The Downside- Miami | Syracusefan.com

The Downside- Miami

SWC75

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- I came into both this and the Pitt game with low expectations. We seemed to be a flawed team playing two of the better teams in the conference on the road and not only unlikely to win but likely to get badly beaten. My pessimism anesthetized me from the pain of defeat to some extent but I was concerned about the attitude of the team coming out of these games. Then the games turned out to be very winnable. We lead through much of them, only to let them slip way down the stretch. Now I see these games as major opportunities for big wins that would have held us in very good stead in all our goals- continuing the streak of winning seasons, competing for the conference title, getting back to the NCAA tournament, etc. But our hands are empty.

- Michael Gbinije has grown from a supporting player to a star before our eyes. The downside of that is that the other teams are gamep0lanning to stop him. They’ll have multiple defenders in his face for 40 minutes. That produces constant discouragement and fatigue beyond just him minutes played. He also feels the pressure of having to “carry the team” because his teammates either don’t have the ability to do so or aren’t consistent enough. These last two games two very good defensive teams have been certain to make his on-court life as difficult as possible. The result is that he’s been 7 for 26 from the field and 1 for 11 from three point range. In this game he also had 8 turnovers. It’s worked so obviously they’ll keep doing it. It does help that when Mike’s gotten to the line he’s been unable to make them pay: 9 for 19. They’ll keep putting him on the line, too, until he finds a way to make that a bad strategy.

- Our “net points” for this game: Mal Richardson and Tyler Lydon each 15. Very good Tyler Roberson: 3, Chinoso Obokoh: 0, DaJuan Coleman: -1, Trevor Cooney -3, Kaleb Joseph: -4, Michael Gbinije, the team’s star: -5. That’s bad, very bad.

- Our backcourt consisted of Michael Gbinije, Trevor Cooney and Kaleb Joseph. They were a combined 5 for 24 from the field and 1 for 13 from the arc with 10 turnovers.

- Our three point shooting in the first 6 games: 60 for 146 (.411). The 9 games since: 67 of 215 (.312). it’s not so much a team strength as it is, in the words of the Geico commercial, “what we do”.

- Our lack of a true point guard really hurts us against the aggressive defensive teams like Miami. And with the word out, aggressive defensive teams are likely to be all we will face the rest of the way. Gbinje can bring the ball up and they ever had to take him off that because it was wearing him out. They actually had Richardson bringing the ball up in his place. Frank Howard: get well- and get good- soon!

- Mike Hopkins is now 4-4 in his coaching tenure. I think it’s too short a sample under far less than ideal conditions, to make any judgements about his abilities as a head coach. Nut one trend I’ve noticed has been a tendency for the team to get off to bad starts in games. We were behind early against both St. John’s and Georgetown and never quite made it back into those games. We were ahead of Colgate 33-22 and Cornell 30-26 at the half. Vs. Texas Southern it was 40-36 at halftime. Against Pitt we were down 5-13 and struggled the rest of the half to get back to even at halftime, 30-30, (which was actually pretty good, considering. In this game you could say we were off to a good start because we had that 15-0 run to take a 20-9 lead. But both teams were playing horribly at that point. If we’d taken advantage of all our opportunities we’d have been up 30-9, not 20-9. Both the Miami and Pitt games were full of blown lay-ups, early turnovers, (which continued in the Miami game), and loose balls the other team always seemed to get. We have a thin team that’s probably going to struggle down the stretch. We can’t afford to dig holes for ourselves at the beginning of games. Comebacks always take more than the normal output of energy and we have a limited supply.

- Our formula is to stay close enough to the other team on the boards that our advantage in turnovers will make up for it. Against Pitt we got outrebounded by such a margin that that was impossible, (25-43 with turnovers 10-9). In this game the rebounding numbers were absolutely the same for each team: 12 offensive, 29 defensive. Nice. But we had 19 turnovers to their 12. So we were -17 and -7 in what I call “manufactured possessions. And that doesn’t count lose balls, which should be a stat and certainly didn’t favor us.

- We were called for 25 fouls to Miami’s 14. We went to the line 14 times and the Canes went 34 times. Mike Gbinije said after the game that he asked the refs “Why are calling touch fouls on this end and we’re getting hammered on the other end?” and the ref told him “I know, I know, you’re right”. So I guess the refs screwed us. We scored the same number of two point field goals as Miami and four more three point field goals. We were out-scored by 17 points from the foul line. Ball Game.

- There are three statistics I look at in an attempted to see if the officiating seemed one-sided. Players are more likely to get fouled on two point attempts than three point attempts. They are more likely to get fouled in the paint that outside of it. You can compare the number of two point attempts and points in the paint to the number of times the team is fouled. You can also look at the number of fouls shots the fouls produced. Syracuse attempted 4 two point shots and got fouled 14 times. That’s’ a ratio of 2.4 to 1. Pittsburgh attempted 27 two point shots and got fouled 25 times, a ratio of 1.1 to 1. That seems further proof that the refs were biased. But look at the second stat: Syracuse had 16 points in the paint and got fouled 14 times, a 1.1 ratio. Miami had 30 points in the paint and got fouled 25 times, a 1.2 ratio. Pretty close. We attempted 14 free throws on 14 fouls, a 1.0 ratio. They attempted 34 free throws on 25 fouls, a 1.4 ratio. So the refs “put them on the line” more than they did us. Now consider our turnovers: 19 to their 12. Steals were 7-12 and blocks 1-7. Fast break points were 2-20. Miami beat us at our own game: stealing the ball, blocking shots and fastbreaking off those pays for baskets- and trips to the foul line. It wasn’t biased refs that put them on the foul line 34 times. It was our own mistakes and their great defensive plays.
 
Very good writeup. You tend to focus very closely on the stats, which dont really lie, i get it. But theres also the dynamics of the game. And the overiding dynamic i see is we are playing well, playing very hard, very competively for say 30-35 mins but getting dominated at the end of the last 2 acc games, to the tune of something like 34-11. To me it seems somewhat obvious why that dynamic is taking place. The question is- why will it change the rest of the season? I mean i guess theres no reason the pattern cant change given the fact these kids can easily play 40 mins (ie they dont get tired???) but we still have to make the adjustments...
 
Very good writeup. You tend to focus very closely on the stats, which dont really lie, i get it. But theres also the dynamics of the game. And the overiding dynamic i see is we are playing well, playing very hard, very competively for say 30-35 mins but getting dominated at the end of the last 2 acc games, to the tune of something like 34-11. To me it seems somewhat obvious why that dynamic is taking place. The question is- why will it change the rest of the season? I mean i guess theres no reason the pattern cant change given the fact these kids can easily play 40 mins (ie they dont get tired???) but we still have to make the adjustments...

Fatigue is overrated. Its a 40 minute game, not 48. All the time outs. The zone defense. The slow pace of our game play in general. Fact is, the teams figure us out and we are not composed and start playing helter skelter.
 
Fatigue is overrated. Its a 40 minute game, not 48. All the time outs. The zone defense. The slow pace of our game play in general. Fact is, the teams figure us out and we are not composed and start playing helter skelter.
I love when JB points out how we stunk at the beginning of the game and couldn't have been fatigued then.
 
Fatigue is overrated. Its a 40 minute game, not 48. All the time outs. The zone defense. The slow pace of our game play in general. Fact is, the teams figure us out and we are not composed and start playing helter skelter.
I agree, fatigue is overated, these kids dont get tired and can easily play 40 mins. JB says so, i agree w his narrative. however the problem w JBs narrative is that while he is correct, these kids CAN play 40 mins, the REAL question is can these kids play 40 mins AND WIN?? Thats the real question. When there is considerable parity in the college game, you are a team with glaring weaknesses, you have played well such that you have a second half tenous lead or the game is tied late......and one team has gone 8 deep vs another team that has gone 6.5 deep (or we have not rested 3 guys in the 2nd half and other team is giving all their guys a blow) such that the other team is realtively MORE FRESH. ....dont kid yourself for one second, that dynamic will affect the end of the game. It has the last two games. 34-11 to end the last two. That is NOT completely reflective of our teams talent, if it was we would be dominated for the first 35 mins of the game also. The question is can we make adjustments and do something about it...but yes i agree w you, between having a very weak bench and teams figuring us out, and us getting frantic (but i would argue guys not getting blows adds to the helter skelter), it will be a tough adjustment to pull off...
 
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Fatigue is overrated. Its a 40 minute game, not 48. All the time outs. The zone defense. The slow pace of our game play in general. Fact is, the teams figure us out and we are not composed and start playing helter skelter.
And the other thing ill say. If fatigue is so overated, why did the coaches use fatigue as an excuse for the Wisc loss? Of course they didnt use the word fatigue, they used the word scheduling. But still think about it...its an interesting pt that JB brought up...

Edit, Lydon himself said he legs felt like jelly in Wisc game, but fatigue is overated. Maybe maybe not
 
Then there's the fact that Hop had Richardson bringing the ball up late in the game to give Gbinije a break facing the pressure. Fatigue may not prevent you from performing but it can prevent you from performing at your best.
 
If not fatigue, how do you explain getting blown out in the Wisconsin OT, and the final stages of the games at Pitt and at Miami?
Maybe some foul trouble, maybe the inability of Cooney to get his own shot, or the lack of inside scoring and inside defense. But the problems become acute at the end of games and there fatigue has to play into it, at least for some guys.
 
If not fatigue, how do you explain getting blown out in the Wisconsin OT, and the final stages of the games at Pitt and at Miami?
Maybe some foul trouble, maybe the inability of Cooney to get his own shot, or the lack of inside scoring and inside defense. But the problems become acute at the end of games and there fatigue has to play into it, at least for some guys.

We really could use a solid pg at the end of games setting things up for g, Cooney, and Richardson. They are all twos. Biggest thing missing from this team.
 
We really could use a solid pg at the end of games setting things up for g, Cooney, and Richardson. They are all twos. Biggest thing missing from this team.

Yes, even bigger than the lack of a post-up scorer inside or a shot blocking center on defense.
 
If not fatigue, how do you explain getting blown out in the Wisconsin OT, and the final stages of the games at Pitt and at Miami?
Maybe some foul trouble, maybe the inability of Cooney to get his own shot, or the lack of inside scoring and inside defense. But the problems become acute at the end of games and there fatigue has to play into it, at least for some guys.

Fatigue matters. It's a physical game, it's not just like they're running around without any contact, there are a lot of short sprints. You saw a lot of lackadaiscal play at times yesterday, are they lazy, or on tired legs? Who knows I guess. On the missed lob, you could see Lydon getting down court slowly, he definitely wasn't sprinting...was that him being lazy? I doubt it. Is that why he couldn't connect on the finish? Who knows.

Rak at the end of the first half against Wake Forest last year, could barely get up and down the court in the final two minutes...he suddenly turned lazy for two minutes? At different times, players get gassed. Yeah, he might play 90% of first halves without getting winded too badly, but it does happen. Pretending it doesn't seems weird.
 
And the other thing ill say. If fatigue is so overated, why did the coaches use fatigue as an excuse for the Wisc loss? Of course they didnt use the word fatigue, they used the word scheduling. But still think about it...its an interesting pt that JB brought up...

Edit, Lydon himself said he legs felt like jelly in Wisc game, but fatigue is overated. Maybe maybe not

they had just played four games in less than a week. different situation.
 
If not fatigue, how do you explain getting blown out in the Wisconsin OT, and the final stages of the games at Pitt and at Miami?
Maybe some foul trouble, maybe the inability of Cooney to get his own shot, or the lack of inside scoring and inside defense. But the problems become acute at the end of games and there fatigue has to play into it, at least for some guys.
Some teams seem to have a knack for closing out close games. Many Syracuse teams have excelled at this, and I think many of us may have begun taking it for granted. The current team, at least to this point, has struggled in this area. I'm not convinced it's a fatigue issue. I think it's a more a player issue and/or confidence issue.
 
Fatigue:
• Mike G pulled HIMSELF out of the game with fatigue, at around the 12min mark in the second half. I don't remember seeing that from any player on any of our teams. Ever. Maybe I've missed it a few times, but it's rare, no?

• The question isn't whether they can play 40 minutes. It's about what level of effort and effectiveness they can play at during those minutes, factored with whether or not a sub has the competence to play at a more effective level during the first player's absence. There isn't going to be any empirical data to support any of these individual decisions, but you can/should question the rationale.

• We also have to get used to the difference in substitution strategies. JB yanks players when he gets pissed. Hop seems more likely to sub for a purpose or on a schedule. Both have an effect on rest for all but the more 'favored sons.' G and TC seem to be uniquely immune to ire. Sometimes it's hard to tell if that's because of perceived ability, need, experience, or personality.
 
Fatigue:
• Mike G pulled HIMSELF out of the game with fatigue, at around the 12min mark in the second half. I don't remember seeing that from any player on any of our teams. Ever. Maybe I've missed it a few times, but it's rare, no?

• The question isn't whether they can play 40 minutes. It's about what level of effort and effectiveness they can play at during those minutes, factored with whether or not a sub has the competence to play at a more effective level during the first player's absence. There isn't going to be any empirical data to support any of these individual decisions, but you can/should question the rationale.

• We also have to get used to the difference in substitution strategies. JB yanks players when he gets pissed. Hop seems more likely to sub for a purpose or on a schedule. Both have an effect on rest for all but the more 'favored sons.' G and TC seem to be uniquely immune to ire. Sometimes it's hard to tell if that's because of perceived ability, need, experience, or personality.
I dont get the people that dismiss fatigue. G not only pulled himself out in 2nd half but he was making listless plays in the first half. Then you couple that w how weve been utterly dominated at end of certain games. Then you couple that w JB admitting team was too fatigued after Baha going into Wisc game. Then you couple that w our lousy record since JB admitted we were fatigued after Baha.

Now do i think fatigue is this teams only problem? heck no its just part of the equation, but if you look at the last 3 seasons and the lack of bench and the results so far of these last 3 seasons i hope we do something about the bench by next season. We have 11 schollies, no? that should be plenty. We might have 4 legit nba prospects next year (key word might) , Lydon, Mal, Pascal, Battle. i would hate to see a lack of a bench derail a fairly talented team again. Ie the way it derailed a fairly talented group, CJ, Grant, Ennis, Rak, TC two years ago...i mean 3 of those guys wound up drafted ; CJ just missed and is in nba develpmental league now. and yet we completely fizzled at end of season. Weak bench was a very big weakness of that team despite the nba prospects...
 
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Don't mean to be negative but bad teams with bad flaws usually find a way to lose.
 
Don't mean to be negative but bad teams with bad flaws usually find a way to lose.
So true!! But if you are referring to this years SU squad, and i assume you are- I guess you might also be correct of late....altho it wasnt true in Baha...and btw both texam and ucon will probably be ranked next week...
 

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