The Cooney Issue...

[djcon57]

That being said. Grant was a much better replacement for JS than MG is for Cooney. I concur with that, I just feel the general statement that the offense is doomed w/o Cooney on the floor are being slightly exaggerated.

 

[Brunco]

Cooney's in good company amongst these past board "lightning rods." Macky, Nassib, Rautins, Triche, Jardine, Forth

 

[br801]

That being said. Grant was a much better replacement for JS than MG is for Cooney. I concur with that, I just feel the general statement that the offense is doomed w/o Cooney on the floor are being slightly exaggerated.

I never said the offense would be doomed without Cooney (but perhaps someone else did somewhere in this thread), but there is no question it would become less dynamic and versatile if he is subtracted from the equation.

 

[RoysRunts]

I was surprised to see he got 10 points IIRC, in what was a poor performance from the 3. I do think we have other long distance shooters though. Fair has made some if I am not mistaken, Ennis definitely has and even Gbinije has sunk a few. I hope the latter takes more shots as he seems to sink them all.

Cooney rushs it at times and I'd like to see some of the Old plays that were set up for Jimmy Lee at the top of the key (For Cooney) buit i'm sure JB would'nt go into that Old file......

 

[moqui]

Cooney's 22% (7 for 32) from three in the last three games is no more indicative of his "true" 3 pt. percentage than the 63% (12 for 19) he shot in the three games immediately prior.

both are examples of regression to the mean; the mean looks like it is going to settle in somewhere between 35% and 45%

sorry but i respectably disagree. he shot 26% on a fairly large sample size last year.
not saying he hasn't improved . but just not so much in the ACC sample we've seen so far.

you don't have to look at last year in a vacuum, though. Last year was a sample, this year is a sample; put them together and he's a career 35% shooter so far. There is no more need to worry about last year's 26% than there is to assume the OOC 50% mark was going to be maintained.

To me, it appeared that TC had issues dealing with pressure last year. It has been great to see TC show he can handle the role of starting 2g and hit at a great pace in the home OOC portion, that is a huge step. The next step is to see if TC can perform under increased pressure. To date, he has not responded well. Any way you slice the data, home > away, OOC > in-conference, the greater the pressure the smaller the 3pt%.

frankly, this doesn't make any sense. there was no pressure yesterday; the outcome was never in doubt after the 10 minute mark. yesterday's 2 for 12 has no correlation to "pressure." The Cornell game, however, the team was in danger of an embarrassing loss to the worst team in D1, but Cooney carried the team to victory. Similarly, the team dodged an embarrassing bullet vs. St. Francis. The Minnesota game was close fought, and a first round loss in Maui would have changed the complexion of the season, and Cooney's shooting was a huge factor. They were not name opponents, but they were close, critical wins and in those pressure situations, he shot 58% (14 for 24). This is not to make an argument that he is necessarily a "clutch" shooter, just to shoot down your implication that he is a choker.

 

[orangefan13]

Cooney could have went 4-6 of 12 yesterday. He didn't but could have imo.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Cooney is athletic. For example, who would you rather have finishing a fast break; Ennis or Cooney? That makes me question why he does not show an ability to create space. Imagine if he had a jab step, a ball fake or a little shake and bake so that he could shoot where and when he wants to instead of when he gets a split second opportunity on the run. If Cooney were to take this next step his shooting % would be more consistent and he would be able to play for pay in the future. He would also draw more fouls.

There is talk that he should work inside before going out; ie drive a few times before popping a 3. That is not realistic. However, it is realistic to expect him to be able to create space after catching the ball. 90% of his focus is on catching the ball in a gap. Every now and then he uses a dribble to get to a better space, but he never tries to fake out his defender. I have no doubt that he is a good enough athlete and that he would be better off, and the team would be better off, if he takes this next step.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I stand by my OP, "shaky potatoes" when its go time. He needs to lay off the red bull, nervous wreck out there compared to the cool customer that Ennis is. I suppose they are a good match.

 

[themorey]

In ACC play the teams are playing him tighter and I would like to see him develop a shot fake from behind the 3. Get his guy in the air and either get fouled or try the dribble drive. Seems like the next progression of his game.

Wow, is "The Coon" following me on SF.com???? Ask and ye shall receive...i counted at 3 instances of his pump fake last night and then a blow by to the rim. Giddy up!

Hey Gerry Cooney, as long as your following this thread, how about some fake passes next?

 

[br801]

I stand by my OP, "shaky potatoes" when its go time. He needs to lay off the red bull, nervous wreck out there compared to the cool customer that Ennis is. I suppose they are a good match.

Try reading the last part of moqui's post (#55) just above, which was written before the BC game.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Try reading the last part of moqui's post (#55) just above, which was written before the BC game.

I didn't want to respond to moqui's post because it would look like hater speak. But I also didn't think any respected poster (yes, that means you br801) would buy what he was saying. There is just no way humanly possible to equate an in-conference game against UNC to an OOC game against Cornell, in terms of pre-game pressure. To retroactively assign pressure because a game ends up close is just not the same as pressure going into a game.

Kudos to the staff, for what I believe is a solid strategy of addressing what I believe is needed in TC's development.

So, if in TC's fifth conference game he hits or exceeds his season average of 3 pt %, for the first time, people can choose whether TC is developing and improving or if it was just a small sample size.

 

[HarrisonJBounel]

If Cooney develops the confidence, like he did last night, to put the ball on the floor and explode to the rim in the half-court and transition game, that will make us all the more dangerous and difficult team to guard. It's an element that could use some improvement for us as a team, and if he can provide it, that will be sweet.

 

[OrangeViking]

With the help of GMac, Cooney is turning himself into a warrior. This kid is tough, and getting tougher.

 

[CaptainJ]

This kid is tough, and getting tougher.

Indeed.

 

[Orangezoo]

Using 3pt % as a measuring stick for Trevor is going to become less and less useful if he attacks like he did last night. He and Ennis are growing as a tandem in the zone and learning how to get more easy buckets like we did last year. Trevor doesn't need to make 4 three point shots a game. The threat of him making that many coupled with using the bounce to attack the rim will force teams to respect his drive more. The fact he is well built and athletic will get him more foul shots as he gets more and more comfortable with that part of his game. Enn

Also the more he gets comfortable with his handle the more likely Ennis can get 2-3 chances a game to spot up for an open 3 which so far he has done a nice job knocking down. This gives us the ability to force the defense to go unbalanced more often to make the game easier. I would say that trevor is developing nicely. He had a bad game shooting too many 3s and comes back looking to attack more even while not feeling well.

 

[moqui]

I didn't want to respond to moqui's post because it would look like hater speak. But I also didn't think any respected poster (yes, that means you br801) would buy what he was saying. There is just no way humanly possible to equate an in-conference game against UNC to an OOC game against Cornell, in terms of pre-game pressure. .

well, Cornell is not the only game I mentioned, but the sum total doesn't fit your narrative so it is not surprising that you ignore it.

in terms of pre-game pressure. To retroactively assign pressure because a game ends up close is just not the same as pressure going into a game.

so, only pre-game pressure counts as pressure? Up 19 with under 5 to play is "pressure" because of the name on the front of the jersey, but down 4 to SF-Brookly with under 4 to play is of little import, because there was no "pre-game pressure." Got it.

So, if in TC's fifth conference game he hits or exceeds his season average of 3 pt %, for the first time, people can choose whether TC is developing and improving or if it was just a small sample size.

half way through the season, the second leading scorer on the #2 ranked team in the nation, a kid who ranks #34 among all players in division 1 in offensive efficiency and #13 in steal percentage, still needs to prove his development.

Let me ask you this: if 17 games is too small a sample size for Cooney, that would have to mean that your jury is still out on Ennis, too. Wonder why there are no screeds coming from you questioning him?

 

[TBCuse11]

Using 3pt % as a measuring stick for Trevor is going to become less and less useful if he attacks like he did last night. He and Ennis are growing as a tandem in the zone and learning how to get more easy buckets like we did last year. Trevor doesn't need to make 4 three point shots a game. The threat of him making that many coupled with using the bounce to attack the rim will force teams to respect his drive more. The fact he is well built and athletic will get him more foul shots as he gets more and more comfortable with that part of his game. Enn

Also the more he gets comfortable with his handle the more likely Ennis can get 2-3 chances a game to spot up for an open 3 which so far he has done a nice job knocking down. This gives us the ability to force the defense to go unbalanced more often to make the game easier. I would say that trevor is developing nicely. He had a bad game shooting too many 3s and comes back looking to attack more even while not feeling well.

yes, i agree with this. People, like myself, who are not in love with Cooney have been begging him to drive the ball. He is not a great shooter when it matters , but he can be more than useful if he plays like yesterday. Granted, this was a horrible BC team, but it was great to see him be aggressive. He still missed a number of wide open threes, however, yet again. I wonder how many bad games in a row before we can stop calling it a slump.

PS - we lose yesterday without Cooney playing how we did, and that is all that matters in the end.

 

[orangejunkie]

Don't get the criticism of Cooney. Most 3 point shooters have games when the 3 pt shot isn't falling. He is just a very good basketball player. He doesn't have elite athleticism a la Dion Waiters but for comparison sake neither did Rautins. Don't have the stats but not sure Rautins was really a dynamic shooter until his 3rd or 4th years. Cooney is more athletic than Rautins, time will tell if he can develop that elite level shot that Rautins had. In the meantime fans should be celebrating his terrific all around play.

 

[rrlbees]

yes, i agree with this. People, like myself, who are not in love with Cooney have been begging him to drive the ball. He is not a great shooter when it matters , but he can be more than useful if he plays like yesterday. Granted, this was a horrible BC team, but it was great to see him be aggressive. He still missed a number of wide open threes, however, yet again. I wonder how many bad games in a row before we can stop calling it a slump. PS - we lose yesterday without Cooney playing how we did, and that is all that matters in the end.

2-5 is bad? I'll take 40% from 3 all day long.

 

[orangefan13]

Agree 2-5 is good but more importantly we can't settle for 6 ppg from cooney and that isn't going to happen.

 

[RandygoCuse]

For me, it is reason number one. Someone created a post before the season began asking people to guess the over/under. I forget the exact amount (around 8 or 9) but I picked the under. Needless to say, I've been pleasantly surprised at his production. So when he has a bad shooting night a little voice in the back of my head starts wondering if he is going to revert to last season. But I think he'll be OK. I like his shot selection. Even when his shots aren't falling, he doesn't go crazy forcing bad shots. Nor is he reluctant to shoot. He simply tries to create good opportunities and help in other ways.

 

[Cusefan0307]

At this point the haters are just cherry picking data. Do the haters realize we aren't undefeated without Trevor, because his backup provides zero offense. I bet you Duke or UNC wish they had Trevor Cooney at the two, I'd like to hear from the skeptics who in the conference would be better at the two than him?

 

[Orangezoo]

yes, i agree with this. People, like myself, who are not in love with Cooney have been begging him to drive the ball. He is not a great shooter when it matters , but he can be more than useful if he plays like yesterday. Granted, this was a horrible BC team, but it was great to see him be aggressive. He still missed a number of wide open threes, however, yet again. I wonder how many bad games in a row before we can stop calling it a slump.

PS - we lose yesterday without Cooney playing how we did, and that is all that matters in the end.

Im not sure we are on the same page. Cooney is a really good shooter. The driving element is what is needed to help him have more time and space for his shot. His misses were close or in and out the mark of a good shooter.

 

[TBCuse11]

At this point the haters are just cherry picking data. Do the haters realize we aren't undefeated without Trevor, because his backup provides zero offense. I bet you Duke or UNC wish they had Trevor Cooney at the two, I'd like to hear from the skeptics who in the conference would be better at the two than him?

No one here hates Trevor Cooney. How old are you 12?

 

[TBCuse11]

Im not sure we are on the same page. Cooney is a really good shooter. The driving element is what is needed to help him have more time and space for his shot. His misses were close or in and out the mark of a good shooter.

Yeah, u are right... we arent. My bad. I think Trevor is a good shooter. Not even close to great. The sign of a great shooter is making shots, not talking about how a handful of his last 33 three point shots (of which he made 6) were "close to going in."

He could be great, he really could, but he is far from it right now. And people with this view are called "haters" which is the funny part.