The paper article about Tyler and Malachi is more than interesting--

[AlaskaSU]

Lydon's ceiling is Wally Szerbiack. Hes not there yet.

At the twenty minute mark he is Curry, otherwise he is deferential.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Agree. Very possible he will transfer if he sees the writing on the wall.

The writing is so large it can be seen from space. Have to think JB is hoping KJ makes that decision sooner than later so they can start pursuing another backcourt body now. Waiting until April just makes the hunt almost futile.

 

[orangefan13]

The writing is so large it can be seen from space. Have to think JB is hoping KJ makes that decision sooner than later so they can start pursuing another backcourt body now. Waiting until April just makes the hunt almost futile.

Kaleb just isn't built with this team. His one strength right now is to feed the post off the dribble or take it to the rim when the post up guy opens a lane by drawing the attention. With Chuckwu, Lydon, Moyer, Roberson, and maybe a improved Dajuan that could change. Sometimes the smaller guy can get the bounce pass in the lane easier.

 

[TheOrangeBuddha]

Only concern with playing Lydon at the 3, is that right now he can easily step out and pop jumpers on the bigs trying to guard him off of pick and roll action. If you switch that up and Lydon is now guarded by a 6-5 to 6-8 wing player, those pick and pop opportunities are more difficult because the "new" defender should have more quickness to react.

 

[JoeyZ]

Only concern with playing Lydon at the 3, is that right now he can easily step out and pop jumpers on the bigs trying to guard him off of pick and roll action. If you switch that up and Lydon is now guarded by a 6-5 to 6-8 wing player, those pick and pop opportunities are more difficult because the "new" defender should have more quickness to react.

I think TheOrangeBuddha makes a great point. In this system, defensively, the 3 and the 4 are the same, just a different side. That provides a ton of flexibility in my eyes to play the best two forwards you have when they're more 3's and than 4's. Because, while synonymous defensively, it then becomes a concern of how you want to match up offensively. If you can stomach playing a less quick offense, then Lydon / Roberson / and Center can all play together. I don't think they often side to that though. When is the last time the 3 was more of a 4 than a 3? I would say historically the SF has most often been closer to a 2G than PF, and certainly the PF is closer to a SF than C in most cases. When it isn't the case, it just seems to limit the offense. It certainly wouldn't work in this year's offense. It's not to say it's never been the case, as Rick and Rak were forced to play the 4 at times, but I would argue that they were better offensively as 5's. I just think historically the offense has been much more productive when it was on the side of the curve where the guy played up a position (meaning a 4 was more of 3 or 4 than a 5) than down (a 5 or 4 was the 4 or 3).

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I know you're kidding, but my favorite post every season is when someone makes a hilarious suggestion that we play some tall guy at the two because we'd be really long in the zone.

"Say, do you think Baye could play some minutes at two-guard? Our zone would be sick it would be so long!"

Do you think it's hilariously funny to have Lydon at the 3? Because the zone would be sick long.

A 7'2", Roberson, TL, MR, and Battle would be the longest SU zone ever. SU would certainly be in the discussion of the team with the most length in the country. 7'2", 6'9", 6'9", 6'5", 6'5" something like that - in real height.

Lydon at the 3 seems a real possibility to me. While you may not have quite the dribble penetration that you would like, he does have a very sweet stroke and would provide scoring punch in that regard. We have had other 3s that didn't drive - like Wes for instance.

I don't think other teams in the ACC are laughing. SU would have nasty height. Teams will be breaking out the brooms to prepare for us again.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Only concern with playing Lydon at the 3, is that right now he can easily step out and pop jumpers on the bigs trying to guard him off of pick and roll action. If you switch that up and Lydon is now guarded by a 6-5 to 6-8 wing player, those pick and pop opportunities are more difficult because the "new" defender should have more quickness to react.

They'd also likely be defenders he can shoot over. :noidea:

 

[Cusefan0307]

Nobody thought he was going to play the five this year and he is! JB isn't going to put one of our best basketball players on the bench next year because he is pigeonholed to one position. The coaches will make him work on his handle. There are already instances where he played the three this year.

 

[pfister1]

I think TheOrangeBuddha makes a great point. In this system, defensively, the 3 and the 4 are the same, just a different side. That provides a ton of flexibility in my eyes to play the best two forwards you have when they're more 3's and than 4's. Because, while synonymous defensively, it then becomes a concern of how you want to match up offensively. If you can stomach playing a less quick offense, then Lydon / Roberson / and Center can all play together. I don't think they often side to that though. When is the last time the 3 was more of a 4 than a 3? I would say historically the SF has most often been closer to a 2G than PF, and certainly the PF is closer to a SF than C in most cases. When it isn't the case, it just seems to limit the offense. It certainly wouldn't work in this year's offense. It's not to say it's never been the case, as Rick and Rak were forced to play the 4 at times, but I would argue that they were better offensively as 5's. I just think historically the offense has been much more productive when it was on the side of the curve where the guy played up a position (meaning a 4 was more of 3 or 4 than a 5) than down (a 5 or 4 was the 4 or 3).

Two years ago (2013-14) we started Rak, DCII and Fair for 12 games. Then DCII was replaced by Jerami Grant for the remaining 20 or so games. Fair and Grant were definitely closer to 4s then they were 2s. That season we were reasonably successful.

Year prior to that (2012-13) we played Fair, Grant and Southerland at the forwards. Again the forwards were closer to 4s than 2s. That season was a final four season.

My guess is that Lydon will be more comfortable driving next season than he is this season. He's not going to be a guard, but we won't need him to be.

 

[Cowtown]

I think TheOrangeBuddha makes a great point. In this system, defensively, the 3 and the 4 are the same, just a different side.

In principle, sure. But most players are right handed, and so offenses tend to be right side dominant. If your 3 and 4 are equal defenders, it's less of an issue. If not, you have a decision to make: do you put your strong defender in their offense's right? Or if not, do you put a player like Lydon on their offense's left to help protect him from foul trouble? It's a tough call either way because when the offense reverses the ball with a skip pass, it's always going to go to a good shooter and Lydon would have to defend that. All depends on the coach and how he sees the the game, and what kind of kids he has. For example in m2m, do you funnel inside to where there's a big guy to help, or outside away from the basket because you have no big man? You can tweak according to your players strengths anyway you want, but it's more important to have everyone on the same page.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Two years ago (2013-14) we started Rak, DCII and Fair for 12 games. Then DCII was replaced by Jerami Grant for the remaining 20 or so games. Fair and Grant were definitely closer to 4s then they were 2s. That season we were reasonably successful.

Year prior to that (2012-13) we played Fair, Grant and Southerland at the forwards. Again the forwards were closer to 4s than 2s. That season was a final four season.

My guess is that Lydon will be more comfortable driving next season than he is this season. He's not going to be a guard, but we won't need him to be.

I would add that Wes' handle was questionable and he was more 4 than 3 too.

And while there may be some offensive limitations with Lydon at the 3, defensively Lydon would be a terror.

It looks like JB will have several options on where to put several of the players, and Lydon could play any of 3 positions depending on matchups and the skill level of Moyer.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

I think TheOrangeBuddha makes a great point. In this system, defensively, the 3 and the 4 are the same, just a different side. That provides a ton of flexibility in my eyes to play the best two forwards you have when they're more 3's and than 4's. Because, while synonymous defensively, it then becomes a concern of how you want to match up offensively. If you can stomach playing a less quick offense, then Lydon / Roberson / and Center can all play together. I don't think they often side to that though. When is the last time the 3 was more of a 4 than a 3? I would say historically the SF has most often been closer to a 2G than PF, and certainly the PF is closer to a SF than C in most cases. When it isn't the case, it just seems to limit the offense. It certainly wouldn't work in this year's offense. It's not to say it's never been the case, as Rick and Rak were forced to play the 4 at times, but I would argue that they were better offensively as 5's. I just think historically the offense has been much more productive when it was on the side of the curve where the guy played up a position (meaning a 4 was more of 3 or 4 than a 5) than down (a 5 or 4 was the 4 or 3).

I think next year we'll see Mali play some 3 again, no one seems to be allowing for that. So FH at the point, TB at the 2, Mali, Lydon and Chuk/DC would be a good offensive group, and even Lydon playing the small ball lineup back at the 5 with TRob taking out the trash as the 4. There are some nice possibilities, but the first 7 guys are pretty well set in stone in my mind.

 

[AZOrange]

Kaleb won't be the 3rd PG. As it stands now, there's absolutely no way. Could he get better? Sure. But I can't see it.

There's a negative 300% chance he plays 10 mpg at pg at SU next year.

 

[cuse62]

Coach has many different pieces to match up against teams or cause matchup problems.

 

[IthacaMatt]

In principle, sure. But most players are right handed, and so offenses tend to be right side dominant. If your 3 and 4 are equal defenders, it's less of an issue. If not, you have a decision to make: do you put your strong defender in their offense's right?

This is an interesting observation. I would add, however, that if the offense is"right handed" and starts predominantly on the right, then your best rebounding forward ought to be on the left, because about 2/3 of all rebounds go long over the back side of the rim.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think next year we'll see Mali play some 3 again, no one seems to be allowing for that. So FH at the point, TB at the 2, Mali, Lydon and Chuk/DC would be a good offensive group, and even Lydon playing the small ball lineup back at the 5 with TRob taking out the trash as the 4. There are some nice possibilities, but the first 7 guys are pretty well set in stone in my mind.

We are going to have 3 very good forwards without Malachi, and our guards will be Battle, Frankie and Kaleb, if he remains. I think it's pretty clear that Mali plays more (if not all) of his time at guard, where he is clearly needed.

 

[Cowtown]

This is an interesting observation. I would add, however, that if the offense is"right handed" and starts predominantly on the right, then your best rebounding forward ought to be on the left, because about 2/3 of all rebounds go long over the back side of the rim.

Well, to be honest it was a noticeable presence at the HS level (where I coached), but I'm sure the higher you go the less of an effect that would have. I'd bet the better athletes are more ambidextrous. And no matter what, I found it was invariably better to play to your strengths than the opponent's weakness. You can kill yourself by over-thinking. :noidea:

 

[JOC44]

Do you think it's hilariously funny to have Lydon at the 3? Because the zone would be sick long.

A 7'2", Roberson, TL, MR, and Battle would be the longest SU zone ever. SU would certainly be in the discussion of the team with the most length in the country. 7'2", 6'9", 6'9", 6'5", 6'5" something like that - in real height.

Lydon at the 3 seems a real possibility to me. While you may not have quite the dribble penetration that you would like, he does have a very sweet stroke and would provide scoring punch in that regard. We have had other 3s that didn't drive - like Wes for instance.

I don't think other teams in the ACC are laughing. SU would have nasty height. Teams will be breaking out the brooms to prepare for us again.

No, I was responding to someone else's obviously tongue-in-cheek comment that maybe Lydon should play some at the two. That's why my comment referenced hilariously funny comments in the past about putting players at the two who lack the lateral quickness to play that position in the name of being "really long." You won't see any reference to small forward in my comment.

But since you asked, yes, I think Lydon could get by at small forward, though as Buddha pointed out it might be harder to get open for his jump shot. I think he is better as a stretch four. But Lydon probably will play a fair amount at small forward next year based on the makeup of the team.

 

[CaliCuse]

Not a chance Lydon leaves after this year. Just not a NBA player at this point.

Yes of course but the real deal here is if a GM in the NBAdecides to take pass by offering a huge bank account to the kid who decides now is better than later. Tyler wouldn't be the first to think money first. they might tell him he can develop in a lower level and still have the $in his account.How many players have we lost recently who should have stayed here longer. Tyler isn't a DONE DEAL!!

 

[IthacaMatt]

Well, to be honest it was a noticeable presence at the HS level (where I coached), but I'm sure the higher you go the less of an effect that would have. I'd bet the better athletes are more ambidextrous. And no matter what, I found it was invariably better to play to your strengths than the opponent's weakness. You can kill yourself by over-thinking. :noidea:

There is some truth in what you said. Just look at the shot charts from our guys when shooting threes. Trevor makes most of his on the right side. Mike hits them mostly on the right side and at the top of the key. I think Mali might be a little more balanced, but is also a wing shooter and not so much a corner shooter.

 

[721Comstock]

There is some truth in what you said. Just look at the shot charts from our guys when shooting threes. Trevor makes most of his on the right side. Mike hits them mostly on the right side and at the top of the key. I think Mali might be a little more balanced, but is also a wing shooter and not so much a corner shooter.

Mali's miraculous late-game corner 3's beg to differ.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

No, I was responding to someone else's obviously tongue-in-cheek comment that maybe Lydon should play some at the two. That's why my comment referenced hilariously funny comments in the past about putting players at the two who lack the lateral quickness to play that position in the name of being "really long." You won't see any reference to small forward in my comment.

But since you asked, yes, I think Lydon could get by at small forward, though as Buddha pointed out it might be harder to get open for his jump shot. I think he is better as a stretch four. But Lydon probably will play a fair amount at small forward next year based on the makeup of the team.

Didn't mean to sound like I was coming at you, so thanks for taking it in stride.

It will be interesting to see what way JB goes. The one option listed with that crazy height screams a nasty D and seems a real possibility. But it would be somewhat offensively challenged with 7"2" and TR in at the same time and the driving limitations of TL. JB will have a lot of other options that involve more offense.

Does JB employ offense/defense? Does he press more? Does he use more different combinations in end game situations based on matchup but then lose developing a core group of experienced closers?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Mali's miraculous late-game corner 3's beg to differ.

I'm saying if you go by their shot charts, our guys are mostly wing shooters. Yes, that was a big shot, and it was from the corner, but that's not where most of them come from.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Assuming the right guys are back, this could be us:

C: Coleman 20 min / Chukwu 20 min OR Chukwu 20 / Thomspon 20
PF: Roberson 30 min / Moyer 10 min
SF: Lydon 30 min / Moyer 10 min
2G: Richardson 30 min / Battle 10 min
PG: Battle 20 min / Frank Howard 15 min / Kaleb Joseph 5 min

If Malachi returns, he'll be playing 38 mins per. Lydon and Roberson would be 35 or so, too.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

We are going to have 3 very good forwards without Malachi, and our guards will be Battle, Frankie and Kaleb, if he remains. I think it's pretty clear that Mali plays more (if not all) of his time at guard, where he is clearly needed.

well sure, it's easy to say he will play more at the 2, considering he hasn't played there at all this year. But I think he has proven to JB this year that he can play on the back line in the zone, so if ball handling and distribution are priorities against a particular D, Frankie mans the point and you can move Tyus over to be the finisher/slasher with Mali next to him doing the same from the other side of the floor. That is a lethal half court offense no matter who is the 4/5, and you don't get that without Mal getting some PT as a forward.