SWC75
Bored Historian
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 32,692
- Like
- 62,971
Bud Poliquin was lauding the 1987 Syracuse team, (whose 25th anniversary this is), on his radio show. He’s written both an arti8cle for the a paper about them and an 11 page spread in CNY Sports magazine. He marveled that that team had 31 players on it who were alter pro draftees or free agents, 31 guys who, for at least a time, played on the “next level”. I’d done a study a couple years ago about the talent level of the team. I’d listed all the draftees and free agents since freshmen became eligible in 1972. I had 32 future pros for 1987 team. But later teams had more, with a peak of 36 in 1998. As a matter of fact, we had 31 future pros as late as 2003. This suggested to me that the ‘87 team had more going for it than just the talent level, something that was missing from subsequent teams.
But what got me onto the present project was that Bud wanted to know who my 32 players were so it could be compared to his list. I hadn’t listed players: I just added up the draftees and free agents for every four year period in the SU Media Guide, (“SU Draft Selections and Free Agents”) and attributed that number to the SU team before each period. I wasn’t looking for precision- just some overall numbers that would serve as a sort of graft of the talent level over a period of years. Bud had looked at the 1987 roster and compared it to the same section. When I figured it out, I found that both had “errors”. I had Rob Carpenter, who transferred in from Notre Dame after 1987. Bud had Andrew Dees who was on the 1987 roster but red shirted that year and played the next four years. And he didn’t have Frank Conover who did the same thing.
The “dispute” didn’t amount to much but it left me with a desire to get a more meaningful accounting of the talent level for each team. High school ratings are meaningless here: that’s what they did in high school. The Media Guide lists players SU players who have made All-America, (unfortunately only the first-teamers), and All-Big East, (all teams), the all-time list of lettermen as well as the section on draftees and free agents. I compared the other lists to the list of letterman, (which gives the years they were letterman) and came up with what I have below.
The NFL draft was 12 rounds until 1993. Then it was 8 rounds, then 7 rounds from 1994 onward. So there are fewer draftees and more free agents, (many of whom would have been draftees), from that point on. That makes the distinction between draftees and free agents blurred at best. Thus, I’ve listed both. Some of the free agents signed with Canadian teams. SU lists them and so will I. While it’s regrettable they didn’t list everyone who was on every level of the All-American teams, I’d assume anyone who was would have been on the All Big East teams. There are some players who made some level of All-Big East who were never drafted by the pros and were not free agents. Since the conference didn’t begin until 1991, such players would not be on the lists for previous teams. I decided to list them separately so the count could be based on the player’s status as pro draftees and free agents. That’s a pretty good representation of the talent level of each team, even if there might have been some good college players the pros were not interested in.
I decided to cover the Carrier Dome Era, so I began with 1980. Using the lettermen list, (note: some players lettered then didn’t, then did for various reasons so their lettermen years might not be consecutive), meant the players contributed something to the team in that year: they were on the roster, did not red shirt and played enough to earn a letter. They may not yet have been playing at an All-Conference, All-American level or one that made them a retrospect yet but they had the talent to eventually do so and the talent level of the team is what we are trying to measure here. This is along one so I'lll break it up into the 1980's, 1990's and the 2000's.
(See my post later in this thread for an explanation of some adjustments I made)
But what got me onto the present project was that Bud wanted to know who my 32 players were so it could be compared to his list. I hadn’t listed players: I just added up the draftees and free agents for every four year period in the SU Media Guide, (“SU Draft Selections and Free Agents”) and attributed that number to the SU team before each period. I wasn’t looking for precision- just some overall numbers that would serve as a sort of graft of the talent level over a period of years. Bud had looked at the 1987 roster and compared it to the same section. When I figured it out, I found that both had “errors”. I had Rob Carpenter, who transferred in from Notre Dame after 1987. Bud had Andrew Dees who was on the 1987 roster but red shirted that year and played the next four years. And he didn’t have Frank Conover who did the same thing.
The “dispute” didn’t amount to much but it left me with a desire to get a more meaningful accounting of the talent level for each team. High school ratings are meaningless here: that’s what they did in high school. The Media Guide lists players SU players who have made All-America, (unfortunately only the first-teamers), and All-Big East, (all teams), the all-time list of lettermen as well as the section on draftees and free agents. I compared the other lists to the list of letterman, (which gives the years they were letterman) and came up with what I have below.
The NFL draft was 12 rounds until 1993. Then it was 8 rounds, then 7 rounds from 1994 onward. So there are fewer draftees and more free agents, (many of whom would have been draftees), from that point on. That makes the distinction between draftees and free agents blurred at best. Thus, I’ve listed both. Some of the free agents signed with Canadian teams. SU lists them and so will I. While it’s regrettable they didn’t list everyone who was on every level of the All-American teams, I’d assume anyone who was would have been on the All Big East teams. There are some players who made some level of All-Big East who were never drafted by the pros and were not free agents. Since the conference didn’t begin until 1991, such players would not be on the lists for previous teams. I decided to list them separately so the count could be based on the player’s status as pro draftees and free agents. That’s a pretty good representation of the talent level of each team, even if there might have been some good college players the pros were not interested in.
I decided to cover the Carrier Dome Era, so I began with 1980. Using the lettermen list, (note: some players lettered then didn’t, then did for various reasons so their lettermen years might not be consecutive), meant the players contributed something to the team in that year: they were on the roster, did not red shirt and played enough to earn a letter. They may not yet have been playing at an All-Conference, All-American level or one that made them a retrospect yet but they had the talent to eventually do so and the talent level of the team is what we are trying to measure here. This is along one so I'lll break it up into the 1980's, 1990's and the 2000's.
(See my post later in this thread for an explanation of some adjustments I made)
