The zone is a work of art

[FrancoPizza]

No, but it sounded like you think this is more than a blip on the radar. Which is panic monkey talk.

I think it's a valid discussion as to whether the zone's best days are behind us similar to the rise and fall of the triple option. More teams are being exposed to zone principles, and teams are more prepared to play against it than they were, say, 5+ years ago. Even with Pikachu anchoring the zone next year, don't expect the same effectiveness that it had in 2011-2012. Of course, relative to the past couple years, it will seem like a huge improvement... but that's hardly justification to continue down this same path.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I think it's a valid discussion as to whether the zone's best days are behind us similar to the rise and fall of the triple option. More teams are being exposed to zone principles, and teams are more prepared to play against it than they were, say, 5+ years ago. Even with Pikachu anchoring the zone next year, don't expect the same effectiveness that it had in 2011-2012. Of course, relative to the past couple years, it will seem like a huge improvement... but that's hardly justification to continue down this same path.

Sweet sample size.

 

[RF2044]

it's still a bunch of anecdotal crap, are you the one to determine whether or not the team "expended their maximum effort" or whether or not they "played hard enough" to meet your criteria. the more fair stance is to assume that the team plays "as hard as it can" and they are either good or bad. to pin the teams success or failure on "how hard they play" i think is a convoluted way of judging a team. so are you saying that this team has plenty of talent but they don't play hard enough, or wait, they don't "expend maximum effort"? what evidence do you have that they don't "play hard. every game." i think you meant to use the anecdote "leave it all on the court" but in some oversight said "don't leave anything out on the court". to me that sounds like advice, like don't forget your basketball shoes on the court or something. goodnight ryan, you are a good man.

No offense, but that is patently false. Forget this totally subjective "harder than the other team" dynamic that you're trying to attribute to me, even though I never said anything of the kind -- it is very easy to gauge effort. Are our players getting on the ball for loose balls? Are we outhustling the opposition to chase down loose balls? Are we scrapping for rebounds, like we did against Uconn / aTm?

Giving maximum effort doesn't mean you automatically win, nor does it make up for certain team shortcomings. But there are definitely games where it is apparent that we aren't playing like that. Indisputable, especially when you see how some teams corral loose balls or dive on the floor compared to us.

 

[AlaskaSU]

I could be wrong...but

The way I remember the game we did try pressuring their 3 point shooters for a short time in the second half. At one point our guards started playing them tighter on the outside, but then they proceeded to get the ball inside with relative ease, and for the most part easily converted inside.

When that happened I think our D was faced with a dilemma. The old let them shoot 3's they'll start missing approach works when they miss. We can also get carved up inside if the opponent has decent bigs.

To lose to that St John's team was a confluence of badness. Bad rebounding, bad shooting, and bad defense.

I'm not ready to blame Hop though.

Thanks a lot, you just ruined my day. You are right; when we did briefly change the zone to stick to their two shooters instead of playing the passing lanes and sagging, the Jons went inside with ease. In order to allow the zone to adjust to hot outside shooters you have to protect the inside. We are a deeply flawed team. A large part of it is bad luck; DCII has lost any quickness or spring in his legs, and Diagne is beyond explanation. My hope is not to have a losing season and to live to fight again next year, and just maybe the team will give us a pleasant surprise this year.

 

[FrancoPizza]

No offense, but that is patently false. Forget this totally subjective "harder than the other team" dynamic that you're trying to attribute to me, even though I never said anything of the kind -- it is very easy to gauge effort. Are our players getting on the ball for loose balls? Are we outhustling the opposition to chase down loose balls? Are we scrapping for rebounds, like we did against Uconn / aTm?

Giving maximum effort doesn't mean you automatically win, nor does it make up for certain team shortcomings. But there are definitely games where it is apparent that we aren't playing like that. Indisputable, especially when you see how some teams corral loose balls or dive on the floor compared to us.

Son, if effort was the only thing lacking against St. John's, we still should have rolled them giving 10% effort. I think you need a bar or line chart illustrating how bad St. John's is. You're not comprehending this.

 

[RF2044]

Son, if effort was the only thing lacking against St. John's, we still should have rolled them giving 10% effort. I think you need a bar or line chart illustrating how bad St. John's is. You're not comprehending this.

Why are you so preoccupied with the St. John's game? Christ, let it go. There are numerous threads devoted to the topic, which I've already weighed in on. If you want to know what I comprehend about that loss, feel free to go read them instead of subjecting us to a season long whine session about one game.

If we take care of business in the conference portion of the schedule, we'll make the NCAA tournament. If we don't, then the St. John's game isn't going to matter. That's what you're not comprehending.

One loss doesn't define the season. Let's hope we can get to where at least on the bubble, where it might matter. I'm not sure that this team can.

 

[two3zone]

Thanks a lot, you just ruined my day. You are right; when we did briefly change the zone to stick to their two shooters instead of playing the passing lanes and sagging, the Jons went inside with ease. In order to allow the zone to adjust to hot outside shooters you have to protect the inside. We are a deeply flawed team. A large part of it is bad luck; DCII has lost any quickness or spring in his legs, and Diagne is beyond explanation. My hope is not to have a losing season and to live to fight again next year, and just maybe the team will give us a pleasant surprise this year.

There was quickness and springs in his legs before?

 

[Fly Rodder]

Duke used to play man to man exclusively. Then Coach K picked JB's brain and now they mix in multiple looks including a 2-3 zone. I guess Coach K doesn't know what he's doing since he doesn't stick with one defense.

It's funny, in one thread there are comments that Syracuse plays every game to win and that's why underclassman don't get any run to get more experience - JB isn't worried about next season. But Syracuse will play zone defense while they're getting their clocks cleaned and people chalk it up to well, you're going to win some because of the zone and you're going lose some because of the zone. Frankly, I want to win them all. I think it's silly to sit back in a zone and let a team toast your defense when you're playing with limited possessions and have a weak team (weaker offense and no depth, if it was the 2010 team, it's a different story).

Syracuse can't lose too many winnable games this season and it if it takes a few minutes of pressure man to knock a hot shooter down a few pegs, I'm all for it.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I guess Coach K doesn't know what he's doing since he doesn't stick with one defense.

there are whispers that K is exceeding the maximum number of practice hours per week. I mean how else can a team be expected to learn more than one defense and be effective?

 

[AlaskaSU]

There was quickness and springs in his legs before?

No, but if he would have lost the weight he probably would have been quick enough assuming that he did not get injured.

 

[NineOneSeven]

In today's game, more and more shooters are occupying the floor, especially at the four and five position. This is particularly true right now in the NBA. One could argue both ways whether this is good or bad for an all zone team, but I can immediately think of more negatives than positives. I also have no stats to back this up, just my eye.