Talent

[K Otto XLIV]

I thought they had more talent than we did. It's not the reason we lost it's just something i noticed. their kids seemed a little bigger and a little faster.

If that is true then that should be another mark against Shafer. Some people here say that Shafer has done a great job recruiting. But if we have less talent than USF, how can that be the case? This is why Coyle needs someone experienced to take a good look at our talent. If that person says our talent is fine, then great. However if they say the opposite, Shafer needs to get to a Bowl.

 

[PhatOrange]

If that is true then that should be another mark against Shafer. Some people here say that Shafer has done a great job recruiting. But if we have less talent than USF, how can that be the case? This is why Coyle needs someone experienced to take a good look at our talent. If that person says our talent is fine, then great. However if they say the opposite, Shafer needs to get to a Bowl.

Maybe they have more talent because they reside in Tampa and the talent rich state of Florida. The place we have to travel 1500 miles to recruit. According to rvls they’ve finished ahead of us in the rankings every year and have multiple 4 star kids, but I don’t care what the rankings say I care what my eyes say. They appeared bigger and faster. Their DL was formidable and mostly rushed 4 all game.

I just went and checked the USF roster and the roster says they’re bigger.

Of 17 defensive backs on their roster only 6 are listed under 6-0 tall. That's only 6 of 17. *we have 6 corners listed – 4 of 6 are under 6 feet tall

Of 14 linebackers, they have zero listed under 6-0 tall (only 2 are 6-0 the rest are bigger). *we have 12 linebackers listed – 7 of 12 listed as 6 feet or shorter. 3 of those kids start

6 safeties listed. 5-9, 6-2, 6-3, 6-2, 5-10, and 6-3. *we have 8 safeties listed – 5 of 8 listed as under 6 feet tall. 2 are 6-0 tall and Scissum checks in at 6-2

We’re TINY

We’ve upgraded our speed and play making ability by leaps and bounds but now we have to get bigger. We can’t have midget safeties coming up in run support. Or linebackers that weigh less than the running backs they’re defending against.

Everyone railing on South Florida as being the worst team on our schedule needs their head examined. They have 1 bad loss to Maryland. FSU and Memphis are good football teams.

Frankly I predicted a loss at USF so I’m not surprised by the outcome.

 

[cuseguy]

If that is true then that should be another mark against Shafer. Some people here say that Shafer has done a great job recruiting. But if we have less talent than USF, how can that be the case? This is why Coyle needs someone experienced to take a good look at our talent. If that person says our talent is fine, then great. However if they say the opposite, Shafer needs to get to a Bowl.

Just because we've recruited better doesn't mean we have overall better talent.

South Florida probably has a dozen players as fast or faster than our fastest players.

We just need more of them. It's happening, but not soon enough.

 

[FrancoPizza]

We simply don't have the depth yet. The upperclassmen are still Big East recruits and our ACC recruits are just pups.

Our ACC recruits are better than what we've had, but many other ACC teams continue to land better classes. We have a ways to go. We'll never have the depth to compete at a Playoff level (until it expands to 16) but we can strive to land higher top-end talent at the skill positions. In the 80s and 90s our depth was never that great, but we had NFL talent in key positions.

 

[BKCuse]

Huh? If thats the case USF upperclassman are also BE recruits and their AAC recruits are just pups. This makes zero sense.

Ok let me explain this to you. USF is located in the talent loaded state of Florida so it's MUCH easier for them to fill out their roster with great Florida athletes than it is for us to convince those kids to come play in CNY. They had great athletes in the Big East and obv still do.

Give us 2 more years of recruiting ACC talent and we should have more talent than an AAC team

 

[SWC75]

Every time we lose, we don't have any talent. Oh Lord

 

[FrancoPizza]

Every time we lose, we don't have any talent. Oh Lord

When you see replays where USF is locking up every one of our players in 1-on-1 blocks... when you see 2 USF linemen running free into the second level to plug our linebackers... that just screams physicality disadvantage. Are we going to blame that on poor coaching technique? Refs not calling holds on every play? Or that tropical heat many on here claim is just another summer day in CNY?

Talent is a big part of the issue. Talent is what lets teams like Florida State come out flat and turn it on when they need to.

 

[cuseguy]

Every time we lose, we don't have any talent. Oh Lord

We do have talent, but many teams on our schedule still have better talent.

Virginia has better talent.

So does Pitt and Louisville.

We're pretty close with NC State and BC, but even those schools have seen a big upgrade in recent years.

 

[jekelish]

We do have talent - but it's mostly young, and there isn't much depth. We're playing catch up at the skill positions on offense and more athletic positions on defense, in particular.

 

[TheCusian]

When you see replays where USF is locking up every one of our players in 1-on-1 blocks... when you see 2 USF linemen running free into the second level to plug our linebackers... that just screams physicality disadvantage. Are we going to blame that on poor coaching technique? Refs not calling holds on every play? Or that tropical heat many on here claim is just another summer day in CNY?

Talent is a big part of the issue. Talent is what lets teams like Florida State come out flat and turn it on when they need to.

Rewatch. It wasn't players not coming off blocks (though their were some and holds). It was guys flying through the line only to miss a TFL. Over and over again.

 

[jekelish]

Rewatch. It wasn't players not coming off blocks (though their were some and holds). It was guys flying through the line only to miss a TFL. Over and over again.

Yeah, I saw a TON of poor angles and technique. I can only hope that has a lot to do with youth and inexperience and can be improved with coaching.

 

[007]

Maybe they have more talent because they reside in Tampa and the talent rich state of Florida. The place we have to travel 1500 miles to recruit. According to rvls they’ve finished ahead of us in the rankings every year and have multiple 4 star kids, but I don’t care what the rankings say I care what my eyes say. They appeared bigger and faster. Their DL was formidable and mostly rushed 4 all game.

I just went and checked the USF roster and the roster says they’re bigger.

Of 17 defensive backs on their roster only 6 are listed under 6-0 tall. That's only 6 of 17. *we have 6 corners listed – 4 of 6 are under 6 feet tall

Of 14 linebackers, they have zero listed under 6-0 tall (only 2 are 6-0 the rest are bigger). *we have 12 linebackers listed – 7 of 12 listed as 6 feet or shorter. 3 of those kids start

6 safeties listed. 5-9, 6-2, 6-3, 6-2, 5-10, and 6-3. *we have 8 safeties listed – 5 of 8 listed as under 6 feet tall. 2 are 6-0 tall and Scissum checks in at 6-2

We’re TINY

We’ve upgraded our speed and play making ability by leaps and bounds but now we have to get bigger. We can’t have midget safeties coming up in run support. Or linebackers that weigh less than the running backs they’re defending against.

Everyone railing on South Florida as being the worst team on our schedule needs their head examined. They have 1 bad loss to Maryland. FSU and Memphis are good football teams.

Frankly I predicted a loss at USF so I’m not surprised by the outcome.

Good post Phat.

Our lack of size on D, apart from the DL, is a major factor, IMO. It isn't just the very small safeties (although I would take Cordy any day). Once the LBs are engaged, they struggle to get off blocks (including Zaire, who is a warrior), and then it doesn't take much to push the 175 lbs safeties around. Some of us talked about the lack of size in the preseason. But the clear consensus was that this "great" D is built on speed and size was over rated.

Size matters. it always has. And size really matters when the collective team speed on D is average. Take a long look at the rosters of everyone we have left. The size disparity is glaring. The other important factor here is that, over the course of the season, there is an accumulative physical impact to the kids as they consistently have to take on much larger players.

 

[SWC75]

When you see replays where USF is locking up every one of our players in 1-on-1 blocks... when you see 2 USF linemen running free into the second level to plug our linebackers... that just screams physicality disadvantage. Are we going to blame that on poor coaching technique? Refs not calling holds on every play? Or that tropical heat many on here claim is just another summer day in CNY?

Talent is a big part of the issue. Talent is what lets teams like Florida State come out flat and turn it on when they need to.

Or it could be the quality of effort by the players. And teams like South Florida are not teams like Florida State.

 

[SWC75]

We do have talent, but many teams on our schedule still have better talent.

Virginia has better talent.

So does Pitt and Louisville.

We're pretty close with NC State and BC, but even those schools have seen a big upgrade in recent years.

Virginia has better talent than we do? Better than NC State. I don't see it. Some teams we play have clearly better talent than we do- enough to win the game on that alone. But most don't. Did anybody say last week that we were going to lose to South Florida because we didn't have enough talent to beat them?

 

[cuseguy]

Virginia has better talent than we do? Better than NC State. I don't see it. Some teams we play have clearly better talent than we do- enough to win the game on that alone. But most don't. Did anybody say last week that we were going to lose to South Florida because we didn't have enough talent to beat them?

I didn't think we'd beat South Florida.

And, yes, Virginia has better talent.

They bring in good classes almost every year. It just hasn't shown on the field.

 

[SWC75]

I didn't think we'd beat South Florida.

And, yes, Virginia has better talent.

They bring in good classes almost every year. It just hasn't shown on the field.

Maybe they aren't that good.

 

[RoatanCuse]

Maybe they have more talent because they reside in Tampa and the talent rich state of Florida. The place we have to travel 1500 miles to recruit. According to rvls they’ve finished ahead of us in the rankings every year and have multiple 4 star kids, but I don’t care what the rankings say I care what my eyes say. They appeared bigger and faster. Their DL was formidable and mostly rushed 4 all game.

I just went and checked the USF roster and the roster says they’re bigger.

Of 17 defensive backs on their roster only 6 are listed under 6-0 tall. That's only 6 of 17. *we have 6 corners listed – 4 of 6 are under 6 feet tall

Of 14 linebackers, they have zero listed under 6-0 tall (only 2 are 6-0 the rest are bigger). *we have 12 linebackers listed – 7 of 12 listed as 6 feet or shorter. 3 of those kids start

6 safeties listed. 5-9, 6-2, 6-3, 6-2, 5-10, and 6-3. *we have 8 safeties listed – 5 of 8 listed as under 6 feet tall. 2 are 6-0 tall and Scissum checks in at 6-2

We’re TINY

We’ve upgraded our speed and play making ability by leaps and bounds but now we have to get bigger. We can’t have midget safeties coming up in run support. Or linebackers that weigh less than the running backs they’re defending against.

Everyone railing on South Florida as being the worst team on our schedule needs their head examined. They have 1 bad loss to Maryland. FSU and Memphis are good football teams.

Frankly I predicted a loss at USF so I’m not surprised by the outcome.

I agree, PhatO. Not only does USF's roster show a difference, anyone who watched the game could see it, too. They did have the advantage in size and speed. Our RB's couldn't turn the corners. Our DB's were half a step late. Some will blame coaching. Some will blame recruiting. Hope we play some slower teams going forward.

 

[cuseguy]

Maybe they aren't that good.

Just for yucks.

Virginia's last 3 class rankings, according to Rivals:

2013, #28

2014, #40. ESPN ranked the class #25. It included two 5 star players.

2015, #44

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Maybe they have more talent because they reside in Tampa and the talent rich state of Florida. The place we have to travel 1500 miles to recruit. According to rvls they’ve finished ahead of us in the rankings every year and have multiple 4 star kids, but I don’t care what the rankings say I care what my eyes say. They appeared bigger and faster. Their DL was formidable and mostly rushed 4 all game.

I just went and checked the USF roster and the roster says they’re bigger.

Of 17 defensive backs on their roster only 6 are listed under 6-0 tall. That's only 6 of 17. *we have 6 corners listed – 4 of 6 are under 6 feet tall

Of 14 linebackers, they have zero listed under 6-0 tall (only 2 are 6-0 the rest are bigger). *we have 12 linebackers listed – 7 of 12 listed as 6 feet or shorter. 3 of those kids start

6 safeties listed. 5-9, 6-2, 6-3, 6-2, 5-10, and 6-3. *we have 8 safeties listed – 5 of 8 listed as under 6 feet tall. 2 are 6-0 tall and Scissum checks in at 6-2

We’re TINY

We’ve upgraded our speed and play making ability by leaps and bounds but now we have to get bigger. We can’t have midget safeties coming up in run support. Or linebackers that weigh less than the running backs they’re defending against.

Everyone railing on South Florida as being the worst team on our schedule needs their head examined. They have 1 bad loss to Maryland. FSU and Memphis are good football teams.

Frankly I predicted a loss at USF so I’m not surprised by the outcome.

That is my point. If Shafer has a losing record people should not be pointing to his recruiting as a reason to keep him. USF will most likely not make a Bowl this year playing in the AAC. If they had our schedule they would surely have a losing record. If we have less talent how can we expect to make Bowls?

 

[cuseguy]

We have 5-7 talent based on the schedule we play.

It's going to continue to be baby steps.

 

[RoatanCuse]

Just for yucks.

Virginia's last 3 class rankings, according to Rivals:

2013, #28

2014, #40. ESPN ranked the class #25. It included two 5 star players.

2015, #44

Ouch. This speaks well for their coaching staff. Should be an interesting game.

 

[Alsacs]

If one of SS pluses is his recruiting then we are in trouble.
Recruiting has been on a slight uptick from where it was 3 years ago. However we are now in a P5 conference and have a new IPF which has to help immensely.
We need to play the year out as the offensive improvements have been tremendous from last year. So I give a lot of credit for that along with turnovers and penalties improving.
Our D has been awful overall outside of the URI game.
We need an uptick in recruiting from where we are now.
We are below every ACC team in talent outside of Wake forest.
UVA has way more talent than we do but their coach is the worst in the conference.
We still have 7 games but no bowl would be interesting to see what happens.

 

[MSTiger02]

https://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2016/all/all

Here is a website that makes it easy to compare and sort recruits by school, state, league etc. If you want straight team rankings just change the year. Rivals is generally the most reputable talent grader. Obviously it doesn't take into account scheme, development curve, or work ethic. I checked the ranking of Cuse and USF the past five years.

 

[SWC75]

Just for yucks.

Virginia's last 3 class rankings, according to Rivals:

2013, #28

2014, #40. ESPN ranked the class #25. It included two 5 star players.

2015, #44

How well have they been doing in college?

 

[PhatOrange]

That is my point. If Shafer has a losing record people should not be pointing to his recruiting as a reason to keep him. USF will most likely not make a Bowl this year playing in the AAC. If they had our schedule they would surely have a losing record. If we have less talent how can we expect to make Bowls?

I did say talent was not the reason we lost.

I believe South Florida will make a bowl game.

Shafer has improved recruiting.