This blew my mind...

[Forza Azzurri]

According to Gazetta dello Sport, Giovinco is now the highest paid Italian soccer player in the world...

According to la Gazetta, he tripled his salary by moving to Toronto FC.

My question is why?

Why pay the guy triple what he was earning? He is a very good player but not close to being a Messi or CR...

 

[DeGrozz]

Toronto FC has a chance to be an all-time MLS team over the next few years. They've filled so many of their holes after a disappointing season with legitimate international quality players.

The MLS has made some big moves this offseason. The quality of the league next year may be it's best ever.

 

[storange]

Im a big MLS fan and its great to see the players coming in, but there will be no real jump in the quality of the league until they obliterate the current Salary Cap level. I think its some thing like 4 or 5 million with each DP counting 400k on the cap (3 DPs allowed ) These numbers arent exact but its something like that. And they have to dump the single entity crap. The league is popular enough now to move forward.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

According to Gazetta dello Sport, Giovinco is now the highest paid Italian soccer player in the world...

According to la Gazetta, he tripled his salary by moving to Toronto FC.

My question is why?

Why pay the guy triple what he was earning? He is a very good player but not close to being a Messi or CR...

Not being smart a@!, but is any of that based on exchange rates and cost of living?

 

[DeGrozz]

Im a big MLS fan and its great to see the players coming in, but there will be no real jump in the quality of the league until they obliterate the current Salary Cap level. I think its some thing like 4 or 5 million with each DP counting 400k on the cap (3 DPs allowed ) These numbers arent exact but its something like that. And they have to dump the single entity crap. The league is popular enough now to move forward.

I partially agree with that, and I think the next CBA will hopefully be a step in the right direction regarding salaries, but right now I think that the biggest issue with the league is that there isn't enough talent to go around. Every year there are only a few teams that you can really see competing for a championship or shield. I think the best way to improve the quality of the league is to get more teams in that upper echelon and it looks like more teams will be joining that upper level of soccer in the MLS. Unfortunately, the bottom of the league is still gonna be pretty crummy this year.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I partially agree with that, and I think the next CBA will hopefully be a step in the right direction regarding salaries, but right now I think that the biggest issue with the league is that there isn't enough talent to go around. Every year there are only a few teams that you can really see competing for a championship or shield. I think the best way to improve the quality of the league is to get more teams in that upper echelon and it looks like more teams will be joining that upper level of soccer in the MLS. Unfortunately, the bottom of the league is still gonna be pretty crummy this year.

That's a function of the salary cap - it's a chicken-or-egg thing. If you can afford to pay players more money, you'll get better players. Right now, an MLS side can compete with a mid-table Premier League side through about the first 8 or 9 players on the roster, but then the quality of the other players drops off on an MLS team.

Several things in MLS's favor - its a fast physical game, travel and living in the US is very good compared to many other countries, players don't have to worry about their paychecks bouncing because a team is in financial trouble. For some guys in Central and South America, that's a legitimate concern, bigger than you would think. Players see MLS as a legitimate alternative to other "developmental" leagues like Holland or maybe France.

Right now, the MLS's best teams are on par with a mid-table Premier League side, and the rest of them are about comparable to a Championship-level team. They could strike to get rid of the salary cap and bring about free agency since the new collective bargaining agreement is currently being negotiated. I'm not sure that the league is sound enough yet to withstand the risk of full-blown free agency, but they are trending in the right direction.

 

[DeGrozz]

That's a function of the salary cap - it's a chicken-or-egg thing. If you can afford to pay players more money, you'll get better players. Right now, an MLS side can compete with a mid-table Premier League side through about the first 8 or 9 players on the roster, but then the quality of the other players drops off on an MLS team.

Several things in MLS's favor - its a fast physical game, travel and living in the US is very good compared to many other countries, players don't have to worry about their paychecks bouncing because a team is in financial trouble. For some guys in Central and South America, that's a legitimate concern, bigger than you would think. Players see MLS as a legitimate alternative to other "developmental" leagues like Holland or maybe France.

Right now, the MLS's best teams are on par with a mid-table Premier League side, and the rest of them are about comparable to a Championship-level team. They could strike to get rid of the salary cap and bring about free agency since the new collective bargaining agreement is currently being negotiated. I'm not sure that the league is sound enough yet to withstand the risk of full-blown free agency, but they are trending in the right direction.

I agree with you that's it's partially a function of the salary cap, but it's also a function of owner's willing to spend on DPs, the lack of legitimate development academies for the majority of the league's existence, etc. But you are right about the MLS capitalizing on Latin American talent -- that's been a nice path of quality improvement for the league.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I'm wondering how you are comparing the best MLS teams with mid-level EPL teams. I'm a pretty big soccer fan. I am an MLS season ticket holder, I am a Direct Kick subscriber on AppleTV and a pretty avid game watcher, but I have no idea how that claim can be supported. Look at LAG -- second in the shield standings and MLS Cup champions. Robbie Keane could have found a mid-level EPL job, but not in a starring role like he had with LA. Omar probably could find a gig and get a fair shot at some run in a top league, but who else? Landon had taken a big step back since making an impact on a really good Everton team. Zardes is a great young player, but no way does he get the minutes he got at a mid-level EPL team, he'd probably have trouble making most game day rosters. AJDLG again is a good player, but he's not in the league of some of the CBs that the US has sent to the EPL. Robbie Rogers was struggling to find time in League 1 and needed to find a loan to League 2 before calling it quits in England... Don't get me wrong, I love the MLS, but let's not go overboard when assessing it's current quality.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I'm wondering how you are comparing the best MLS teams with mid-level EPL teams.

Actually what I said was: "Right now, an MLS side can compete with a mid-table Premier League side through about the first 8 or 9 players on the roster, but then the quality of the other players drops off on an MLS team", not that the Galaxy is the equal of Chelsea, but of Stoke or Newcastle - and then only through the first 8 or 9 men, not 18 deep. Are you saying I'm that far off the mark?

I know I'm giving MLS a bit of a benefit of the doubt, but hear me out. Clint Dempsey is a guy who scored 15 goals in the Premier League. Donovan wasn't his best this past year, but this past year wasn't his whole MLS career. Weight training and fitness training in the US is still much better than much of the European professional world. Even Premier League elite teams come to NFL and top 25 level athletic facilities and they are floored, every single summer. Arsene Wenger's "revolution" in English football (fitness and nutrition training) was something American football and basketball teams have known about for 30 years. We have better athletes, generally speaking, than they do.

That's why US teams way over-perform their skill level internationally. Sure, you might say that the Championship in England is a better match, then, but compared to the Championship, you have way more quality goal scorers in the US than you do in the Championship. That's the biggest challenge every promoted Championship side has - where are the goals going to come from? MLS, especially with the import of Central American and Caribbean players, has a noticeably higher skill level than the Championship.

Going back to my original point, if you take a look at the Galaxy roster, they've got how many Internationals compared to most mid-table EPL teams? Is it that big a difference? MLS is becoming less a league where old geezers go to get a final paycheck and they are automatically the best players on their teams. When Didier Drogba went to China instead of MLS, the media there asked him whether that meant he felt football in China was on par or better than in the US, and he quickly dismissed that thought. Jermaine Defoe just went back from MLS into the EPL. He scored 15 a couple years ago for Spurs, didn't he?

The biggest problems MLS have are surfaces, the salary cap, and an academy system. Hell, they could even officially adopt the FIFA calendar, and take off January and February (like Russian does), and then take off July, how different would it be?

 

[jekelish]

RE: the salary cap, man, they have to be SUPER careful at this point in the growth of the MLS. I heard a soundbyte from Michael Bradley dropping the word "strike" in there...I hope these guys realize that if they strike, they're spelling the doom of their league. The MLS isn't at the same point as an NBA or MLB, where there's so much popularity that it'll bounce right back after a player strike. If MLS goes away for a season, it'll crush the momentum it's been getting.

 

[DeGrozz]

Actually what I said was: "Right now, an MLS side can compete with a mid-table Premier League side through about the first 8 or 9 players on the roster, but then the quality of the other players drops off on an MLS team", not that the Galaxy is the equal of Chelsea, but of Stoke or Newcastle - and then only through the first 8 or 9 men, not 18 deep. Are you saying I'm that far off the mark?

I know I'm giving MLS a bit of a benefit of the doubt, but hear me out. Clint Dempsey is a guy who scored 15 goals in the Premier League. Donovan wasn't his best this past year, but this past year wasn't his whole MLS career. Weight training and fitness training in the US is still much better than much of the European professional world. Even Premier League elite teams come to NFL and top 25 level athletic facilities and they are floored, every single summer. Arsene Wenger's "revolution" in English football (fitness and nutrition training) was something American football and basketball teams have known about for 30 years. We have better athletes, generally speaking, than they do.

That's why US teams way over-perform their skill level internationally. Sure, you might say that the Championship in England is a better match, then, but compared to the Championship, you have way more quality goal scorers in the US than you do in the Championship. That's the biggest challenge every promoted Championship side has - where are the goals going to come from? MLS, especially with the import of Central American and Caribbean players, has a noticeably higher skill level than the Championship.

Going back to my original point, if you take a look at the Galaxy roster, they've got how many Internationals compared to most mid-table EPL teams? Is it that big a difference? MLS is becoming less a league where old geezers go to get a final paycheck and they are automatically the best players on their teams. When Didier Drogba went to China instead of MLS, the media there asked him whether that meant he felt football in China was on par or better than in the US, and he quickly dismissed that thought. Jermaine Defoe just went back from MLS into the EPL. He scored 15 a couple years ago for Spurs, didn't he?

The biggest problems MLS have are surfaces, the salary cap, and an academy system. Hell, they could even officially adopt the FIFA calendar, and take off January and February (like Russian does), and then take off July, how different would it be?

There might be some one-off exceptions for DPs who can play at the EPL-level, but I don't think you could find one team in the league who could go 8 or 9 deep with an EPL club.

As for internationals, there's not even a comparison between a mid-table EPL team and any team in the MLS. You can look at LA, they have a few internationals from the US, a few from other CONCACAF teams and their DPs, but have you ever looked at a mid-table premier league club's roster? Just on Newcastle alone you have players who have laced up for the following countries:

Argentina
Italy
Netherlands
France
Senegal
Ireland
Australia

Couple that with youth team members that are representing some of the best youth teams in Europe and the comparison just isn't there. And it's not just Newcastle. Everton has a strong international presence, Stoke has a strong international presence -- those teams are sitting 9 10 and 11 right now -- it's not even comparable -- I'm just trying to figure out where you are coming up with the basis for your opinions, because I can't find anything that would reasonably support your claim.

The MLS is getting better, anyone who watches the game knows that, but it's a long, long way from even the best teams being anywhere close to mid-level EPL. I think if you are being honest with the facts you could objectively make the argument that the best teams in MLS history might be able to get into a promotion fight in the Championship, the best team or two ever may avoid relegation in the EPL, depending on the year, but there are just such enormous holes in even the best MLS rosters that it's just too difficult to see how they wouldn't be exploited at a much higher level.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I'm just trying to figure out where you are coming up with the basis for your opinions, because I can't find anything that would reasonably support your claim.
.

It's the eyeball test. When the US played England in the 2010 World Cup, we held our own with them. It wasn't based on the skill level of our players, as much as it was based on their athleticism and attitude. Yes, you can say Jozy Altidore couldn't cut it in the Premier League, but that's down to the squad, the coach, and his ability to fit within their game plan, as much as it is about his "quality".

You see US players do well in the Premier League, maybe not boatloads of them, but enough to know that it wasn't a fluke. Geoff Cameron is a starter. Deuce was a starter. Donovan was a starter. Brian McBride and Carlos Bocanegra were major contributors to their team for several years. The best Americans are able to force their way into English sides, despite the obvious bias against our players by more "traditional" English/Scottish coaches who populate the Premier League.

You have a new group who are young players trying to break into teams in Germany. You have Yedlin going to Spurs. You have guys playing in the Mexican League, several of them, in fact, and the Mexican League is not that bad.

Then you look at International results - yes, some of them were friendlies, but the US has shown that, on its day, it can play with the best sides in the world. In the last 20 years, we've had major wins, beating England, drawing with England at the 2010 World Cup, beating Columbia, Portugal, Mexico ( in the World Cup), Algeria and Spain in competitive matches, all prior to Klinsmann becoming the coach.

Since then, we beat Germany in a friendly and gave them a pretty good game at the Brazil World Cup, we beat Italy in Italy, Ghana in the World Cup, drew with Portugal at the World Cup, beat Scotland, Mexico at the Azteca, Turkey, Nigeria, the Czech Republic, and Costa Rica. We had a streak of something like 13 competitive matches without a loss. Foreign coaches may sneer at the perceived lack of technical ability among US players, but our teams routinely out-perform expectations, if you were going by skill level alone.

That's what I'm basing my opinion on. Just because a coach in the Premier League is thinking short-term and doesn't want to take a chance on an American doesn't mean that the American couldn't do well if given the chance. Our international results bear that out, in my opinion. And it's these players (and even more talented, skilled imports from Central America and the Caribbean) who make up the typical MLS team.

 

[DeGrozz]

What do international results over the last 10 years by American teams primarily led by LD and players playing in Europe have anything to do with the quality of the MLS? I'm not questioning our (the USMNT's) international record or recent run of success over the last 8 years or so.

I said that I don't think there is any valid basis for saying an MLS team, especially these past few years, is a mid-level EPL quality. Nor do I think you could find a team with more than 3 or 4 EPL level players, let alone 8 or 9. If you have an example of a roster and the players, that'd be helpful though.

 

[storange]

That's a function of the salary cap - it's a chicken-or-egg thing. If you can afford to pay players more money, you'll get better players. Right now, an MLS side can compete with a mid-table Premier League side through about the first 8 or 9 players on the roster, but then the quality of the other players drops off on an MLS team.

Several things in MLS's favor - its a fast physical game, travel and living in the US is very good compared to many other countries, players don't have to worry about their paychecks bouncing because a team is in financial trouble. For some guys in Central and South America, that's a legitimate concern, bigger than you would think. Players see MLS as a legitimate alternative to other "developmental" leagues like Holland or maybe France.

Right now, the MLS's best teams are on par with a mid-table Premier League side, and the rest of them are about comparable to a Championship-level team. They could strike to get rid of the salary cap and bring about free agency since the new collective bargaining agreement is currently being negotiated. I'm not sure that the league is sound enough yet to withstand the risk of full-blown free agency, but they are trending in the right direction.

Yes, depth is a real problem with MLS especially for those teams that have to play in concacaf champions league, In the end MLS teams always lose out to the better funded Mexican League teams due to lack of depth. Happens every year. I always thought the top teams in MLS would be in the fight to avoid relegation in BPL. But would probably lose out in the long run due to ...depth.

 

[storange]

What do international results over the last 10 years by American teams primarily led by LD and players playing in Europe have anything to do with the quality of the MLS? I'm not questioning our (the USMNT's) international record or recent run of success over the last 8 years or so.

I said that I don't think there is any valid basis for saying an MLS team, especially these past few years, is a mid-level EPL quality. Nor do I think you could find a team with more than 3 or 4 EPL level players, let alone 8 or 9. If you have an example of a roster and the players, that'd be helpful though.

I guess I would be somewhere in the middle on this argument. Let see LA had three in LD Keane and Gonzalez, then a few that would be close in Juninho, Zardes, maybe Delagarza . Of course when you say an EPL roster your talking about two very distinct rosters from Chelsea to Crystal Palace. There might be teams with 5 players that could make CP but of course not the big 4 ( now the big 5 I guess )

 

[DeGrozz]

I guess I would be somewhere in the middle on this argument. Let see LA had three in LD Keane and Gonzalez, then a few that would be close in Juninho, Zardes, maybe Delagarza . Of course when you say an EPL roster your talking about two very distinct rosters from Chelsea to Crystal Palace. There might be teams with 5 players that could make CP but of course not the big 4 ( now the big 5 I guess )

I agree with you on LD, Keane, and Gonzalez (though I don't think this season's LD would have as much of an impact as prior years when he was loaned to Everton).

I don't think Juninho would make it in England (or another big league in Europe that plays closer to his style), but I am pretty bear-ish on him. I don't really understand why the Galaxy has allowed him to play such an integral role in their mid-field for the last few years. I feel like so much of his play is neutral. He doesn't add a ton to the attack, he's not a great defender, but at the same time, I never really come away thinking he's been dominated in the midfield against better competition (compare his performance vs Jones and New England in the Finals against Dax McCarthy's performance in the Eastern Conference finals, to see what I mean).

I like DLG as a player and think he's a fantastic partner with Gonzo (I even think he got moved around the backline during last year's playoffs, so he's versatile), but to be a skinny, 5' 9" centerback in the EPL, you need to be a fantastic player, not just pretty good. I do think he could get some run on a decent side in the Championship though.

Zardes is going to be good, but he's still developing. I honestly don't see him getting EPL minutes based on what he did last year, but I wouldn't be surprised if he makes a huge leap in the next few years both with the USMNT and to a bigger league. The guy seems to have all the tools.

But I guess that's maybe 3 to 5 (which I think is generous) on the best team in the league. Looking at other teams -- even good teams -- you can be hard-pressed to come up with 2 or 3, even when giving the benefit of the doubt.

Edit: Anyway, this is awesome, I didn't expect a day with the office closed to be spent talking about the MLS!

 

[ImperialOrange]

According to Gazetta dello Sport, Giovinco is now the highest paid Italian soccer player in the world...

According to la Gazetta, he tripled his salary by moving to Toronto FC.

My question is why?

Why pay the guy triple what he was earning? He is a very good player but not close to being a Messi or CR...

Depending on ad revenue and potential sponser deal increases it might pay for himself. The reason Messi and CR are untouchable is they both bring in more for their respective clubs than their 30 mil salaries cost.

 

[JarHeadJim]

They get how much to play kick ball?