The running game

[TheCusian]

I'm not suggesting a traditional RB role for him, so it doesn't matter if he was the ball boy in HS. The kid is in a different gear than everyone else on the field. We can give the rock to DS for 2.5 yards. Or we can create something for bottled lightning ... toss sweeps, reverses, counters, screens to get him in open space ... whatever. He's insanely quick. It's the first game, I know ... but our running game looks anemic.

The edges are not the issue. Leave him in the slot and use the 1000 ways Babers gets those guys going.

It's not running outside the tackles that's the issue. It's attacking that part of the field while the LB and S are spread out.

 

[TheCusian]

Assuming the running game doesnt cost us the next 2 i think we have to wait until LSU/ncst/Pitt games to make a decision on whether its improved.. We could be avg 6 yds a carry the first 3 and still not know and LSU might shut is down just like BYU if they are as good as people think.

LSU will do what Clemson and FSU did: drop a bunch of ppl into coverage and let their DL handle the run/pass rush. It's imperative that Pierce, Dungey (a few times and slide), Elmore, and the RB make them pay for selling out vs the pass.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Assuming the running game doesnt cost us the next 2 i think we have to wait until LSU/ncst/Pitt games to make a decision on whether its improved.. .

Just a simple take, the running game is vanilla for many reasons already stated: O-Line personnel not used to each other, RB's not being patient for opening, RBs not seeing the holes, etc. I also think that HCDB kept the running game vanilla to hold back on what they can actually do and to give the guys more time to adjust to the D1 level. I am not as concerned as I was last season. Let teams focus on stopping the run, this offense will score, and do so fast. Once teams focus on stopping the pass, the run game will open up. And no, I don't think we are ready to run all over Clemson, but on any given Saturday...

Remember that HCDB's offense is an opportunistic offense and is designed to make final call on run/pass at the line, once the O sees what the defense scheme is. I think that most opponents are still skeptical of HCDB's offense and will make the Orange beat them with the pass for another year or two.

I don't think you just suddenly install a ground game for your important opponents later in the schedule, or opportunistically discover a ground game for a particular opponent because that's what they're giving you. Running games are built on repetition, and right now, like SWC said, they are looking an awful lot like they did all last season on the ground. That was likely the worst opponent we will face all year, and we were only averaging 2 or 3 yards a carry unless it was Eric Dungey carrying the ball.

 

[sufandu]

I don't think you just suddenly install a ground game for your important opponents later in the schedule, or opportunistically discover a ground game for a particular opponent because that's what they're giving you. Running games are built on repetition, and right now, like SWC said, they are looking an awful lot like they did all last season on the ground. That was likely the worst opponent we will face all year, and we were only averaging 2 or 3 yards a carry unless it was Eric Dungey carrying the ball.

Yeah. I'm shelving my hope for a running game until next year and moving on to continued progression of the passing game and improvement on defense as what will give us a shot at a bowl game.

 

[kcsu]

The bottom line is we dont have one RB on our team who would start for any team that we play going forward.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The bottom line is we dont have one RB on our team who would start for any team that we play going forward.

Didn't we chase one away who was better than everyone we have left on the roster (not counting the true frosh)?

 

[Whitey23]

Didn't we chase one away who was better than everyone we have left on the roster (not counting the true frosh)?

Not based on the HC's opinion.

 

[blizz]

Regarding the oline, many of the plays that look like dives are rpo's that the qb will check into based on the coverage. The oline won't know if it's a run or pass because that is determined by a post snap read, so they default to what will look like pass blocking. If you just think about the numbers there is almost always an unblocked defender, if teams leave 7 in the box it's 2 unblocked, 8 in the box and it's 3. Now I don't care what you think a running back should do, but no one is beating 2 unblocked defenders in a phone booth like that.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Didn't we chase one away who was better than everyone we have left on the roster (not counting the true frosh)?

No.

 

[bnoro]

Didn't we chase one away who was better than everyone we have left on the roster (not counting the true frosh)?

No, the lazy one that couldn't get his body ready for Dino's first camp left the program because he wasn't happy with the carries he didn't earn.

 

[SmilinBob]

No, the lazy one that couldn't get his body ready for Dino's first camp left the program because he wasn't happy with the carries he didn't earn.

That would make sense. Too bad, he (Frederiks) hurt the team as well but you have to like DB sticking to his principles and making no exceptions.

 

[HtownOrange]

I don't think you just suddenly install a ground game for your important opponents later in the schedule, or opportunistically discover a ground game for a particular opponent because that's what they're giving you. Running games are built on repetition, and right now, like SWC said, they are looking an awful lot like they did all last season on the ground. That was likely the worst opponent we will face all year, and we were only averaging 2 or 3 yards a carry unless it was Eric Dungey carrying the ball.

My comment was more geared towards growing the new guys and the OL as opposed to suddenly installing a ground game as you suggest. "Keep It Simple Stupid" works, add a little more as the OL and the RBs progress. You have true freshmen in the backfield and an OL that has some experience but was so mauled last season that they had no continuity. I don't think out running game will be impressive in the biggest games, but I see HCDB as being content to get them to serviceable in the big games. HCDB expects 2,000+ yards/season from the running game once he has all his pieces in the offense, that is in addition to the 5,000+ yards/season. These are HCDB's stated expectations, not an Orange-glasses fan (though, I do like the Orange hue!).

By growing, I mean that the offense install some of the plays the new players know, get used to them, add a few more plays, get used to them, etc. When throwing too much new information at new personnel, confusion can be created and we know HCDB plainly states it takes approximately 1.5 seasons for players to fully understand the offense and to gel. why would he expect a freshman (redshirt or true) to fully understand offense and to gel in one game?

 

[SWC75]

The edges are not the issue. Leave him in the slot and use the 1000 ways Babers gets those guys going.

It's not running outside the tackles that's the issue. It's attacking that part of the field while the LB and S are spread out.

 

[PhatOrange]

2015 Bowling Green Rushing Stats

Travis Green - 1298 yards 5.8 average
Fred Coppet - 826 yards 5.7 average

Team = 180 ypg

2014 Bowling Green Rushing Stats

173 ypg

Travis Green - 949 yards / 5.3 average
Fred Coppet - 764 yards / 5.4 average
Andre Givens - 479 yards/ 4.7 average

So what is the problem? IMO, Bowling Green had better running backs. I remember watching Travis Green run and I remember when Babers was hired watching lots of their film, Green/Coppet were much pure running backs than what we have now at #1 and #2. Hopefully Pierre starts getting more reps.

FWIW

Green was 5-10 183
Coppet was 5-9 213

 

[sufandu]

Regarding the oline, many of the plays that look like dives are rpo's that the qb will check into based on the coverage. The oline won't know if it's a run or pass because that is determined by a post snap read, so they default to what will look like pass blocking. If you just think about the numbers there is almost always an unblocked defender, if teams leave 7 in the box it's 2 unblocked, 8 in the box and it's 3. Now I don't care what you think a running back should do, but no one is beating 2 unblocked defenders in a phone booth like that.

If that's the case, didn't the qb make the wrong decision? 7 or 8 in the box with unblocked defenders should mean we have open recievers.

 

[TheCusian]

If that's the case, didn't the qb make the wrong decision? 7 or 8 in the box with unblocked defenders should mean we have open recievers.

I don't know. I think it's probably guys not running well and sometimes (like Colgate last year) they run it even with the numbers just to see.

 

[sufandu]

I don't know. I think it's probably guys not running well and sometimes (like Colgate last year) they run it even with the numbers just to see.

Then that's not really a RPO, it's a called running play and the oline should be blocking downhill instead of giving a pass block look.

 

[TheCusian]

Then that's not really a RPO, it's a called running play and the oline should be blocking downhill instead of giving a pass block look.

Could be. That's why I led with "I don't know"...

Spitballing - if the goal is to gain lots of yards, you read it correctly and throw the deep ball to your outside WR who is on one on one coverage. But I'm suggesting that it's more of a "trying QB#4 in an actual game" strategy. The numbers aren't there, but give it to Strick and see if he can beat the extra man since we're up 30 points to an FCS school. It also messes with the tendencies you're putting on tape.

I don't think they traditionally run block that much anyways.

 

[blizz]

If that's the case, didn't the qb make the wrong decision? 7 or 8 in the box with unblocked defenders should mean we have open recievers.

Very astute observation. I don't have a good answer other than to point out that the hand off is based on a post snap read. So there could be 8 in the box and the read defender can still make a choice that dictates you hand off the ball. The question becomes why was that the call or the check in the first place if the box was so loaded? I want to believe they were simply working on the interior run game, but that is a bit far fetched.

 

[blizz]

Then that's not really a RPO, it's a called running play and the oline should be blocking downhill instead of giving a pass block look.

Even in the RPO situation, the oline have assignments and rules regarding who to block and where to redirect. Remember that zone blocking (in principle) is based on using the defenders declaration against them, essentially you're pushing them in the direction they are already going. They are trying to create running lanes and it shouldnt make much difference where those are, the back needs to be able to improvise on the fly and exploit small creases. I think Strick has done a good job of finding the interior creases, thats why he pretty consistently gains 2 or 3 yards on those dives. But he has not been able to beat a defender in the hole and break through to the second level or deal with the collapse of those running lanes. I think he gets a bad rap on here and people aren't appreciating how difficult it is to do what he's being asked in this system.

 

[sufandu]

Could be. That's why I led with "I don't know"...

Spitballing - if the goal is to gain lots of yards, you read it correctly and throw the deep ball to your outside WR who is on one on one coverage. But I'm suggesting that it's more of a "trying QB#4 in an actual game" strategy. The numbers aren't there, but give it to Strick and see if he can beat the extra man since we're up 30 points to an FCS school. It also messes with the tendencies you're putting on tape.

I don't think they traditionally run block that much anyways.

I get that they don't traditionally run block. That was referenced in the post I responded to. That post mentioned having more defenders in the box than we could block. That's why I said what I said. I would agree with the "just give it to Strick... because we're up 30" theory if we hadn't seen it early in the game before we were up 30 and if Dungey wasn't Dungeying for all of his rushing yards.

 

[SmilinBob]

My hope is that this first game showed the OL what they need to improve on and they and work hard this week to improve that. CCS gave them something different than they had in practice vs their teammates so maybe this was a wake up call for them. 4 out of 5 come back next year as well so they need to keep that drive to improvement .

On another note...is there some kind of design or method to teach RB's ways to read holes/blocks? Some kind of moving parts that show where a hole may be once their original hole was plugged? There are so many virtual this and that things out there why not have something devised to teach them some muscle memory/eye read to help them improve their technique and get the most possible yards possible? Also, maybe as some pointed out they didn't hit the hole quick enough or let it develop in time? I want the running game to be successful...it has to be to get to the next level.

 

[orangepassion]

My hope is that this first game showed the OL what they need to improve on and they and work hard this week to improve that. CCS gave them something different than they had in practice vs their teammates so maybe this was a wake up call for them. 4 out of 5 come back next year as well so they need to keep that drive to improvement .

On another note...is there some kind of design or method to teach RB's ways to read holes/blocks? Some kind of moving parts that show where a hole may be once their original hole was plugged? There are so many virtual this and that things out there why not have something devised to teach them some muscle memory/eye read to help them improve their technique and get the most possible yards possible? Also, maybe as some pointed out they didn't hit the hole quick enough or let it develop in time? I want the running game to be successful...it has to be to get to the next level.

Maybe give them the technology that they give the QBs, where they make reads

 

[Millhouse]

Hit and Run (no time for anything)
Neal is a scatback
Strickland is a WR but we have enough of those so put him somewhere on defense (safety?)
I can't believe it wasn't rectified in the offseason. I believe in babers offense but I don't know what he's seeing here that we're all missing

 

[690West]

Hit and Run (no time for anything)
Neal is a scatback
Strickland is a WR but we have enough of those so put him somewhere on defense (safety?)
I can't believe it wasn't rectified in the offseason. I believe in babers offense but I don't know what he's seeing here that we're all missing

Millhouse!!!!