The Greatest Baseball Player

[Knicks411]

And remember that 8 home runs probably put him among the league leaders. He had almost 2 hits a game for the season.

Tied for second in the AL. 1st in Average, 2nd in OBP, 1st in slugging, first in hits, runs, total bases, doubles, triples, 2nd in hr, first in steals, first in RBI. Not a bad year

 

[Alsacs]

Greatest at every position for me. Babe Ruth #1 overall
1b-Mickey Mantle
2b- Jackie Robinson
3b-Mike Schmidt
SS- Alex Rodriguez
C- Johnny Bench
OF- Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron
LHP- Randy Johnson, Sandy Koufax, Steve Carlton
RHP- Bob Gibson, Greg Maddux, Nolan Ryan, Pedro Martinez
RP- Mariano Rivera,

 

[OrangeDW]

To ever live.

I want to hear a name and a reason (or many reasons) why you're attaching their name to yours.

For the fun of it let's leave out anything that ties them to cheating, addictions, off the field incidents, all of that. Who they were on the diamond and only who they were on the diamond.

Why do I use that as a qualification? Because of my pick.


It's Barry Bonds.



I would LOVE to know why you pick someone other than him. Yes I know who he was as a person and the allegations tied to him but he is the reason I fell in love with baseball statistics. I was a huge fan of baseball and then Barry sent me over the top.

My favorite statistic for Barry?

From 2001-2004, Barry Bonds played in 573 games and reached base in 539 of them. 94% of his games


WHO YA GOT?!

Bonds is the best I've ever seen. And as a Dodgers fan, I rooted against him his entire career, especially his last 14 years or so in SF and found him completely unlikable based on his public persona.

But you flat out couldn't pitch to him. If you nibbled, he had the best eye in the game and would take the walk. And if you threw him a strike, he hammered it. It was incredible.

 

[skurey]

Barry Bonds

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Not the greatest, but maybe the most underrated, is,Eddie Murray.
Murray was a great hitter, one of only four men in history in the 3,000-hit/500-homer club (with Aaron, Mays and Palmeiro.)
Also won multiple gold gloves

 

[skurey]

http://oldtimefamilybaseball.com/post/73935637744/25-greatest-barry-bonds-facts

21. 26.3% of Barry Bonds’ 12,606 career plate appearances ended with a home run or a walk. From 2001-2004, that number was 39.5%.

4. Barry Bonds is the only member of the 500 home runs/500 steals club. He’s also the only member of the 400 home runs/400 steals club.

 

[OrangeDW]

Not the greatest, but maybe the most underrated, is,Eddie Murray.
Murray was a great hitter, one of only four men in history in the 3,000-hit/500-homer club (with Aaron, Mays and Palmeiro.)
Also won multiple gold gloves

Agreed. He didn't give the media anything, so he didn't get hyped up.

If I recall correctly, he was a strong fielder too. He was a consistent .300, 30 HR, 100 RBI's every year. Like clockwork.

 

[obliterata]

Triples are less rare than other hits, it doesn't make them more valuable. A homer is still better than a triple.

Correct, a homer is better.

 

[obliterata]

So, it's harder to hit it just short of the fence than over the fence?

It's considerably harder to hit a triple than it is to hit a home run. Bonds had 762 homers and 77 triples.

 

[IthacaMatt]

It's considerably harder to hit a triple than it is to hit a home run. Bonds had 762 homers and 77 triples.

Cobb had 295 triples in his career and 117 homers.

I see from his stats page, that if you normalized Cobb's career stats to 162 game season, he would have averaged 16 triples a year for 24 years. That's nuts.

 

[skurey]

—If you turned every home run Bonds ever hit into an out, his career on base percentage would be .384, the same as Alex Rodriguez's.

—Bonds's career rWAR of 162.4 is higher than those of Pete Rose and Nolan Ryan combined.

If a player were to go 2/5 in every game with a home run and a single in each game, his batting average would be .400 and he would have 162 home runs. His OPS would still be lower than Bonds' in 2004.

Barry Bonds is 5th in total WAR from 2000-2014 though he hasn't played a game since 2007

 

[IthacaMatt]

It's considerably harder to hit a triple than it is to hit a home run. Bonds had 762 homers and 77 triples.

If you look at hitting as an art, and you appreciate different approaches to hitting in different eras, then you won't just assume that Bonds was a better hitter because he went deep more often. His ballpark, and the way he armored up allowed him to sit out over the plate without fear of getting actually hurt by a brush back pitch that had a big part in his home run records, too. He took the HBP's in stride because he was wearing kevlar.

Ted Williams is acknowledged by our fathers' generation as the greatest natural hitter they saw of the Post-WW II era. That's different than saying Mays was the best all around player. I think Barry Bonds became a feared batter for a number of years late in his career, but it seemed so unnatural. I think that's what turns a lot of people off to him, compared to others who have looked for competitive advantages over the other guy over the years.

People have a real under-appreciation for how remarkable Ty Cobb was. He owned the sport much like Ruth or Michael Jordan or Lawrence Taylor - and for more than a decade of absolute dominance, and then another decade of still winning the odd batting title. He was the best ever - sorry to Jackie Robinson - at stealing home plate. He did it dozens of times, especially early in his career. He absolutely terrorized the opposition and demoralized them. The only thing I've seen remotely close to the impact of Cobb was the impact Ricky Henderson had when he was at his very peak for a few years. Ty Cobb was like that for 20 years at that level. That's how great he was. He averaged .367 over 24 years.

 

[obliterata]

If you look at hitting as an art, and you appreciate different approaches to hitting in different eras, then you won't just assume that Bonds was a better hitter because he went deep more often. His ballpark, and the way he armored up allowed him to sit out over the plate without fear of getting actually hurt by a brush back pitch that had a big part in his home run records, too. He took the HBP's in stride because he was wearing kevlar.

Ted Williams is acknowledged by our fathers' generation as the greatest natural hitter they saw of the Post-WW II era. That's different than saying Mays was the best all around player. I think Barry Bonds became a feared batter for a number of years late in his career, but it seemed so unnatural. I think that's what turns a lot of people off to him, compared to others who have looked for competitive advantages over the other guy over the years.

People have a real under-appreciation for how remarkable Ty Cobb was. He owned the sport much like Ruth or Michael Jordan or Lawrence Taylor - and for more than a decade of absolute dominance, and then another decade of still winning the odd batting title. He was the best ever - sorry to Jackie Robinson - at stealing home plate. He did it dozens of times, especially early in his career. He absolutely terrorized the opposition and demoralized them. The only thing I've seen remotely close to the impact of Cobb was the impact Ricky Henderson had when he was at his very peak for a few years. Ty Cobb was like that for 20 years at that level. That's how great he was. He averaged .367 over 24 years.

Cobb is probably the best non-power hitter of all-time, he put up great numbers in a lot of categories. Home runs are such an important part of baseball and he only had 117, that's why I wouldn't personally consider him for being the greatest. If he averaged 20+ a season instead of less than 5 he'd be in the conversation.

 

[obliterata]

Henry Chadwick, when he basically invented baseball statistics, was first going to evaluate hitters on what we now call slugging percentage. But he'd grown up playing cricket where the artful batter hit the ball between the fielders, not over their heads so he switched to batting average to encourage hitters, just to go for hits, not the long ball. Studies have shown the the relevance of the three main percentages to producing runs is clearly:
1) On base percentage
2 Slugging percentages
3) Batting average, and it's a distant third.

If you're pitching against the Twins, circa 1970, who worries you most: Rod Carew or Harmon Killebrew?

Killebrew, no question. Home runs and power are a big part of the game, that's why I would never consider a player who can't hit a lot of homers "the greatest". Roberto Clemente was a heck of a player but only hit 240 home runs, if he hit 500+ maybe he'd be in the conversation.

What I really like about batting average is that it's power and body type neutral, strong players don't automatically have an advantage over weaker players. This is also why I like triples, doubles, and singles. All players are basically equal concerning these stats, all players can do well or not. Rod Carew was a great player, he had a BA of .328 but only hit 92 home runs. He could compete with Killebrew, Bonds, and everyone else in BA and did. The only chance he had in competing in homers was taking performance enhancing substances. Carew could never be in the conversation of "the greatest" because he wasn't strong enough.

This is my problem with Bonds, power/strength/muscles/drugs couldn't help him as much in these few categories and look what happened - 231st in BA (and not a .300 hitter), 303rd in triples, and 207th in singles (he did do well hitting doubles, he's 14th all-time). Mays and Ruth didn't do nearly as bad. I believe Mays is the only player in history that isn't outside the top 200 in any stat.

Bonds is definitely a better power hitter than Mays and probably Ruth, without the drugs he most probably isn't. If people want to call him the greatest of all-time that's fine with me, I'm just not going to give a .200+ hitter who can't make the top 200 in several stats that title.

 

[skurey]

Mays had 1000 more ABs than Bonds.

 

[Knicks411]

—If you turned every home run Bonds ever hit into an out, his career on base percentage would be .384, the same as Alex Rodriguez's.

—Bonds's career rWAR of 162.4 is higher than those of Pete Rose and Nolan Ryan combined.

If a player were to go 2/5 in every game with a home run and a single in each game, his batting average would be .400 and he would have 162 home runs. His OPS would still be lower than Bonds' in 2004.

Barry Bonds is 5th in total WAR from 2000-2014 though he hasn't played a game since 2007

That first one is incredible.

 

[donniesyracuse]

What I really like about batting average is that it's power and body type neutral, strong players don't automatically have an advantage over weaker players.

Stronger players generate more bat speed, which makes hitting easier. PEDs can definitely improve one's batting average.

 

[SWC75]

Killebrew, no question. Home runs and power are a big part of the game, that's why I would never consider a player who can't hit a lot of homers "the greatest". Roberto Clemente was a heck of a player but only hit 240 home runs, if he hit 500+ maybe he'd be in the conversation.

What I really like about batting average is that it's power and body type neutral, strong players don't automatically have an advantage over weaker players. This is also why I like triples, doubles, and singles. All players are basically equal concerning these stats, all players can do well or not. Rod Carew was a great player, he had a BA of .328 but only hit 92 home runs. He could compete with Killebrew, Bonds, and everyone else in BA and did. The only chance he had in competing in homers was taking performance enhancing substances. Carew could never be in the conversation of "the greatest" because he wasn't strong enough.

This is my problem with Bonds, power/strength/muscles/drugs couldn't help him as much in these few categories and look what happened - 231st in BA (and not a .300 hitter), 303rd in triples, and 207th in singles (he did do well hitting doubles, he's 14th all-time). Mays and Ruth didn't do nearly as bad. I believe Mays is the only player in history that isn't outside the top 200 in any stat.

Bonds is definitely a better power hitter than Mays and probably Ruth, without the drugs he most probably isn't. If people want to call him the greatest of all-time that's fine with me, I'm just not going to give a .200+ hitter who can't make the top 200 in several stats that title.

Barry Bonds was always a great player but I never heard anybody compare him to Babe Ruth until he was on the stuff.

 

[Knicks411]

Barry Bonds was always a great player but I never heard anybody compare him to Babe Ruth until he was on the stuff.

Yeah he was always a great hitter but he was more like Mays until about 2000 or so.

 

[Hoo's That]

Greatest at every position for me. Babe Ruth #1 overall
1b-Mickey Mantle
2b- Jackie Robinson
3b-Mike Schmidt
SS- Alex Rodriguez
C- Johnny Bench
OF- Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron
LHP- Randy Johnson, Sandy Koufax, Steve Carlton
RHP- Bob Gibson, Greg Maddux, Nolan Ryan, Pedro Martinez
RP- Mariano Rivera,

Have to disagree here.

Mantle in the OF. Aaron got the record just by hanging around. He never lead the NL in homers.
Gehrig at 1B. .340 BA and 493 HR.
Tough call for me between Johnson and Whitey Ford for LHP.
I'll take Cy Young (I was shocked by how many records he held) and Walter Johnson over Maddux and Martinez for RHP.

 

[Knicks411]

Don't think Whitey Ford is in the discussion for best left hander of all time. I'll take Randy Johnson. Lefty Grove also in the discussion. You could probably make a pretty good argument for Pujols as best 1B, but maybe he neded a better decline phase. And I like Joe Morgan at 2B.

 

[SWC75]

Have to disagree here.

Mantle in the OF. Aaron got the record just by hanging around. He never lead the NL in homers.
Gehrig at 1B. .340 BA and 493 HR.
Tough call for me between Johnson and Whitey Ford for LHP.
I'll take Cy Young (I was shocked by how many records he held) and Walter Johnson over Maddux and Martinez for RHP.

Hank Aaron led the NL in home runs 4 times.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/aaronha01.shtml

 

[Crusty]

Don't think Whitey Ford is in the discussion for best left hander of all time. I'll take Randy Johnson. Lefty Grove also in the discussion. You could probably make a pretty good argument for Pujols as best 1B, but maybe he neded a better decline phase. And I like Joe Morgan at 2B.

Remember that Ford played in Casey Stengel's 5 man rotation or he would have won a lot more games. He was one of the best clutch pitchers of all time. His WS scoreless inning streak of 33 2/3 innings broke Ruth's record of 29 2/3, which Babe held for 43 years.
He had s winning percentage of .690, which I think may still be the best in the modern era.
They didn't call him the Chairman of the Board for nothing.

 

[Knicks411]

Remember that Ford played in Casey Stengel's 5 man rotation or he would have won a lot more games. He was one of the best clutch pitchers of all time. His WS scoreless inning streak of 33 2/3 innings broke Ruth's record of 29 2/3, which Babe held for 43 years.
He had s winning percentage of .690, which I think may still be the best in the modern era.
They didn't call him the Chairman of the Board for nothing.

Ford was really good but he also pitched on some great teams. Nothing against him, I just think Johnson/Carlton/Grove are better

 

[Crusty]

Ford was really good but he also pitched on some great teams. Nothing against him, I just think Johnson/Carlton/Grove are better

That speaks to wins but not to things like scoreless innings or WS records where he faced the best teams from the National League. I think he is certainly in the conversation.