades. With the later having the most significance in folks rationalizations and/or justifications.

And, we aren’t talking about “rabid” fans, so your reference there is completely irrelevant and off point. This is about the non die hards, etc. that are plenty abundant in the Syracuse and vicinity areas.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Considering how poorly the US networks are doing, they clearly need that revenue. It drives me mad but I study those guys for a living and commercials aren’t driving the value they used to which makes it difficult to survive

Just like someone said earlier, 'there's too much inventory' with respect to depressing season ticket prices; I think the same is true with commercials. Instead of 16 commercial breaks (which means around 50 actual ads) per game. Maybe they would get better dollars per minute of ad time if there was less of it.

 

[Scooch]

You'd be surprised, I guess, at how many people went from being fans/attending games to from not caring to outright hating them for that. Remember that was in response to a lot of those same fans complaining that they didn't think the school cared about the program to begin with. Those people stopped going, never brought their kids to games and the product on the field sure as F never gave those younger locals any reason to become interested on their own, that's for sure

Of course there are layers And, actions speak louder than words. Whether the folks “still referencing the get a life” comment are old, is consequential in the broader scope. The broader scope of ensuing consistent negligent inaction, et al by the SU powers that be is what truly planted the deeply seeded roots/culture of losing for these past two plus decades. With the later having the most significance in folks rationalizations and/or justifications.

And, we aren’t talking about “rabid” fans, so your reference there is completely irrelevant and off point. This is about the non die hards, etc. that are plenty abundant in the Syracuse and vicinity areas.

I’m in this thread trying to defend SU fans. But I’ll be honest, anyone still not attending games because of the “get a life” comment is petulant and ridiculous.

That comment was made TWENTY years ago. We are 2 Chancellors, 3 Athletic Directors and 4 Head Coaches removed from it.

And my reference to people being “old” is entirely about the comment occurring 20 years ago. I doubt anyone much under 40 either remembers it or was ever aggrieved enough to care. Let alone clutch it to their spiteful bosom for 2 decades.

 

[sufandu]

Imagine you attended a state school with 40,000 or 50,000 graduates every year, and most of you still live within driving distance of your college, still live in the same state. Those bonds remain strong, and get stronger after graduation. SU is a commuter school compared to those kinds of school, where literally everybody goes to either the U or State.

For a private school, we have an outstanding following, especially considering how few grads remain in CNY.

That's definitely a part of it. Football is also just different in the south. You have high schools that haven't had updates on the interior for decades but have amazing updated football only stadiums because nobody wants to pay taxes to fund schools but boosters will ensure the football team has everything they want.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Of course there are layers And, actions speak louder than words. Whether the folks “still referencing the get a life” comment are old, is consequential in the broader scope. The broader scope of ensuing consistent negligent inaction, et al by the SU powers that be is what truly planted the deeply seeded roots/culture of losing for these past two plus decades. With the later having the most significance in folks rationalizations and/or justifications.

And, we aren’t talking about “rabid” fans, so your reference there is completely irrelevant and off point. This is about the non die hards, etc. that are plenty abundant in the Syracuse and vicinity areas.

They all go to Bills games now. When I was growing up ('70s), it was the Giants or the Jets. The Bills were the minor league team. Now, after moving back 20 years ago, the Bills have filled the void that SU football used to hold when we were still a national program. It's only a 2+ hour drive to go to a Bills game (certainly closer and easier to drive than New York). So, that's where your casual fan has gone.

 

[Stern]

You'd be surprised, I guess, at how many people went from being fans/attending games to from not caring to outright hating them for that. Remember that was in response to a lot of those same fans complaining that they didn't think the school cared about the program to begin with. Those people stopped going, never brought their kids to games and the product on the field sure as F never gave those younger locals any reason to become interested on their own, that's for sure

I agree. That "GET A LIFE" comment still resonates with some. How big and how many, I don't know, but fans of a certain age, probably now in their mid to late 40's and older, remember that as it was a kick in the gut back in the day. And in my circle of friends it still comes up every now and then (and most in my circle don't really care about SU football and one time in their life when we were all younger they did. They bet college football each weekend and watch the games they bet, if SU wins or loses they don't care and most don't even watch. I feel like the last man standing still rooting for them and going to games.)

The bottom line is this: if the Dome was sold out and every football game and fans were screaming at the top of their lungs for the entire game, the outcome of these games wouldn't be any different. Blaming the fans for all the losing is an easy cop-out and ignoring the real problems.

 

[SUfanNC]

I don’t know, anyone still referencing that “get a life” comment is (a) old, and (b) using it to rationalize their behavior.

For the most part, people decide to do (or not do, or believe or not believe) something, and then find things that rationalize their decision.

So my hunch is that a lot of people who had already decided to draw down their SU fandom found a comment that justified that action. Its very unlikely that someone who was a rabid fan who attended every game quit cold turkey the day after Buzz spewed that nonsense.

I’ve never heard this before today

That said , if you list fans to that statement and their kids aren’t interested because mom and dad don’t care to watch, that a problem.

You have to win fans over. If you aren’t consistent its going to impact attendance. Probably means you need to make more fan accessibility to the program.

Price of being a program that hasn’t had much wining in the recent past

 

[senorpalmer]

I’m in this thread trying to defend SU fans. But I’ll be honest, anyone still not attending games because of the “get a life” comment is petulant and ridiculous.

That comment was made TWENTY years ago. We are 2 Chancellors, 3 Athletic Directors and 4 Head Coaches removed from it.

And my reference to people being “old” is entirely about the comment occurring 20 years ago. I doubt anyone much under 40 either remembers it or was ever aggrieved enough to care. Let alone clutch it to their spiteful bosom for 2 decades.

I doubt most of those people care these days. They were lost as fans long ago and have moved on.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I’m in this thread trying to defend SU fans. But I’ll be honest, anyone still not attending games because of the “get a life” comment is petulant and ridiculous.

That comment was made TWENTY years ago. We are 2 Chancellors, 3 Athletic Directors and 4 Head Coaches removed from it.

And my reference to people being “old” is entirely about the comment occurring 20 years ago. I doubt anyone much under 40 either remembers it or was ever aggrieved enough to care. Let alone clutch it to their spiteful bosom for 2 decades.

I think you're missing the main point.

While the comment was off-putting, and talking down to your customers, the total collapse of the product that followed meant that people indeed found other, more fun things to do with their time.

And while some people will make fun of raking leaves, the fact is, Syracuse probably lost 20,000 fans to the Buffalo Bills. It's more fun, they play good opponents, tailgating is easier than at SU, and you're home in 3 hours.

Casual football fans ditched SU for the Bills. I've never seen so many Bills flags, merchandise, car license plates, etc., as I have in the last 10 years. This is a Bills town now, much more than an SU town. And that sucks for the University, because it's not the alumni who support the program for the most part.

So, call CNY'ers who used to be SU fans petulant if you like. I just think many have found more fun ways to spend time with their friends. Buzz Shaw was wrong. SU Sports is not the only game in town.

 

[OrangeDW]

I think you're missing the main point.

While the comment was off-putting, and talking down to your customers, the total collapse of the product that followed meant that people indeed found other, more fun things to do with their time.

And while some people will make fun of raking leaves, the fact is, Syracuse probably lost 20,000 fans to the Buffalo Bills. It's more fun, they play good opponents, tailgating is easier than at SU, and you're home in 3 hours.

Casual football fans ditched SU for the Bills. I've never seen so many Bills flags, merchandise, car license plates, etc., as I have in the last 10 years. This is a Bills town now, much more than an SU town. And that sucks for the University, because it's not the alumni who support the program for the most part.

So, call CNY'ers who used to be SU fans petulant if you like. I just think many have found more fun ways to spend time with their friends. Buzz Shaw was wrong. SU Sports is not the only game in town.

That’s really about winning.

Bills fans in the area multiplied as soon as the Bills got good.

 

[IthacaMatt]

That’s really about winning.

Bills fans in the area multiplied as soon as the Bills got good.

It's about having fun. Winning certainly helps, but we've still won more championships than the Bills have.

 

[cuse309]

I’d argue fan support is pretty good for a program that has sucked for over two decades. Much better fan support than similarly crappy programs.

I agree. I've recently changed my mind on this. I used to just blame the fans for not attending, but to be honest, between the more limited population within 45 mins compared to other programs, and averaging around 5 wins per year, and a program that doesn't really do anything special in terms of fan experience/game day atmosphere,I think we're doing better than to be expected.

 

[OrangeDW]

It's about having fun. Winning certainly helps, but we've still won more championships than the Bills have.

Agreed, but there are a lot of bandwagoners who only like to rep teams that are winning. Seems like an insecurity thing.

I don’t get it. But I’ll certainly get comments when I wear my team’s gear when said team is bad. It’s kind of a shrug and “yeah they suck this year, I’ll try harder” type of response.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Agreed, but there are a lot of bandwagoners who only like to rep teams that are winning. Seems like an insecurity thing.

I don’t get it. But I’ll certainly get comments when I wear my team’s gear when said team is bad. It’s kind of a shrug and “yeah they suck this year, I’ll try harder” type of response.

When people think Syracuse can play in important games, when they think Syracuse could be good again, they show up. Call them bandwagoners, if you like, but I don't see how people remain so devoted to a team that has barely even TRIED to win games for an entire freaking generation.

This is a university that has been happily cashing the checks without any real investment in the sports program until Wildhack came along. It was 25-30 years of financial neglect, and the product turned into crap.

And joining the ACC has been a total debacle, mismanaged by the worst of the P5 conferences, well third worst anyway. We have literally NO RIVALS. NONE. We used to have rivals from the Big East, and they could have retained a lot of those relationships, but no, that made too much sense.

At least the Bills - and their front runner fans - play the Dolphins, Patriots and Jets in their division. Real rivals, who they have played forever. Sure, the Bills' tailgates run a little too close to West Virginia's with people lighting stuff (and themselves) on fire - But we've got cute little Otto and a bounce house on the Quad!

 

[OrangeDW]

When people think Syracuse can play in important games, when they think Syracuse could be good again, they show up. Call them bandwagoners, if you like, but I don't see how people remain so devoted to a team that has barely even TRIED to win games for an entire freaking generation.

This is a university that has ben happily cashing the checks without any real investment in the sports program until Wildhack came along. It was 25-30 years of financial neglect, and the product turned into crap.

And joining the ACC has been a total debacle, mismanaged by the worst of the P5 conferences, well third worst anyway. We have literally NO RIVALS. NONE. We used to have rivals from the Big East, and they could have retained a lot of those relationships, but no, that made too much sense.

At least the Bills - and their front runner fans - play the Dolphins, Patriots and Jets in their division. Real rivals, who they have played forever. Sure, the Bills' tailgates run a little too close to West Virginia's with people lighting stuff (and themselves) on fire - But we've got cute little Otto and a bounce house on the Quad!

I meant my “bandwagon” comment more in general, than about SU fans.

I’ve never seen Chiefs gear on anybody in my life in NY until the last 5 years and now it’s everywhere.

 

[MSOrange]

That's definitely a part of it. Football is also just different in the south. You have high schools that haven't had updates on the interior for decades but have amazing updated football only stadiums because nobody wants to pay taxes to fund schools but boosters will ensure the football team has everything they want.

You're absolutely right about it just being different in the south and even at several Big 10 schools. I lived in Georgia from 1987-98. Georgia's 1980 national championship was still pretty clear in most people's memories, but those years were not even close to what Georgia is now. But it was still the thing to do on the weekend and what everyone talked about. It's just part of the culture down there, which may or may not be the best thing in all honesty.

And Matt's right, being state schools makes a big difference. Most people grow up being fans of "State University."

That being said, I give tremendous credit to everyone who has been loyal supporters of SU through the years when it hasn't been easy at all.

 

[Cusefan78]

When people think Syracuse can play in important games, when they think Syracuse could be good again, they show up. Call them bandwagoners, if you like, but I don't see how people remain so devoted to a team that has barely even TRIED to win games for an entire freaking generation.

This is a university that has ben happily cashing the checks without any real investment in the sports program until Wildhack came along. It was 25-30 years of financial neglect, and the product turned into crap.

And joining the ACC has been a total debacle, mismanaged by the worst of the P5 conferences, well third worst anyway. We have literally NO RIVALS. NONE. We used to have rivals from the Big East, and they could have retained a lot of those relationships, but no, that made too much sense.

At least the Bills - and their front runner fans - play the Dolphins, Patriots and Jets in their division. Real rivals, who they have played forever. Sure, the Bills' tailgates run a little too close to West Virginia's with people lighting stuff (and themselves) on fire - But we've got cute little Otto and a bounce house on the Quad!

Not investing in the 90s and 2000s is the biggest reason for the decline. When other schools started upgrading they used that against us in recruiting. I still look at dinos whose house viral video and laugh at how much of a joke those locker rooms were. Syracuse has no one to blame other than themselves and I very much believe it’s too late to turn it around. Their greed has led to the destruction of football which is the biggest money maker and will kill basketball once the acc is gone. To look at the program now and think back that we were once rivals with penn state is hard to imagine.

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

I’m in this thread trying to defend SU fans. But I’ll be honest, anyone still not attending games because of the “get a life” comment is petulant and ridiculous.

That comment was made TWENTY years ago. We are 2 Chancellors, 3 Athletic Directors and 4 Head Coaches removed from it.

And my reference to people being “old” is entirely about the comment occurring 20 years ago. I doubt anyone much under 40 either remembers it or was ever aggrieved enough to care. Let alone clutch it to their spiteful bosom for 2 decades.

They're not just not going. They are either no longer with us or they just don't care. They don't give you a second thought. That wasn't a one off, stand-alone comment and I have no idea why people now try to pretend that it was. It was ONE example of the kind of attitude they were putting out over a few seasons when that was going down. I think Shaw's statement to the effect of it's our school, not theirs and it's our program and we'll do what we like (paraphrasing) pissed even more people off. He pretty much said if people don't like it, they don't need to come. Don't be surprised if you tell your fans to basically off, that they just might grant you your wish. And the people under 40 are the children of the fans that I referred to as their children that were never exposed to SU FB and the product that's been put out never encouraged them to take an interest on their own.

 

[Bayside44]

That’s really about winning.

Bills fans in the area multiplied as soon as the Bills got good.

And the NFL is an absolute colossus.

The average cost of a Bills season ticket is a shade under $1100. Before parking (average $50 a game) and $4 a gallon gas and 2.5 hours each way. The "casual fan" apparently has more disposable time and income than we realized!

 

[Millhouse]

I think you're missing the main point.

While the comment was off-putting, and talking down to your customers, the total collapse of the product that followed meant that people indeed found other, more fun things to do with their time.

And while some people will make fun of raking leaves, the fact is, Syracuse probably lost 20,000 fans to the Buffalo Bills. It's more fun, they play good opponents, tailgating is easier than at SU, and you're home in 3 hours.

Casual football fans ditched SU for the Bills. I've never seen so many Bills flags, merchandise, car license plates, etc., as I have in the last 10 years. This is a Bills town now, much more than an SU town. And that sucks for the University, because it's not the alumni who support the program for the most part.

So, call CNY'ers who used to be SU fans petulant if you like. I just think many have found more fun ways to spend time with their friends. Buzz Shaw was wrong. SU Sports is not the only game in town.

I highly doubt they lost that many to the bills. And now that tickets are so hard to get and so expensive buying from resellers, there should be a little equilibrium where some of those people say, ya know, I can take my whole family to SU to the whole season for what it costs to go to one bills game

 

[oldpinepoint]

It’s all about choice and priority, I love SU sports, but going to a game isn’t a priority right now for football or bball. I’m 46, I have a 6 year old kid, I have my own interests and I have family priority. If you give me a choice to go watch a mediocre football team, go golfing or mountain biking on a sunny fall day, I can tell you it isn’t watching football. Prior to having kids I went to all the games, went to away games but things changed for me. Still love SU but I would rather do something else with that time and money, especially with the inconsistency on the field.

 

[Scooch]

They're not just not going. They are either no longer with us or they just don't care. They don't give you a second thought. That wasn't a one off, stand-alone comment and I have no idea why people now try to pretend that it was. It was ONE example of the kind of attitude they were putting out over a few seasons when that was going down. I think Shaw's statement to the effect of it's our school, not theirs and it's our program and we'll do what we like (paraphrasing) pissed even more people off. He pretty much said if people don't like it, they don't need to come. Don't be surprised if you tell your fans to basically off, that they just might grant you your wish. And the people under 40 are the children of the fans that I referred to as their children that were never exposed to SU FB and the product that's been put out never encouraged them to take an interest on their own.

Let me ask this... did these same people care about the hoops program a few years back when we were a top 10 program and making Final 4 runs?

 

[Scooch]

It’s all about choice and priority, I love SU sports, but going to a game isn’t a priority right now for football or bball. I’m 46, I have a 6 year old kid, I have my own interests and I have family priority. If you give me a choice to go watch a mediocre football team, go golfing or mountain biking on a sunny fall day, I can tell you it isn’t watching football. Prior to having kids I went to all the games, went to away games but things changed for me. Still love SU but I would rather do something else with that time and money, especially with the inconsistency on the field.

This is fair. Life stage plays a *tremendous* role in one's sports avidity. I know because I've researched it for 20+ years.

A problem for SU football, which I've mentioned here time and time again, is simple math. The size of our potential fan base is limited. We're not a massive state school, churning out 10-15K alums every year where most *live within a close distance of school when they graduate*. The overall population of CNY hasn't grown much in the past few decades.

In other places, when one hits the lifestage you're at, where going to games becomes a challenge (or not a priority), there's fans to take your place. That dynamic is tougher to pull off for SU, because of the math of it all.

Which leads right back to my point yesterday... they built the Dome 10K seats too big in 1980.