SWC75
Bored Historian
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Jim Boeheim has been to 28 NCAA tournaments prior to this year. He has a total record of 45 wins and 27 losses. That’s a good record but there’s a ‘bell curve’ look to it. From 1977-1986, his record was 7 wins and 8 losses. From 2004 to 2011 t is 7 wins and 6 losses, a total of 14-14 for those two periods. From 1987-2003, his record was 31 wins a 13 losses. It’s hard to figure why he was a ‘better’ NCAA coach in the middle period. At the beginning of that period we had probably more talent than we have ever had here. But that had begun to build up before 1987 and the probation set us back after the 1990-991 season. We’ve arguably recruited better in the 2000’s than we did in the 90’s. Maybe JB was still learning the jog in the early years and has become too set in his ways in later years. Or maybe the pattern is caused by other facts less apparent. Or maybe it’s just random.
Here is a breakdown by rounds:
Round of 64: 19-4 (plus 5 byes)
Round of 32: 15-9
Sweet 16: 4-11
Elite 8: 3-1
Final Four: 3-0
Championship Game: 1-2
Why has he been so successful in the early and late rounds, (we would be 2-1 in the title game if we’d made a couple of foul shots in ’87), but had such trouble in the Sweet 16? One theory is that the Round of 64 team is too weak to beat Syracuse, the round of 32 team could beat them but doesn’t have enough preparation time for the zone and the Sweet 16 team does. But what about the teams beyond that? Maybe they are playing our strongest teams that don’t need a “different” defense in order to beat them. But our opposition was their best teams as well. Again, it could just be a fluke. Maybe the ten games we’ve played after the Sweet 16 just isn’t enough of a sample to draw conclusions from.
I decided to look at a round by round break down of some other noted coaches. I’ll stick to the “modern” era, coaches whose primary career was in the 1980’s, 1990s and the current century. Before that college basketball wasn’t as nationally popular as it is now the tournament wasn’t seeded and balanced as it is now. Consolation games are not included.
Larry Brown R64 6-0 R32 4-3 S16 3-1 E8 3-0 FF 2-1 NC 1-1 Total: 19-6
Jim Calhoun R64 18-4 R32 13-4 S16 9-3 E8 4-4 FF 3-1 NC 3-0 Total: 50-12
John Calipari R64 12-1 R32 9-3 S16 7-2 E8 3-4 FF 1-2 NC 0-1 Total: 32-13
Denny Crum R64 10-3 R32 14-5 S16 7-9 E8 6-1 FF 2-4 NC 2-0 Total: 41-22
Billy Donovan R64 8-3 R32 5-3 S16 4-1 E8 3-1 FF 3-0 NC 2-1 Total: 25-9
Bob Huggins R64 15-4 R32 5-10 S16 4-2 E8 2-2 FF 0-2 NC 0-0 Total: 26-20
Tom Izzo R64 10-4 R32 9-1 S16 7-2 E8 6-1 FF 2-4 NC 1-1 Total: 35-13
Bob Knight R64 10-10 R32 14-4 S16 10-5 E8 5-3 FF 3-2 NC 3-0 Total: 45-24
Mike Krzyzewski R64 24-2 R32 20-5 S16 12-7 E8 11-1 FF 8-3 NC 4-4 Total: 79-22
Thad Matta R64 8-1 R32 4-4 S16 2-2 E8 1-1 FF 1-0 NC 0-1 Total: 16-8
Lute Olson R64 17-9 R32 13-6 S16 8-5 E8 5-3 FF 1-4 NC 1-0 Total: 45-27
Rick Pitino R64 12-3 R32 9-3 S16 7-1 E8 5-3 FF 2-3 NC 1-1 Total: 36-14
Nolan Richardson R64 10-4 R32 6-6 S16 4-2 E8 3-1 FF 2-1 NC 1-1 Total: 26-15
Bill Self R64 11-2 R32 8-3 S16 6-2 E8 1-5 FF 1-0 NC 1-0 Total: 28-12
Dean Smith R64 13-0 R32 17-6 S16 15-6 E8 11-4 FF 6-5 NC 3-3 Total: 65-24
Eddie Sutton R64 15-4 R32 13-8 S16 6-7 E8 4-2 FF 0-4 NC 0-0 Total: 38-25
Jerry Tarkanian R64 9-1 R32 13-4 S16 7-5 E8 4-3 FF 1-3 NC 1-0 Total: 35-16
John Thompson II R64 12-2 R32 8-9 S16 7-1 E8 3-4 FF 3-0 NC 1-2 Total: 34-18
Gary Williams R64 14-2 R32 8-6 S16 2-7 E8 2-0 FF 1-1 NC 1-0 Total: 26-16
Roy Williams R64 21-0 R32 14-7 S16 10-4 E8 7-3 FF 3-4 NC 2-1 Total: 57-19
(Note: the wins in the first two round don’t always add up to the games in the next round due to byes before 1985, when we went to 64.)
What’s interesting is the rounds that certain coaches seem to struggle in. Why is Bobby Knight 10-10 in the round of 64 while Mike Krzyzewski is 24-2 and Dean Smith is 21-0? Why is Knight 3-0 in championship games while Coach K is 4-4 and Smith is 3-3? Why is Bob Huggins 5-10 in the Round of 32? Why is John Thompson 8-9 in that round? Why is Jim Boeheim 4-11 in the Sweet 16 and 7-3 after that? Why is Denny Crum 7-9 in that round and 6-1 in the next round? Why is Bill Self 1-5 in the Elite 8? Why is Eddie Sutton 0-4 in the Final Four? Why did Knight go down in the first round 10 times and win three titles? Why did Olson go down in the first round 9 times and in other years made it to five Final Fours? Why has Izzo made it to 6 Final Fours and yet gone out in the first round four times, same as Huggins? Why did Gary Williams go 11-1 in 2001-2002 and 15-15 the rest of his career?
Frankly, I have no idea. The only thing I can offer is that everyone you play in the NCAA tournament can beat you and when you lose, regardless of the round, you tend to lose for the same reasons. Why a coach would have a particular problem in one round is hard to figure. I may be just a random thing. When things are random they aren’t necessarily even. The most successful NCAA coaches don’t have an “Ides of March” round sp they get more teams into the Final Four and win more titles there. They don’t win those titles because they are geniuses and the other coaches aren’t.
The coaches can create a foundation for success but the players have to win the games. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don’t.
Here is a breakdown by rounds:
Round of 64: 19-4 (plus 5 byes)
Round of 32: 15-9
Sweet 16: 4-11
Elite 8: 3-1
Final Four: 3-0
Championship Game: 1-2
Why has he been so successful in the early and late rounds, (we would be 2-1 in the title game if we’d made a couple of foul shots in ’87), but had such trouble in the Sweet 16? One theory is that the Round of 64 team is too weak to beat Syracuse, the round of 32 team could beat them but doesn’t have enough preparation time for the zone and the Sweet 16 team does. But what about the teams beyond that? Maybe they are playing our strongest teams that don’t need a “different” defense in order to beat them. But our opposition was their best teams as well. Again, it could just be a fluke. Maybe the ten games we’ve played after the Sweet 16 just isn’t enough of a sample to draw conclusions from.
I decided to look at a round by round break down of some other noted coaches. I’ll stick to the “modern” era, coaches whose primary career was in the 1980’s, 1990s and the current century. Before that college basketball wasn’t as nationally popular as it is now the tournament wasn’t seeded and balanced as it is now. Consolation games are not included.
Larry Brown R64 6-0 R32 4-3 S16 3-1 E8 3-0 FF 2-1 NC 1-1 Total: 19-6
Jim Calhoun R64 18-4 R32 13-4 S16 9-3 E8 4-4 FF 3-1 NC 3-0 Total: 50-12
John Calipari R64 12-1 R32 9-3 S16 7-2 E8 3-4 FF 1-2 NC 0-1 Total: 32-13
Denny Crum R64 10-3 R32 14-5 S16 7-9 E8 6-1 FF 2-4 NC 2-0 Total: 41-22
Billy Donovan R64 8-3 R32 5-3 S16 4-1 E8 3-1 FF 3-0 NC 2-1 Total: 25-9
Bob Huggins R64 15-4 R32 5-10 S16 4-2 E8 2-2 FF 0-2 NC 0-0 Total: 26-20
Tom Izzo R64 10-4 R32 9-1 S16 7-2 E8 6-1 FF 2-4 NC 1-1 Total: 35-13
Bob Knight R64 10-10 R32 14-4 S16 10-5 E8 5-3 FF 3-2 NC 3-0 Total: 45-24
Mike Krzyzewski R64 24-2 R32 20-5 S16 12-7 E8 11-1 FF 8-3 NC 4-4 Total: 79-22
Thad Matta R64 8-1 R32 4-4 S16 2-2 E8 1-1 FF 1-0 NC 0-1 Total: 16-8
Lute Olson R64 17-9 R32 13-6 S16 8-5 E8 5-3 FF 1-4 NC 1-0 Total: 45-27
Rick Pitino R64 12-3 R32 9-3 S16 7-1 E8 5-3 FF 2-3 NC 1-1 Total: 36-14
Nolan Richardson R64 10-4 R32 6-6 S16 4-2 E8 3-1 FF 2-1 NC 1-1 Total: 26-15
Bill Self R64 11-2 R32 8-3 S16 6-2 E8 1-5 FF 1-0 NC 1-0 Total: 28-12
Dean Smith R64 13-0 R32 17-6 S16 15-6 E8 11-4 FF 6-5 NC 3-3 Total: 65-24
Eddie Sutton R64 15-4 R32 13-8 S16 6-7 E8 4-2 FF 0-4 NC 0-0 Total: 38-25
Jerry Tarkanian R64 9-1 R32 13-4 S16 7-5 E8 4-3 FF 1-3 NC 1-0 Total: 35-16
John Thompson II R64 12-2 R32 8-9 S16 7-1 E8 3-4 FF 3-0 NC 1-2 Total: 34-18
Gary Williams R64 14-2 R32 8-6 S16 2-7 E8 2-0 FF 1-1 NC 1-0 Total: 26-16
Roy Williams R64 21-0 R32 14-7 S16 10-4 E8 7-3 FF 3-4 NC 2-1 Total: 57-19
(Note: the wins in the first two round don’t always add up to the games in the next round due to byes before 1985, when we went to 64.)
What’s interesting is the rounds that certain coaches seem to struggle in. Why is Bobby Knight 10-10 in the round of 64 while Mike Krzyzewski is 24-2 and Dean Smith is 21-0? Why is Knight 3-0 in championship games while Coach K is 4-4 and Smith is 3-3? Why is Bob Huggins 5-10 in the Round of 32? Why is John Thompson 8-9 in that round? Why is Jim Boeheim 4-11 in the Sweet 16 and 7-3 after that? Why is Denny Crum 7-9 in that round and 6-1 in the next round? Why is Bill Self 1-5 in the Elite 8? Why is Eddie Sutton 0-4 in the Final Four? Why did Knight go down in the first round 10 times and win three titles? Why did Olson go down in the first round 9 times and in other years made it to five Final Fours? Why has Izzo made it to 6 Final Fours and yet gone out in the first round four times, same as Huggins? Why did Gary Williams go 11-1 in 2001-2002 and 15-15 the rest of his career?
Frankly, I have no idea. The only thing I can offer is that everyone you play in the NCAA tournament can beat you and when you lose, regardless of the round, you tend to lose for the same reasons. Why a coach would have a particular problem in one round is hard to figure. I may be just a random thing. When things are random they aren’t necessarily even. The most successful NCAA coaches don’t have an “Ides of March” round sp they get more teams into the Final Four and win more titles there. They don’t win those titles because they are geniuses and the other coaches aren’t.
The coaches can create a foundation for success but the players have to win the games. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don’t.
