SWC75
Bored Historian
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I’ve been watching a bunch of ‘team history’ DVDs I got back in the 2000’s from NFL Films. One of them was of the San Francisco 49ers and another of the New England Patriots. I noticed how similar their histories seem, at least during their greatest periods, which for the Niners was 1981-2002 and Patriots from 2001-2022:
Niners: San Francisco 49ers Team Records, Leaders, and League Ranks | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Patriots: New England Patriots Team Records, Leaders, and League Ranks | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Here’s a side-by-side, year-by-year comparison of those eras with a declared winner of each sister season, (if there was one):
1981/2001: The Niners were 13-3 (357-250, 22-16) and then beat the Giants 38-24, the Cowboys in a 28-27 classic and then the Bengals 26-21 in the SB, the first Super Bowl with two teams that had never been in it since the first one. I remember being thankful that we’d finally gotten some new blood in the big game and wondering if either team would have the staying power to be the sport’s next dynasty.
The Pats were 11-5, (371-272, 23-17) and then began what would be a trend for them: post-season nail biters, beating Oakland in a snowstorm on the “tuck play”, 16-13, then the Steeler 24-17 and then they played the team everybody thought was the next dynasty, the St. Louis Rams, in the SB. It looked like it might be the first OT SB when the Rams rallied form down 3-17 going into the final quarter to tied it at 17 with 1:30 left but Young Tom Brady drove his team down the field and Ada, Vinatieri kicked a 48 yarder, (eat your heart out, Scott Norwood), to win it 20-17 on the final play.
Result: tie.
1982/2002: Both teams fell back, the Niners, in the first strike year, (but they didn’t use replacement players) all the way to 3-6, although they out-scored their opponents 209-206, (23-23, so the problem was on defense, not offense), and finished 3rd in the NFC West, not making the playoffs in a year when 16 of 28 teams did.
The Patriots did better, finishing 9-7, (381-346, 24-22), finishing second in the AFC East but also missing the playoffs. Maybe Walsh and Belichick weren’t geniuses after all.
Winner: Patriots
1983/2003: Both teams came back. The Niners were 10-6 but won the division with a potent 432-293 (27-18). The nipped the Lions 24-23 in the D-round but were nipped by the defending champion Redskins, who seemed invincible after going 14-2, scoring 541 points, crushing the Rams 51-7 and building up a 21-0 lead on the Niners going into the 4th quarter. But Joe Montana rallied the team with three fourth quarter touchdowns to tie the game. A final Redskin drive, aided by two questionable defensive penalties, produced the winning field goal. The skins were unable to get the wheels back on for the Super Bowl: The Raiders blew them out 9-38. Meanwhile the Niners had plenty of momentum for the next season.
The Patriots looked awful in opening the season with a 0-31 loss in Buffalo. They lost to the Redskins 17-20 in game four to go 2-2. They then set an NFL record by winning their next 21 games in a row, including the SB over the upstart Carolina Panthers, 32-29 on another last play Vinatieri FG. It was a weird game in which neither team scored in the first or third quarters but the second was 14-10 and the third 18-19. They’d finished the regular season by beating the Bills by that same 31-0 score in Foxboro and finished 14-2, (348-238, 22-15).
Winner: Patriots
1984/2004: Both teams won it all but the Niners were something special. This team is considered their greatest: 15-1 (475-227, 30-14). They whipped the Giants, 21-10, shut out the Bears 23-0 and crushed Dan Marino’s greatest Dolphin team 38-16 in the big game. I don’t pick this as their greatest team because of one missing element: Jerry Rice was a rookie the next year.
The Pats were no slouch, again going 14-2 (437-260, 27-16) and holding Peyton Manning’s Colts, who had been averaging 33ppg to 3 in a 20-3 win. Manning had broken the passing TD record of 48 Marino had set back in ’84 with 49 but couldn’t find the end zone vs. the Pats, who then whipped the Steelers 41-27 before beating Donovan McNabb’s Eagles 24-21 in the SB, with still another Vinatieri FG being the margin of victory, even though it didn’t come on the last play.
Winner: It would have been a heck of a game but it’s the Niners.
1985/2005: The Niners were not quite ready to be a dynasty yet and slipped back to 10-6 but still a potent 411-263, (26-16). But the Giants shut them down, 3-17 in the playoffs. This year belonged to the Bears.
The Pats also went 10-6, a less potent 379-338, (24-21). The crushed the Jaguars 28-3 in the playoffs but then got beat in Denver 13-27.
Winner: Niners
1986/2006: The Niners continued to stumble, going 10-5 plus the only tie either team had in their respective periods, 10-10 to Atlanta. They still out-scored their opponents 374-247, (23-15). They then got humiliated by the Giants in the playoffs, 3-49, (nobody ever did that to the Pats, although the Bills came close a couple of years ago). Montana suffered a spinal injury early in the year and was advised to retire but he came back seven weeks later.
The Pats went 12-4, (385-237, 24-15). They clobbered the Jets 37-16 and nipped the Chargers 24-21 but finally got beat by the Colts, 34-38 in the AFC championship game.
Winner: Pats
1987/2007: 1987 was the second strike year, the one they used replacement players and the Niners had the best ones, steaming to a league best 13-2, 459-253, (31-17) record. Unfortunately, they under-estimated the Vikings, who built a 20-3 halftime lead and matched scored in the second half for a 36-24 win- in San Francisco! I watched that game, and it looked like the Niners thought they would win because they were the 13-2 Niners and they were the 8-7-1 Vikings. But anybody can beat you, especially in the playoffs. It was a lesson the Niners remembered through the next two years.
As strong as the ’87 Niners were, they were not as good as the ’07 Patriots, who may have been the greatest team of all time. They won all 16 regular season games by a combined 589-274 (37-17). Nobody came within 17 points of them in their first 8 games when they meet the defending champion and also undefeated Colts in one of the great regular season games of all time. The Colts built up a 20-10 fourth quarter lead but could not hold on. Both former SU stars, Dwight Freeney and Marvin Harrison were out for this game, and I recall that Marvin’s replacement dropped a third down pass that might have clinched it. Also, the Colts were unable to pressure Brady as he drove his team to two fourth quarter TDs to win it, 24-20. The Pats went back to crushing teams the next week, obliterating the Bills 56-10. They kept winning after that, but the games started being uncomfortably close: they beat McNabb’s Eagles by 3; the ravens had them beat, stopping a 4th down, but their DC had called a time out as the ball was snapped: the Pats went on to win by 3. They handled the Steelers 34-17, beat the Jets 20-10, then the Dolphins 28-7.
Their last game was against Tom Coughlin’s 10-5 Giants. I recall a debate on this board about whether the Giants should accept that they can’t compete with this team and ‘tank’ the game to save his starters. Those in favor of that plan seemed to be in the majority. Tom disagreed: he wanted his team to prove they could compete with the Pats. The result was a 38-35 game in which the Patriots had to rally from a 16-28 deficit to win. The Pats moved on through the playoffs, but it wasn’t easy: 31-20 over the Jaguars and 21-12 over the Chargers. Then they faced the Giants again with a chance to go 20-0 and top the achievement of my favorite all-time team, my beloved 1972 Dolphins. But the Giants had fought their way to the big game, beating the Bucs 24-14, the Cowboys 21-17, and the Packers 23-20, all on the road. And they knew they could compete with the Patriots. It was New England 7, New York 3 at the half and going into the 4th quarter. Former Orangeman David Tyree caught a 5 yard pass from Eli Manning with 11:05 left to give the Giants a 10-7 lead. The Patriots took the lead back with 2:42 left when Brady hit Randy Moss with a 6 yarder. With 1:15 left the Giants had a 3rd and 5 from their 44 when Manning had to scramble and barely got a pass off to Tyree downfield, which David pinned against his helmet for a 32 yard gain. Manning was sacked on the next play and threw an incompletion but then hit Steve Smith for 12 yards to the Pat 13, then Plaxico Burress in the end zone with 39 seconds left to make it 17-14. The Giants defense then rose up and engulfed Tom Brady with a sack and three incompletions, the last a desperation deep shot to Randy Moss. The Pats may have been the greatest team of all time. But they weren’t the champs.
Winner: The Pats, (over the Niners)
1988/2008: The Niners had obtained the services of Steve Young, lately of the Buccaneers and BYU before that, as Insurance against Montana’s back problems. But Joe was still the main starter. The Niners were a bit snake-bit, losing 6 games, including by 3 to the Broncos 1 to the Bears, 1 to the Cardinals and 6 to the Raiders. Overall they were 10-6, 369-294, (23-18), which put them in a three way tie for 1st place in the NFC West with the Rams and the Saints. There were four other 10-6 teams in the lead besides those three. The Bills, Bengals and Bears were all 12-4 and the Vikings 11-5. But sometimes the best te4am emerges in the playoffs. The Niners won the tiebreakers to be the divisional champions and the Vikings, despite a superior record, had to travel back to San Fransisco as a Wild-Card team. The Niners were ready for them and did what they should have done the year before, crushing them 34-9. They then traveled to Chiago and did the same to the Bears, 28-3. They then met their old friends the Bengals in the SB, winning it 20-16 when Montan famous pointed out John Candy in the stands to calm his nervous teammates before the final drive.
The Patriot’s season appeared doomed when Tom Brady went down with an ACL tear in the opener. Matt Cassell replaced him and performed credibly, leading the team to a 11-5 record (410-309, 26-19). But they lost the Division to the shocking Dolphins who, using the ‘wildcat’ formation, had experienced the single greatest improvement from one year to another in NFL history, going from 1-15 to 11-5. They split with the Pats and won the tiebreaker and the Pats didn’t make the playoffs at all.
Winner: Niners
1989/2009: This, to me was the greatest Niners team: 14-2, 442-253, (28-16). Montana set a record, completing 70.2% of his passes for 26TDs and 8 picks. Young completed 69.6% for 8 and 3. Roger Craig ran for 1,054 yards and 6 scores. Rice had 82 catches for 1,483 yards and 17TD passes while John Taylor, on the other side of the field, caught 60 for 1,077 and 10 scores. This is what I call a “mantis” team. You must cover both wide receivers and expose your defense to being chewed up by Craig. They had the all-time playoff run, again destroying the poor Vikings, 41-13, then the Rams 30-3 and then they beat the Denver Broncos 55-10 in the SB, the all-time Super Bowl margin of victory and Montana threw for 5 touchdowns, three of them to Rice.
The Patriots went 10-6 but it was a pretty strong 10-6: 427-285 (27-18). That was enough to win the division as the Dolphins sagged to 7-9. The Pats were back in the playoffs but the results were unpleasant: the Raven clobbered them in their own place, 33-14. Were the Pats fading?
Winner: Niners
1990/2010: The Niners seemed ready to threepeat when they went 14-2 again, 353-239, (22-15). An injury to Craig hurt the running game but Rice had 100/1502/13. They beat the Redskins 28-10 but were upset at home by Bill Parcells Giants, who went on to beat the Bills, 20-19 when Norwood’s field goal went wide right.
The Patriots came roading back with a 14-2 record (518-313, 32-20). Brady was fabulous with 36TDs and 4 interceptions. But Rex Ryan’s Jets shocked the Pats with another home defeat, 21-28.
Result: tie
1991/2011: The Niners slipped to 10-6 as Montana sustained an elbow injury in a pre-season game. He missed much of the next two years because of it. This produced the transition of the highly capable Steve Young at QB. All 6 losses were by a touchdown or less. But they finished 3rd in the West and missed the playoffs.
The Pats rolled on, going 13-3, (513-342, 32-21). This time they crushed the Broncos 45-10 and nipped the Ravens 23-20 to get back to the SB, only to find the Giants waiting for them again. This was the game where the Giant’s Ahmad Bradshaw tried NOT to score when he was left wide open with 54 seconds left as it was second down and the Giants wanted to run more clock before scoring. But his momentum carried him over the goal line and the Giants had to play defense. But Brady’s last four passes were incomplete, and the Giants won again, 21-17.
Winner: Pats
1992/2012: Young was the QB now, although Montana became available late in the season. The Niners marched to a league best 14-2 record, (431-236, 27-15). The beat the Redskins, 20-13 and then faced a revived Cowboy franchise, who came to San Francisco and, in another classic, q11 years after the previous wone, they best the Niners, 20-30 and when on to swim through a sea of Bills turnovers tgo return to the throne room.
The Patriots had another high scoring team, going 12-4 (557-331, 35-21). Brady (34/8) had Wes Welker as his main target, (118/1354/6) while one Stevan Ridley ran for 1,263 yards and 12 scores. They beat the Texas 41-28 but lost to the eventual champion Ravens, 13-28.
Winner: Niners
1993/2013: The Niners were a strong 10-6 (472-295, 30-18) but won the division. Again, they were kind of snakebit, losing four games by the margin of a field goal. They gained a spectacular revenge on the Giants, 44-3 but again lost to the champion Cowboys 21-38 in the NFC title game.
The Pats were 12-4 but only out-scored their opponents 444-338, (28-21). They did win the division and crushed the Colts 43-22 in the playoffs but were beaten in Denver 16-26 in the AFC title game.
Result: tied.
1994/2014: This was the last Niners Super Bowl championship team to date: 13-3, 505-296 (32-18.5). They won the West and beat the two-time defending champion Cowboys 21-14 in the regular season and 38-28 in the NFC title game, both in San Francisco. (They’s also put the Bears in hybernation 44-15). They then crushed the Chargers 49-26 in the Super Bowl as Steve Young set a record with 6 touchdown passes, three to Jerry Rice.
The Pats also won the SB, beating the defending champ Seahawks 28-21 on the famous interception at the goal line. This was a 12-4 team, 468-313 (29-20) that out-lasted the Ravens 35-31 and crushed the Colts 45-7 in the conference title game.
Winner: Both champs but I think the Niners were the better team.
1995/2015: The championships were over for the Niners but not the winning. They were still a powerful team, going 11-5, 457-258 (29-16), with every loss by 6 points or less. But in the playoffs the Packers beat them by ten, 17-27, in the divisional round of the playoffs.
The Pats went 12-4, 465-315 (29-20) and won the division. They beat the Chiefs 27-20 but again lost in Denver, 18-20 in the AFC title game. The Broncos went on to win the SB, as Peyton Manning, (who had reached the end of the line), won his last confrontation with Tom Brady. But Tom was far from done.
Winner: A slight edge to the Pats.
1996/2016: The Niners went 12-4, 398-257 (25-16). They tied the Panthers for the division title, (this was before the NFL looked at a map and redesigned the divisions) but lost on tie breakers. They blanked the Eagles 14-0 in the playoffs but again lost to the eventual SB champion Packers, 14-35 in the divisional round.
The Pats had one of their best teams, 14-2, 441-250 (28-16) and cruised through the playoffs, beating Houston 34-16 and Pittsburgh 36-17. The Super Bowl was a different story. The Atlanta Falcons, who ahd never won the Super Bowl, cruised to a 28-3 fourth quarter lead and coasted home to their first-ever title. Or they thought they would. Tom Brady, in his greatest hour, mounted an incredible comeback to win the game in overtime with 31 unanswered points.
Winner: the Pats, big time.
1997/2017: The Niners had another strong contender, 13-3, 375-265 (23-17). They again pummeled the Vikings in the playoffs: 38-22. But they still couldn’t get past their nemesis, the Packers, 10-23 in the NFC title game.
The Pats kept rolling with a 13-3 record of their own, 458-296, (29-18.5). They pounded the Titans 35-14 and slipped by the Jaguars 24-20 to get back to the SB and what a Super Bowl it was! I remember describing this game to my brother: “The whole game was like the fourth quarter of a great game. The Eagles and the Patriots went back and forth for sixty minutes before Philly finally pulled it out 41-33 on “the Philly Special”, a direct snap to a halfback while QB Nick Foles shouted out instructions and then suddenly bolts out on a pass pattern, scoring untouched.
Winner: The Pats.
1998/2018: The Niners kept winning: 12-4, 479-328 (30-20.5) but finished second behind the Falcons, (14-2) with whom they split. They finally beat the Packers, 30-27 in the Wild Card round but the Falcons won the rubber match in the divisional round 18-20.
The Pats slipped slightly to 11-5, 436-325 (27-20) but they still won the division. They then beat the Chargers, 41-28, then, for the second time that year, fought off the rising Kansas City Chiefs 37-31 after beating them 43-40 in one of the greatest regular season games ever. The torch wasn’t quite passed but new fingers were touching it. The Pats then won an anti-climactic 6th Super Bowl over the Rams, the team they’d won the first one from 13-3. But it was a climax. We just didn’t know it yet.
Winner: The Pats
1999/2019: The boat cracked and sank for the Niners. In week 3, Steve Young got one too many concussions and had played his last game. Jeff Garcia took over, but he was no Montana or Young. The Niners went 2-8 with him at QB and 0-3 with another QB, Steve Stenstrom. Other injuries and retirements ruined their defense. “Statistics site Football Outsiders calculates that the 1999 49ers had the second-worst pass defense they had ever tracked.” (Wikipedia). Overall, they were 4-12, 295-453 (18-28).
The Pats still had some momentum going: 12-4, 420-225, (26-14, their best defense yet). But they lsot to the Titans in the Wild Card round.
Winner: Pats
2000/2020: The Niners improved slightly to 6-10, 388-422, (24-26), as Garcia had a Montana/Young type of year: 31TD, 10int. But the defense was still bad and the playoffs were out of the question.
Tom Brady once more shocked the world by winning the Super Bowl but he did in Tampa Bay. Cam Newton was now the Pat’s QB and he was no Brady. The Pats still had a good defense but went 7-9, 326-353 (20-22). They also missed the playoffs.
Result: tie.
2001/2021: Garcia had another brig years, (32TD, 12int), but the Niners had rebuilt their defense and went 12-4, 409-282 (26-18), just like the old times. And just like old times, they lost to the Packers in the Wild Card round 15-25.
The Pats also made a comeback, this time with Mack Jones as the QB, to 10-7, 462-303 (27-18) in the first season with 17 regular season games. They also lost in the wild card round, getting crushed by the Bills 17-47.
Winner: Niners
2002/2022: The Niners finished this era with a decent 10-6 record, 367-351 (23-22) and won a memorable game against the Giants 39-38, after being down by 14-38 with 19:27 left. The clincher was a botched field goal attempt by the Giants from the Niner 23. But the Niners had no answer for the eventual SB champion Buccaneers 6-31 in the divisional round.
The Patriots slipped to 8-9 but outscored their opponents 364-347, (21-20). They wantched the palyoffs on TV.
Winner: Niners.
Afterwards: The Niners went into a long slump, with no winning season in 8 years, the nadir being a 2-14 year in 2004. They came back to win 36 regular season games in three years from 2011-2013 and lost the Super Bowl in the middle year. But they were back to 2-14 in 2016. Now they are back again, with four ten-win seasons in five years and a SB loss to the Chiefs in 2019.
The 2023 Patriots collapsed to 4-13 and Bill Belichick is leaving as their coach. That makes 2002/2022 as a good point to cut off the comparison. Here are some overall stats for the period:
Niners:
Regular season record: 239-104-1, (.697), 8851 points to 5,968 (26-17) 14 division titles
Post season record: 23-13, (.639), 939 points to 733 (26-20), 5 Super Bowl wins in 5 games, average score: 38-18 (188-89)
Overall: 262-117-1 (.691), 9,790 points to 6,701 (26-18)
Years won: 84/04, 85/05, 88/08, 89/09, 92/12, 94/14, 01/21 and 02/22 = 8
Tie years: 81/01, 90/10, 93/13, 22/20 = 4
Pats:
Regular season record: 257-97 (.726), 9,599 points to 6,263 (27-18)
Post season record: 30-13, (.698), 1,123 points to 892 (26-21), 6 Super Bowl wins in 9 games, average score in the wins: 25-20 (151-122), in all 9 games: 24-22 (215-201) (The Pats did a better job of getting to the SB but the Niners did a better job in the SB)
Overall: 287-110 (.723), 10,722 points to 7,155 (27-18)
Years won: 82/02, 83/03, 86/06, 87/07, 91/11, 95/15, 96/16, 97/17, 98/18, 99/19 = 10
I looked at pro bowl participants for both teams:
NINERS
Harris Barton 1993 RT
Ray Brown 2001, LG
Michael Carter 1985, 1987, 1988 NT
Dwight Clark, 1981, 1982 WR
Roger Craig 1985, 1987, 1988 RB/FB
Randy Cross 1981, 1982, 1984 RG
Eric Davis 1985 LCB
Fred Dean 1983 DE
Chris Doleman 1997, RDE
Keith Fahnhorst 1984 RT
Jeff Garcia 2001, 2002, QB
Charlie Garner 2000, RB
Kevin Gogan 1996, 1998, RG
Charles Haley 1988, 1989, 1991 LOLB
Merton Hanks 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997 FS
Garrison Hearst 1998, 2001, RB
Dwight Hicks 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984 FS
Pierce Holt 1992 LDE
Brent Jones 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, TE
Ronnie Lott 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1986, 1987, 1988 LCB
Tim McDonald 1993, 1994, 1995 SS
Guy McIntyre 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993 LG
Joe Montana 1981, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1987 QB
Jeremy Newberry 2001, 2002 C
Ken Norton Jr. 1995, 1997, MLB
Bart Oates 1994, 1995, C
Terrell Owens 2000, 2001, 2002 WR
Julian Peterson 2002, LLB
Fred Quillan 1984, 1985 C
Jerry Rice 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1998 WR
Deion Sanders 1994 RCB
Jesse Sapolu 1993, 1994, C/LG
Lance Schulters 1999, FS
Ron Stone 2002, RG
Dana Stubblefield 1994, 1995, 1997 RDT
John Taylor 1988, 1989 WR
Winfred Tubbs 1998, MLB
Keena Turner 1984, ROLB
Wendell Tyler 1984, RB
Steve Wallace 1992 LT
Ricky Watters 1992, 1993, 1994 RB
Carleton Williamson 1984, 1985 SS
Lee Woodall 1995, 1997 LLB
Eric Wright 1984, 1985 RCB
Bryant Young 1996, 1999, 2001, 2002, LDT
Steve Young 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998 QB
That’s 46 players who went to the Pro Bowl 118 times.
By position:
QB Jeff Garcia (2) Joe Montana (5) Steve Young (7)
FB
RB Roger Craig (3), Charlie Garner (1) Garrison Hearst (2) Ricky Watters (1)
WR Dwight Clark (2) Terrell Owens (3) Jerry Rice (12) John Taylor (2) Wendell Tyler (1)
TE Brent Jones (4)
OT Harris Barton (1) Keith Fahnhorst (1) Steve Wallace (1)
OG Ray Brown (1) Randy Cross (3) Kevin Gogan (2) Guy McIntyre (5) Ron Stone (1)
C Jeremy Newberry (2) Bart Oates (2) Fred Quillan (2) Jesse Sapolu (2)
PK
P
DE Fred Dean (1) Chris Doleman (1) Pierce Holt (1)
DT Michael Carter (3) Dana Stubblefield (3) Bryant Young (4)
OLB Charles Haley (3) Julian Peterson (1) Keena Turner (1) Lee Woodall (2)
ILB Ken Norton Jr. (2) Winfred Tubbs (1)
CB Eric Davis (1) Ronnie Lott (7) Deion Sanders (1) Eric Wright (2)
SS Tim McDonald (3) Carleton Williamson (2)
FS Merton Hanks (4) Dwight Hicks (4) Lance Schulters (1)
I’m surprised that the Niners never had a Pro Bowl place kicker or punter. They have no Pro Bowl fullback, perhaps because FB’s had become blocking backs and eventually became almost extinct. But I remember Tom Rathman played that position for years and was regarded as the best in the league before Moose Johnson came along. They seem well-stocked other than that. Interesting that Young made the Pro Bowl more than Montana: you can’t go wrong either way with those two. They’ve got 6 defensive linemen and 6 linebackers so they could go 4-3 or 3-4 on defense.
PATS
Jake Bailey 2020, P
Tom Brady 2001, 2004, 2005, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, QB
Troy Brown 2001, WR
Tedy Bruschi 2004, RILB
Malcolm Butler 2015, CB
Andre Carter 2011, DE
Jaimie Collins 2015, LB
James Develin 2017, FB (I’ve never heard of this guy: in his career, he ran the ball 15 times and caught 31 passes. He had to be a special teams guy, like Matthew Slater, below. He returned 4 punts)
Stephon Gilmore 2017, 2019, 2020, CB
Stephen Gostkowski 2008, 2013, 2014, 2015, PK
Rob Gronkowski 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2017, TE
Dont’a Hightower 2016, 2019, LB
Larry Izzo 2002, 2004, LB
J. C. Jackson 2021, CB
Chandler Jones 2015, DE
Mack Jones, 2021, QB
Matt Judon 2021, 2022, OLB
Dan Koppen 2007, C
Ty Law 2001, 2002, 2003, LCB
Matt Light 2006, 2007, 2010, LT
Logan Mankins 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 LG
Jerod Mayo 2010, 2012 ILB
Devin McCourty 2010, 2016, FS
Willie McGinest 2003 RDE
Brandon Meriweather 2009, 2010, FS
Lawyer Molloy 2001, 2002, SS
Randy Moss 2007, WR
Darrelle Revis 2014, CB
Asante Samuel 2007, LCB
Richard Seymour 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, RDE
Matthew Slater 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2019, 2020, 2021, ST (Special Teams: the was listed as a wide receiver but caught only one pass. He returned 35 punts but never scored.)
Agib Talib 2013, CB
Adam Vinatieri 2002, 2004, PK
Mike Vrabel 2007, LOLB
Brian Waters 2011, G
Wes Welker 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012 WR
Vince Wilfork 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 NT
Damien Woody 2002, C
That’s 39 players who went to the Pro Bowl 98 times.
By position:
QB Tom Brady (14) Mack Jones (1)
FB James Develin (1)
RB Corey Dillon (1)
WR Troy Brown (1) Randy Moss (1) Wes Welker (4)
TE Rob Gronkowski (5)
OT Matt Light (3)
OG Logan Mankins (6) Brian Waters (1)
C Dan Koppen (1) Damien Woody (1)
PK Stephen Gostkowski (4) Adam Vinatieri (2)
P Jake Bailey (1)
DE Andre Carter (1) Chandler Jones (1) Willie McGinest (1) Richard Seymour (5)
DT Vince Wilfork (5)
OLB Jaimie Collins (1) Larry Izzo (2) Matt Judon (2) Mike Vrabel (2)
ILB Tedy Bruschi (1) Dont’a Hightower (2) Jerod Mayo (2)
CB Malcolm Butler (1) Stephon Gilmore (3) J. C. Jackson (1) Ty Law (3) Darrelle Revis (1) Asante Samuel (1) Agib Talib (1)
SS Lawyer Molloy (2)
FS Devin McCourty (2) Brandon Meriweather (3)
ST Mathew Slater (10)
They are abit thinner in Pro Bowlers than the Niners overall. They had only one offensive tackle. Richard Seymour is listed as a DE-DT. He was listed as a DE 4 of the 5 times he went to the Pro Bowl. On the other hand he was (or became) 6-6 317, so he should probably line up next to Vince Wilfork at tackle if the Pats use a 4-3. There are 5 DLs and 7 LB, so maybe they used a 3-4 more often.
So here are my starting line-ups for the two teams, with the Niners in a 4-3 with a fullback and the Pats in a 3-4 without one, meaning one WR will be a slot guy. Priority: Pro Bowl years with games played for the team in the relevant period, (1981-2001 for the Niners and 2001-2022) as a tie breaker. I’ll make Tom Rathman the Niner’s fullback. Of the seven placekickers they used in their period, the one who scored the most points was Mike Cofer, (694), barely over Ray Wersching (687). Of their ten punters the one with the most punts was Max Runager (281).
NINERS
QB Steve Young (You can insert Joe Montana if you want to)
FB Tom Rathman
RB Roger Craig
WR Terrell Owens, Jerry Rice
TE Brent Jones
OT Harris Barton, Steve Wallace
OG Randy Cross, Guy McIntyre
C Jesse Sapolu
PK Mike Cofer
P Max Runager
DE Fred Dean, Pierce Holt
DT Dana Stubblefield, Bryant Young
OLB Charles Haley, Lee Woodall
ILB Ken Norton Jr., Winfred Tubbs
CB Ronnie Lott, Eric Wright
SS Tim McDonald, Carleton Williamson
FS Merton Hanks, Dwight Hicks
PATS
QB Tom Brady
RB Corey Dillon
WR Troy Brown, Randy Moss, Wes Welker
TE Rob Gronkowski
OT Matt Light and Marcus Cannon who had the most games of any Patriots tackle 2001-22 who didn’t make the pro bowl.
OG Logan Mankins, Brian Waters
C Dan Koppen
PK Stephen Gostkowski
P Jake Bailey
DE Chandler Jones, Willie McGinest
DT Richard Seymour, Vince Wilfork
OLB Larry Izzo, Mike Vrabel
ILB Dont’a Hightower, Jerod Mayo
CB Stephon Gilmore, Ty Law
SS Lawyer Molloy
FS Devin McCourty, Brandon Meriweather
So those are the line-ups: Have at it boys!
Niners: San Francisco 49ers Team Records, Leaders, and League Ranks | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Patriots: New England Patriots Team Records, Leaders, and League Ranks | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Here’s a side-by-side, year-by-year comparison of those eras with a declared winner of each sister season, (if there was one):
1981/2001: The Niners were 13-3 (357-250, 22-16) and then beat the Giants 38-24, the Cowboys in a 28-27 classic and then the Bengals 26-21 in the SB, the first Super Bowl with two teams that had never been in it since the first one. I remember being thankful that we’d finally gotten some new blood in the big game and wondering if either team would have the staying power to be the sport’s next dynasty.
The Pats were 11-5, (371-272, 23-17) and then began what would be a trend for them: post-season nail biters, beating Oakland in a snowstorm on the “tuck play”, 16-13, then the Steeler 24-17 and then they played the team everybody thought was the next dynasty, the St. Louis Rams, in the SB. It looked like it might be the first OT SB when the Rams rallied form down 3-17 going into the final quarter to tied it at 17 with 1:30 left but Young Tom Brady drove his team down the field and Ada, Vinatieri kicked a 48 yarder, (eat your heart out, Scott Norwood), to win it 20-17 on the final play.
Result: tie.
1982/2002: Both teams fell back, the Niners, in the first strike year, (but they didn’t use replacement players) all the way to 3-6, although they out-scored their opponents 209-206, (23-23, so the problem was on defense, not offense), and finished 3rd in the NFC West, not making the playoffs in a year when 16 of 28 teams did.
The Patriots did better, finishing 9-7, (381-346, 24-22), finishing second in the AFC East but also missing the playoffs. Maybe Walsh and Belichick weren’t geniuses after all.
Winner: Patriots
1983/2003: Both teams came back. The Niners were 10-6 but won the division with a potent 432-293 (27-18). The nipped the Lions 24-23 in the D-round but were nipped by the defending champion Redskins, who seemed invincible after going 14-2, scoring 541 points, crushing the Rams 51-7 and building up a 21-0 lead on the Niners going into the 4th quarter. But Joe Montana rallied the team with three fourth quarter touchdowns to tie the game. A final Redskin drive, aided by two questionable defensive penalties, produced the winning field goal. The skins were unable to get the wheels back on for the Super Bowl: The Raiders blew them out 9-38. Meanwhile the Niners had plenty of momentum for the next season.
The Patriots looked awful in opening the season with a 0-31 loss in Buffalo. They lost to the Redskins 17-20 in game four to go 2-2. They then set an NFL record by winning their next 21 games in a row, including the SB over the upstart Carolina Panthers, 32-29 on another last play Vinatieri FG. It was a weird game in which neither team scored in the first or third quarters but the second was 14-10 and the third 18-19. They’d finished the regular season by beating the Bills by that same 31-0 score in Foxboro and finished 14-2, (348-238, 22-15).
Winner: Patriots
1984/2004: Both teams won it all but the Niners were something special. This team is considered their greatest: 15-1 (475-227, 30-14). They whipped the Giants, 21-10, shut out the Bears 23-0 and crushed Dan Marino’s greatest Dolphin team 38-16 in the big game. I don’t pick this as their greatest team because of one missing element: Jerry Rice was a rookie the next year.
The Pats were no slouch, again going 14-2 (437-260, 27-16) and holding Peyton Manning’s Colts, who had been averaging 33ppg to 3 in a 20-3 win. Manning had broken the passing TD record of 48 Marino had set back in ’84 with 49 but couldn’t find the end zone vs. the Pats, who then whipped the Steelers 41-27 before beating Donovan McNabb’s Eagles 24-21 in the SB, with still another Vinatieri FG being the margin of victory, even though it didn’t come on the last play.
Winner: It would have been a heck of a game but it’s the Niners.
1985/2005: The Niners were not quite ready to be a dynasty yet and slipped back to 10-6 but still a potent 411-263, (26-16). But the Giants shut them down, 3-17 in the playoffs. This year belonged to the Bears.
The Pats also went 10-6, a less potent 379-338, (24-21). The crushed the Jaguars 28-3 in the playoffs but then got beat in Denver 13-27.
Winner: Niners
1986/2006: The Niners continued to stumble, going 10-5 plus the only tie either team had in their respective periods, 10-10 to Atlanta. They still out-scored their opponents 374-247, (23-15). They then got humiliated by the Giants in the playoffs, 3-49, (nobody ever did that to the Pats, although the Bills came close a couple of years ago). Montana suffered a spinal injury early in the year and was advised to retire but he came back seven weeks later.
The Pats went 12-4, (385-237, 24-15). They clobbered the Jets 37-16 and nipped the Chargers 24-21 but finally got beat by the Colts, 34-38 in the AFC championship game.
Winner: Pats
1987/2007: 1987 was the second strike year, the one they used replacement players and the Niners had the best ones, steaming to a league best 13-2, 459-253, (31-17) record. Unfortunately, they under-estimated the Vikings, who built a 20-3 halftime lead and matched scored in the second half for a 36-24 win- in San Francisco! I watched that game, and it looked like the Niners thought they would win because they were the 13-2 Niners and they were the 8-7-1 Vikings. But anybody can beat you, especially in the playoffs. It was a lesson the Niners remembered through the next two years.
As strong as the ’87 Niners were, they were not as good as the ’07 Patriots, who may have been the greatest team of all time. They won all 16 regular season games by a combined 589-274 (37-17). Nobody came within 17 points of them in their first 8 games when they meet the defending champion and also undefeated Colts in one of the great regular season games of all time. The Colts built up a 20-10 fourth quarter lead but could not hold on. Both former SU stars, Dwight Freeney and Marvin Harrison were out for this game, and I recall that Marvin’s replacement dropped a third down pass that might have clinched it. Also, the Colts were unable to pressure Brady as he drove his team to two fourth quarter TDs to win it, 24-20. The Pats went back to crushing teams the next week, obliterating the Bills 56-10. They kept winning after that, but the games started being uncomfortably close: they beat McNabb’s Eagles by 3; the ravens had them beat, stopping a 4th down, but their DC had called a time out as the ball was snapped: the Pats went on to win by 3. They handled the Steelers 34-17, beat the Jets 20-10, then the Dolphins 28-7.
Their last game was against Tom Coughlin’s 10-5 Giants. I recall a debate on this board about whether the Giants should accept that they can’t compete with this team and ‘tank’ the game to save his starters. Those in favor of that plan seemed to be in the majority. Tom disagreed: he wanted his team to prove they could compete with the Pats. The result was a 38-35 game in which the Patriots had to rally from a 16-28 deficit to win. The Pats moved on through the playoffs, but it wasn’t easy: 31-20 over the Jaguars and 21-12 over the Chargers. Then they faced the Giants again with a chance to go 20-0 and top the achievement of my favorite all-time team, my beloved 1972 Dolphins. But the Giants had fought their way to the big game, beating the Bucs 24-14, the Cowboys 21-17, and the Packers 23-20, all on the road. And they knew they could compete with the Patriots. It was New England 7, New York 3 at the half and going into the 4th quarter. Former Orangeman David Tyree caught a 5 yard pass from Eli Manning with 11:05 left to give the Giants a 10-7 lead. The Patriots took the lead back with 2:42 left when Brady hit Randy Moss with a 6 yarder. With 1:15 left the Giants had a 3rd and 5 from their 44 when Manning had to scramble and barely got a pass off to Tyree downfield, which David pinned against his helmet for a 32 yard gain. Manning was sacked on the next play and threw an incompletion but then hit Steve Smith for 12 yards to the Pat 13, then Plaxico Burress in the end zone with 39 seconds left to make it 17-14. The Giants defense then rose up and engulfed Tom Brady with a sack and three incompletions, the last a desperation deep shot to Randy Moss. The Pats may have been the greatest team of all time. But they weren’t the champs.
Winner: The Pats, (over the Niners)
1988/2008: The Niners had obtained the services of Steve Young, lately of the Buccaneers and BYU before that, as Insurance against Montana’s back problems. But Joe was still the main starter. The Niners were a bit snake-bit, losing 6 games, including by 3 to the Broncos 1 to the Bears, 1 to the Cardinals and 6 to the Raiders. Overall they were 10-6, 369-294, (23-18), which put them in a three way tie for 1st place in the NFC West with the Rams and the Saints. There were four other 10-6 teams in the lead besides those three. The Bills, Bengals and Bears were all 12-4 and the Vikings 11-5. But sometimes the best te4am emerges in the playoffs. The Niners won the tiebreakers to be the divisional champions and the Vikings, despite a superior record, had to travel back to San Fransisco as a Wild-Card team. The Niners were ready for them and did what they should have done the year before, crushing them 34-9. They then traveled to Chiago and did the same to the Bears, 28-3. They then met their old friends the Bengals in the SB, winning it 20-16 when Montan famous pointed out John Candy in the stands to calm his nervous teammates before the final drive.
The Patriot’s season appeared doomed when Tom Brady went down with an ACL tear in the opener. Matt Cassell replaced him and performed credibly, leading the team to a 11-5 record (410-309, 26-19). But they lost the Division to the shocking Dolphins who, using the ‘wildcat’ formation, had experienced the single greatest improvement from one year to another in NFL history, going from 1-15 to 11-5. They split with the Pats and won the tiebreaker and the Pats didn’t make the playoffs at all.
Winner: Niners
1989/2009: This, to me was the greatest Niners team: 14-2, 442-253, (28-16). Montana set a record, completing 70.2% of his passes for 26TDs and 8 picks. Young completed 69.6% for 8 and 3. Roger Craig ran for 1,054 yards and 6 scores. Rice had 82 catches for 1,483 yards and 17TD passes while John Taylor, on the other side of the field, caught 60 for 1,077 and 10 scores. This is what I call a “mantis” team. You must cover both wide receivers and expose your defense to being chewed up by Craig. They had the all-time playoff run, again destroying the poor Vikings, 41-13, then the Rams 30-3 and then they beat the Denver Broncos 55-10 in the SB, the all-time Super Bowl margin of victory and Montana threw for 5 touchdowns, three of them to Rice.
The Patriots went 10-6 but it was a pretty strong 10-6: 427-285 (27-18). That was enough to win the division as the Dolphins sagged to 7-9. The Pats were back in the playoffs but the results were unpleasant: the Raven clobbered them in their own place, 33-14. Were the Pats fading?
Winner: Niners
1990/2010: The Niners seemed ready to threepeat when they went 14-2 again, 353-239, (22-15). An injury to Craig hurt the running game but Rice had 100/1502/13. They beat the Redskins 28-10 but were upset at home by Bill Parcells Giants, who went on to beat the Bills, 20-19 when Norwood’s field goal went wide right.
The Patriots came roading back with a 14-2 record (518-313, 32-20). Brady was fabulous with 36TDs and 4 interceptions. But Rex Ryan’s Jets shocked the Pats with another home defeat, 21-28.
Result: tie
1991/2011: The Niners slipped to 10-6 as Montana sustained an elbow injury in a pre-season game. He missed much of the next two years because of it. This produced the transition of the highly capable Steve Young at QB. All 6 losses were by a touchdown or less. But they finished 3rd in the West and missed the playoffs.
The Pats rolled on, going 13-3, (513-342, 32-21). This time they crushed the Broncos 45-10 and nipped the Ravens 23-20 to get back to the SB, only to find the Giants waiting for them again. This was the game where the Giant’s Ahmad Bradshaw tried NOT to score when he was left wide open with 54 seconds left as it was second down and the Giants wanted to run more clock before scoring. But his momentum carried him over the goal line and the Giants had to play defense. But Brady’s last four passes were incomplete, and the Giants won again, 21-17.
Winner: Pats
1992/2012: Young was the QB now, although Montana became available late in the season. The Niners marched to a league best 14-2 record, (431-236, 27-15). The beat the Redskins, 20-13 and then faced a revived Cowboy franchise, who came to San Francisco and, in another classic, q11 years after the previous wone, they best the Niners, 20-30 and when on to swim through a sea of Bills turnovers tgo return to the throne room.
The Patriots had another high scoring team, going 12-4 (557-331, 35-21). Brady (34/8) had Wes Welker as his main target, (118/1354/6) while one Stevan Ridley ran for 1,263 yards and 12 scores. They beat the Texas 41-28 but lost to the eventual champion Ravens, 13-28.
Winner: Niners
1993/2013: The Niners were a strong 10-6 (472-295, 30-18) but won the division. Again, they were kind of snakebit, losing four games by the margin of a field goal. They gained a spectacular revenge on the Giants, 44-3 but again lost to the champion Cowboys 21-38 in the NFC title game.
The Pats were 12-4 but only out-scored their opponents 444-338, (28-21). They did win the division and crushed the Colts 43-22 in the playoffs but were beaten in Denver 16-26 in the AFC title game.
Result: tied.
1994/2014: This was the last Niners Super Bowl championship team to date: 13-3, 505-296 (32-18.5). They won the West and beat the two-time defending champion Cowboys 21-14 in the regular season and 38-28 in the NFC title game, both in San Francisco. (They’s also put the Bears in hybernation 44-15). They then crushed the Chargers 49-26 in the Super Bowl as Steve Young set a record with 6 touchdown passes, three to Jerry Rice.
The Pats also won the SB, beating the defending champ Seahawks 28-21 on the famous interception at the goal line. This was a 12-4 team, 468-313 (29-20) that out-lasted the Ravens 35-31 and crushed the Colts 45-7 in the conference title game.
Winner: Both champs but I think the Niners were the better team.
1995/2015: The championships were over for the Niners but not the winning. They were still a powerful team, going 11-5, 457-258 (29-16), with every loss by 6 points or less. But in the playoffs the Packers beat them by ten, 17-27, in the divisional round of the playoffs.
The Pats went 12-4, 465-315 (29-20) and won the division. They beat the Chiefs 27-20 but again lost in Denver, 18-20 in the AFC title game. The Broncos went on to win the SB, as Peyton Manning, (who had reached the end of the line), won his last confrontation with Tom Brady. But Tom was far from done.
Winner: A slight edge to the Pats.
1996/2016: The Niners went 12-4, 398-257 (25-16). They tied the Panthers for the division title, (this was before the NFL looked at a map and redesigned the divisions) but lost on tie breakers. They blanked the Eagles 14-0 in the playoffs but again lost to the eventual SB champion Packers, 14-35 in the divisional round.
The Pats had one of their best teams, 14-2, 441-250 (28-16) and cruised through the playoffs, beating Houston 34-16 and Pittsburgh 36-17. The Super Bowl was a different story. The Atlanta Falcons, who ahd never won the Super Bowl, cruised to a 28-3 fourth quarter lead and coasted home to their first-ever title. Or they thought they would. Tom Brady, in his greatest hour, mounted an incredible comeback to win the game in overtime with 31 unanswered points.
Winner: the Pats, big time.
1997/2017: The Niners had another strong contender, 13-3, 375-265 (23-17). They again pummeled the Vikings in the playoffs: 38-22. But they still couldn’t get past their nemesis, the Packers, 10-23 in the NFC title game.
The Pats kept rolling with a 13-3 record of their own, 458-296, (29-18.5). They pounded the Titans 35-14 and slipped by the Jaguars 24-20 to get back to the SB and what a Super Bowl it was! I remember describing this game to my brother: “The whole game was like the fourth quarter of a great game. The Eagles and the Patriots went back and forth for sixty minutes before Philly finally pulled it out 41-33 on “the Philly Special”, a direct snap to a halfback while QB Nick Foles shouted out instructions and then suddenly bolts out on a pass pattern, scoring untouched.
Winner: The Pats.
1998/2018: The Niners kept winning: 12-4, 479-328 (30-20.5) but finished second behind the Falcons, (14-2) with whom they split. They finally beat the Packers, 30-27 in the Wild Card round but the Falcons won the rubber match in the divisional round 18-20.
The Pats slipped slightly to 11-5, 436-325 (27-20) but they still won the division. They then beat the Chargers, 41-28, then, for the second time that year, fought off the rising Kansas City Chiefs 37-31 after beating them 43-40 in one of the greatest regular season games ever. The torch wasn’t quite passed but new fingers were touching it. The Pats then won an anti-climactic 6th Super Bowl over the Rams, the team they’d won the first one from 13-3. But it was a climax. We just didn’t know it yet.
Winner: The Pats
1999/2019: The boat cracked and sank for the Niners. In week 3, Steve Young got one too many concussions and had played his last game. Jeff Garcia took over, but he was no Montana or Young. The Niners went 2-8 with him at QB and 0-3 with another QB, Steve Stenstrom. Other injuries and retirements ruined their defense. “Statistics site Football Outsiders calculates that the 1999 49ers had the second-worst pass defense they had ever tracked.” (Wikipedia). Overall, they were 4-12, 295-453 (18-28).
The Pats still had some momentum going: 12-4, 420-225, (26-14, their best defense yet). But they lsot to the Titans in the Wild Card round.
Winner: Pats
2000/2020: The Niners improved slightly to 6-10, 388-422, (24-26), as Garcia had a Montana/Young type of year: 31TD, 10int. But the defense was still bad and the playoffs were out of the question.
Tom Brady once more shocked the world by winning the Super Bowl but he did in Tampa Bay. Cam Newton was now the Pat’s QB and he was no Brady. The Pats still had a good defense but went 7-9, 326-353 (20-22). They also missed the playoffs.
Result: tie.
2001/2021: Garcia had another brig years, (32TD, 12int), but the Niners had rebuilt their defense and went 12-4, 409-282 (26-18), just like the old times. And just like old times, they lost to the Packers in the Wild Card round 15-25.
The Pats also made a comeback, this time with Mack Jones as the QB, to 10-7, 462-303 (27-18) in the first season with 17 regular season games. They also lost in the wild card round, getting crushed by the Bills 17-47.
Winner: Niners
2002/2022: The Niners finished this era with a decent 10-6 record, 367-351 (23-22) and won a memorable game against the Giants 39-38, after being down by 14-38 with 19:27 left. The clincher was a botched field goal attempt by the Giants from the Niner 23. But the Niners had no answer for the eventual SB champion Buccaneers 6-31 in the divisional round.
The Patriots slipped to 8-9 but outscored their opponents 364-347, (21-20). They wantched the palyoffs on TV.
Winner: Niners.
Afterwards: The Niners went into a long slump, with no winning season in 8 years, the nadir being a 2-14 year in 2004. They came back to win 36 regular season games in three years from 2011-2013 and lost the Super Bowl in the middle year. But they were back to 2-14 in 2016. Now they are back again, with four ten-win seasons in five years and a SB loss to the Chiefs in 2019.
The 2023 Patriots collapsed to 4-13 and Bill Belichick is leaving as their coach. That makes 2002/2022 as a good point to cut off the comparison. Here are some overall stats for the period:
Niners:
Regular season record: 239-104-1, (.697), 8851 points to 5,968 (26-17) 14 division titles
Post season record: 23-13, (.639), 939 points to 733 (26-20), 5 Super Bowl wins in 5 games, average score: 38-18 (188-89)
Overall: 262-117-1 (.691), 9,790 points to 6,701 (26-18)
Years won: 84/04, 85/05, 88/08, 89/09, 92/12, 94/14, 01/21 and 02/22 = 8
Tie years: 81/01, 90/10, 93/13, 22/20 = 4
Pats:
Regular season record: 257-97 (.726), 9,599 points to 6,263 (27-18)
Post season record: 30-13, (.698), 1,123 points to 892 (26-21), 6 Super Bowl wins in 9 games, average score in the wins: 25-20 (151-122), in all 9 games: 24-22 (215-201) (The Pats did a better job of getting to the SB but the Niners did a better job in the SB)
Overall: 287-110 (.723), 10,722 points to 7,155 (27-18)
Years won: 82/02, 83/03, 86/06, 87/07, 91/11, 95/15, 96/16, 97/17, 98/18, 99/19 = 10
I looked at pro bowl participants for both teams:
NINERS
Harris Barton 1993 RT
Ray Brown 2001, LG
Michael Carter 1985, 1987, 1988 NT
Dwight Clark, 1981, 1982 WR
Roger Craig 1985, 1987, 1988 RB/FB
Randy Cross 1981, 1982, 1984 RG
Eric Davis 1985 LCB
Fred Dean 1983 DE
Chris Doleman 1997, RDE
Keith Fahnhorst 1984 RT
Jeff Garcia 2001, 2002, QB
Charlie Garner 2000, RB
Kevin Gogan 1996, 1998, RG
Charles Haley 1988, 1989, 1991 LOLB
Merton Hanks 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997 FS
Garrison Hearst 1998, 2001, RB
Dwight Hicks 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984 FS
Pierce Holt 1992 LDE
Brent Jones 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, TE
Ronnie Lott 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1986, 1987, 1988 LCB
Tim McDonald 1993, 1994, 1995 SS
Guy McIntyre 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993 LG
Joe Montana 1981, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1987 QB
Jeremy Newberry 2001, 2002 C
Ken Norton Jr. 1995, 1997, MLB
Bart Oates 1994, 1995, C
Terrell Owens 2000, 2001, 2002 WR
Julian Peterson 2002, LLB
Fred Quillan 1984, 1985 C
Jerry Rice 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1998 WR
Deion Sanders 1994 RCB
Jesse Sapolu 1993, 1994, C/LG
Lance Schulters 1999, FS
Ron Stone 2002, RG
Dana Stubblefield 1994, 1995, 1997 RDT
John Taylor 1988, 1989 WR
Winfred Tubbs 1998, MLB
Keena Turner 1984, ROLB
Wendell Tyler 1984, RB
Steve Wallace 1992 LT
Ricky Watters 1992, 1993, 1994 RB
Carleton Williamson 1984, 1985 SS
Lee Woodall 1995, 1997 LLB
Eric Wright 1984, 1985 RCB
Bryant Young 1996, 1999, 2001, 2002, LDT
Steve Young 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998 QB
That’s 46 players who went to the Pro Bowl 118 times.
By position:
QB Jeff Garcia (2) Joe Montana (5) Steve Young (7)
FB
RB Roger Craig (3), Charlie Garner (1) Garrison Hearst (2) Ricky Watters (1)
WR Dwight Clark (2) Terrell Owens (3) Jerry Rice (12) John Taylor (2) Wendell Tyler (1)
TE Brent Jones (4)
OT Harris Barton (1) Keith Fahnhorst (1) Steve Wallace (1)
OG Ray Brown (1) Randy Cross (3) Kevin Gogan (2) Guy McIntyre (5) Ron Stone (1)
C Jeremy Newberry (2) Bart Oates (2) Fred Quillan (2) Jesse Sapolu (2)
PK
P
DE Fred Dean (1) Chris Doleman (1) Pierce Holt (1)
DT Michael Carter (3) Dana Stubblefield (3) Bryant Young (4)
OLB Charles Haley (3) Julian Peterson (1) Keena Turner (1) Lee Woodall (2)
ILB Ken Norton Jr. (2) Winfred Tubbs (1)
CB Eric Davis (1) Ronnie Lott (7) Deion Sanders (1) Eric Wright (2)
SS Tim McDonald (3) Carleton Williamson (2)
FS Merton Hanks (4) Dwight Hicks (4) Lance Schulters (1)
I’m surprised that the Niners never had a Pro Bowl place kicker or punter. They have no Pro Bowl fullback, perhaps because FB’s had become blocking backs and eventually became almost extinct. But I remember Tom Rathman played that position for years and was regarded as the best in the league before Moose Johnson came along. They seem well-stocked other than that. Interesting that Young made the Pro Bowl more than Montana: you can’t go wrong either way with those two. They’ve got 6 defensive linemen and 6 linebackers so they could go 4-3 or 3-4 on defense.
PATS
Jake Bailey 2020, P
Tom Brady 2001, 2004, 2005, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, QB
Troy Brown 2001, WR
Tedy Bruschi 2004, RILB
Malcolm Butler 2015, CB
Andre Carter 2011, DE
Jaimie Collins 2015, LB
James Develin 2017, FB (I’ve never heard of this guy: in his career, he ran the ball 15 times and caught 31 passes. He had to be a special teams guy, like Matthew Slater, below. He returned 4 punts)
Stephon Gilmore 2017, 2019, 2020, CB
Stephen Gostkowski 2008, 2013, 2014, 2015, PK
Rob Gronkowski 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2017, TE
Dont’a Hightower 2016, 2019, LB
Larry Izzo 2002, 2004, LB
J. C. Jackson 2021, CB
Chandler Jones 2015, DE
Mack Jones, 2021, QB
Matt Judon 2021, 2022, OLB
Dan Koppen 2007, C
Ty Law 2001, 2002, 2003, LCB
Matt Light 2006, 2007, 2010, LT
Logan Mankins 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 LG
Jerod Mayo 2010, 2012 ILB
Devin McCourty 2010, 2016, FS
Willie McGinest 2003 RDE
Brandon Meriweather 2009, 2010, FS
Lawyer Molloy 2001, 2002, SS
Randy Moss 2007, WR
Darrelle Revis 2014, CB
Asante Samuel 2007, LCB
Richard Seymour 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, RDE
Matthew Slater 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2019, 2020, 2021, ST (Special Teams: the was listed as a wide receiver but caught only one pass. He returned 35 punts but never scored.)
Agib Talib 2013, CB
Adam Vinatieri 2002, 2004, PK
Mike Vrabel 2007, LOLB
Brian Waters 2011, G
Wes Welker 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012 WR
Vince Wilfork 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 NT
Damien Woody 2002, C
That’s 39 players who went to the Pro Bowl 98 times.
By position:
QB Tom Brady (14) Mack Jones (1)
FB James Develin (1)
RB Corey Dillon (1)
WR Troy Brown (1) Randy Moss (1) Wes Welker (4)
TE Rob Gronkowski (5)
OT Matt Light (3)
OG Logan Mankins (6) Brian Waters (1)
C Dan Koppen (1) Damien Woody (1)
PK Stephen Gostkowski (4) Adam Vinatieri (2)
P Jake Bailey (1)
DE Andre Carter (1) Chandler Jones (1) Willie McGinest (1) Richard Seymour (5)
DT Vince Wilfork (5)
OLB Jaimie Collins (1) Larry Izzo (2) Matt Judon (2) Mike Vrabel (2)
ILB Tedy Bruschi (1) Dont’a Hightower (2) Jerod Mayo (2)
CB Malcolm Butler (1) Stephon Gilmore (3) J. C. Jackson (1) Ty Law (3) Darrelle Revis (1) Asante Samuel (1) Agib Talib (1)
SS Lawyer Molloy (2)
FS Devin McCourty (2) Brandon Meriweather (3)
ST Mathew Slater (10)
They are abit thinner in Pro Bowlers than the Niners overall. They had only one offensive tackle. Richard Seymour is listed as a DE-DT. He was listed as a DE 4 of the 5 times he went to the Pro Bowl. On the other hand he was (or became) 6-6 317, so he should probably line up next to Vince Wilfork at tackle if the Pats use a 4-3. There are 5 DLs and 7 LB, so maybe they used a 3-4 more often.
So here are my starting line-ups for the two teams, with the Niners in a 4-3 with a fullback and the Pats in a 3-4 without one, meaning one WR will be a slot guy. Priority: Pro Bowl years with games played for the team in the relevant period, (1981-2001 for the Niners and 2001-2022) as a tie breaker. I’ll make Tom Rathman the Niner’s fullback. Of the seven placekickers they used in their period, the one who scored the most points was Mike Cofer, (694), barely over Ray Wersching (687). Of their ten punters the one with the most punts was Max Runager (281).
NINERS
QB Steve Young (You can insert Joe Montana if you want to)
FB Tom Rathman
RB Roger Craig
WR Terrell Owens, Jerry Rice
TE Brent Jones
OT Harris Barton, Steve Wallace
OG Randy Cross, Guy McIntyre
C Jesse Sapolu
PK Mike Cofer
P Max Runager
DE Fred Dean, Pierce Holt
DT Dana Stubblefield, Bryant Young
OLB Charles Haley, Lee Woodall
ILB Ken Norton Jr., Winfred Tubbs
CB Ronnie Lott, Eric Wright
SS Tim McDonald, Carleton Williamson
FS Merton Hanks, Dwight Hicks
PATS
QB Tom Brady
RB Corey Dillon
WR Troy Brown, Randy Moss, Wes Welker
TE Rob Gronkowski
OT Matt Light and Marcus Cannon who had the most games of any Patriots tackle 2001-22 who didn’t make the pro bowl.
OG Logan Mankins, Brian Waters
C Dan Koppen
PK Stephen Gostkowski
P Jake Bailey
DE Chandler Jones, Willie McGinest
DT Richard Seymour, Vince Wilfork
OLB Larry Izzo, Mike Vrabel
ILB Dont’a Hightower, Jerod Mayo
CB Stephon Gilmore, Ty Law
SS Lawyer Molloy
FS Devin McCourty, Brandon Meriweather
So those are the line-ups: Have at it boys!