We have plenty of weapons | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

We have plenty of weapons

Millhouse said:
What room are you in? Most people get that and talk about it.
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What world are you in? Not everyone in this thread feels that way.
 
tipphill said:
the only weapons of consequence at this point is the qb and the oline--everything else imho is a non entity at this time---its all smoke,and no substance without a competent qb and oline---and we do not have that. all the rest of what they write about is koolaid---sorry seen all this before MANY TIMES
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RF2044 said:
Go, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but honestly--do you believe that statement is true? I certainly don't--not after what we saw last year. Full disclosure, before last season, I DID believe that our skilled talent was good enough for us to get to 7-8 wins. But considering how things turned out...

Let's examine your point above. We certainly are NOT better at QB than we were 3 years ago [Nassib], or 5 years ago [Paulus was better than Hunt was last year]. 10 years ago, we're talking about the Andrew Robinson's / Cody Catalina's / David Legree's of the world -- I don't think it is clear that Hunt [last year only] was even better than that motley crew, given his on-field performance. It was that bad. And once he went down, and we promptly ran through the other three QBs at various times, I think it is fair to question whether our situation at QB was any better than it was 10 years ago--which was as poor of an era of football in program history.

I like Prince Tyson-Gulley--a lot. I think he was misused last year, and wasn't given the ball nearly enough. I also think that his numbers suffered as a function of the high level of OL injuries. Despite that, I'm not sure that PTG, as much as I liked him, was honestly any better than the RBs we've had for the past 10 years. We've had thousand yard runner after thousand yard runner. Very solid players like Curtis Brinkley, Delone Carter, Damien Rhodes, Antwon Bailey, even Jerome Smith. Quality backs. PTG had some impressively long runs. Love the kid. But I don't know that he was necessarily "better" than his predecessors from the previous 10 years.

At WR, we were awful. Flat out awful. Some of that was on the QBs, but a lot of it had to do with the talent. West had a fantastic year [even though he finished with ZERO touchdowns]. Ismael was a true frosh, and he flashed. That's about it. Nobody else did anything noteworthy. Was that really better than three years ago, when we had Lemon / Sales? Hell no. You can make the case that it was better than the Rice Moss / Tim Lane era of 10 years ago, but BFD -- that was the nadir of our WR talent. We'd better be better than that sorry level... and we marginally were, but not much more.

Again, I just think some are significantly overestimating the skilled offensive talent on this team, top to bottom, across every positional unit. I was just as guilty of that prior to last year, expecting Hunt to have a big season and the skilled players to be more solid than they were. But the proof is in the pudding, and last year's group of skilled talent compares unfavorably with as poor of talent as we had even 10 years ago, at the pinnacle of our decline.

That's a big problem--especially as we try to climb back to respectability.

The entire group has a LOT of proving to do this year. It will be interesting to see whether Ismael, Custis, Enoicy, Morris, McFarlane, Dunk, Parris, Hunt, etc. can deliver better contributions than what we got last year from our skilled "talent." Given last year's performance, I think there are a lot of unfounded attributions being made about how good the skilled talent on the team was. They were below average, at best--especially compared to high performing programs. I'm not sure how that can be legitimately debated, all you have to do is watch college football beyond our games.[/QUOTE
QUOTE for heavens sake we had a decimated offensive line,two starting wideouts down and were using third and fourth string qbs i say at least give them the benefit of the doubt thats what sutfan hardcores do...right go, dccuse tomcat bees chip ect...

...
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Being a hardcore fan doesn't require you to have blinders on.

We DID have injuries. Nobody disputes that. Even before the injuries manifested, how'd we do scoring? This wasn't a one-off problem or something that happened only after guys got hurt--it was an enormous problem from the opening game. It didn't matter who the opponent was--other than CMU, we couldn't score. And the fact of the matter is, we don't have a clue what some of these skill players are capable of, you know--because they are UNPROVEN. Let's see some production before we start feeling comfortable about our skilled talent. It remains to be seen whether these guys have the chops needed or not to help us get to .500 or above.

Here's what we DO know--turn on just about any college game, and you see teams that move the ball and score points effortlessly. And I'm not just talking about top 10 schools. Many of those programs have multiple WRs / RBs / offensive weapons that strike fear into the heart of the opposition. Name even ONE guy on our roster you can legitimately say that about. You can't, because there isn't one.

Pointing that out doesn't make me any less of a hardcore fan. We have a LONG way to go before our skilled talent is where it needs to be, let alone exceeding our peers.
 
RF2044 said:
Being a hardcore fan doesn't require you to have blinders on.

We DID have injuries. Nobody disputes that. Even before the injuries manifested, how'd we do scoring? This wasn't a one-off problem or something that happened only after guys got hurt--it was an enormous problem from the opening game. It didn't matter who the opponent was--other than CMU, we couldn't score. And the fact of the matter is, we don't have a clue what some of these skill players are capable of, you know--because they are UNPROVEN. Let's see some production before we start feeling comfortable about our skilled talent. It remains to be seen whether these guys have the chops needed or not to help us get to .500 or above.

Here's what we DO know--turn on just about any college game, and you see teams that move the ball and score points effortlessly. And I'm not just talking about top 10 schools. Many of those programs have multiple WRs / RBs / offensive weapons that strike fear into the heart of the opposition. Name even ONE guy on our roster you can legitimately say that about. You can't, because there isn't one.

Pointing that out doesn't make me any less of a hardcore fan. We have a LONG way to go before our skilled talent is where it needs to be, let alone exceeding our peers.
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I think one big mistakes fans of teams make is that since they know the names of guys on their team and often don't know the names of guys on other teams, our guys must be better. Sounds simple but it really is true. What guys do we have on offense would play for a high quality team? What guys on our team would have played on our teams from the 90's? We don't have good offensive players. At least, they haven't proven they are yet.
 
dasher said:
I think one big mistakes fans of teams make is that since they know the names of guys on their team and often don't know the names of guys on other teams, our guys must be better. Sounds simple but it really is true. What guys do we have on offense would play for a high quality team? What guys on our team would have played on our teams from the 90's? We don't have good offensive players. At least, they haven't proven they are yet.
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Somewhat related, one of the things I stopped thinking optimistically about was hearing all of the offseason workouts. Even in non 'Jameel Dumas I ate 50 packs of hostess cupcakes per day so I could play middle linebacker' years, you'd hear about all the work they put in, and I'd almost start thinking of it as if that was our edge. These guys are going to be great, how can they not be after working out so hard and spending time together doing 7 on 7s.

Took me longer than it should have to realize that every single school has players working equally as hard in the offseason, if not harder.
 
Millhouse said:
I said, "Most people..." "Most people" is not "everyone"
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So if most people know something being pointed out, it shouldn't be posted. Got it.
 
rrlbees said:
So if most people know something being pointed out, it shouldn't be posted. Got it.
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well, it does get real annoying having to spell everything back out for the 1 or 2 morons who jump into a thread and dont read the 1st 2 pages or have read the board AT ALL in the last month or so.

or in this case, the last 10 years.
 
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rrlbees said:
So if most people know something being pointed out, it shouldn't be posted. Got it.
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i'm all for any posts saying that the marrone was a bozo.
 
Chip said:
In an alternative universe, there's a certain irony that each of those 3 were originally identified and sold on SU by the Greg Robinson staff.

All other things being equal, the QB, LT, WR would have a fairly significant impact on the success of the offense, wouldn't you think?
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Really? Who knew?

Doesn't explain 17 to 113.

The current roster on the offensive side is improved athletically from where it was three years ago. Were those three better players, without a doubt, four year players with a lot of snaps and quality coaching.

My comments are limited to physical talent. Team speed, size, raw ability are better across the board. Are they better coached, used properly, put in positions to succeed? The last two years no. We will see what happens this year.
 
Comparing 2012 to 2014, as Bees did above -- might not be the most relevant.
Compare 2011, which ended with 5 losses in a row, leaving everyone in the dumps. Nassib wasn't much use, Hackett was over his head, Marrone wasn't the savior, and so forth. And then, surprise, Nassib, Pugh, Smith, Lemon & Sales put it together.
Can't say that Hunt, Foy, McFarlane, Ishmael & Estime (or Enoicy or Broyld) are going to emerge in the same way. But for what it is worth there were plenty of doubters at this point in 2012.
 
SoBristol said:
Comparing 2012 to 2014, as Bees did above -- might not be the most relevant.
Compare 2011, which ended with 5 losses in a row, leaving everyone in the dumps. Nassib wasn't much use, Hackett was over his head, Marrone wasn't the savior, and so forth. And then, surprise, Nassib, Pugh, Smith, Lemon & Sales put it together.
Can't say that Hunt, Foy, McFarlane, Ishmael & Estime (or Enoicy or Broyld) are going to emerge in the same way. But for what it is worth there were plenty of doubters at this point in 2012.
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I will add this to the play of the offfense, I've never seen a more basic set. They didn't even send a man in motion that I remember. The running plays were often destroyed but you could tell the defense knew what was coming. I think there has been way to much despair for a controlled meaningless scrimmage. Hunt threw the ball poorly in the 7v7s and that is a concern but not when you consider that he is not even 100 % back from injury. I sure as hell am not predicting great things for the offense based on a the scrimmage, but I certainly am not in going the other way either. You can be optimistic without going Rutgers Al here
 
storange said:
I will add this to the play of the offfense, I've never seen a more basic set. They didn't even send a man in motion that I remember. The running plays were often destroyed but you could tell the defense knew what was coming. I think there has been way to much despair for a controlled meaningless scrimmage. Hunt threw the ball poorly in the 7v7s and that is a concern but not when you consider that he is not even 100 % back from injury. I sure as hell am not predicting great things for the offense based on a the scrimmage, but I certainly am not in going the other way either. You can be optimistic without going Rutgers Al here
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You are talking about the offense now and the potential for the 2015 season with Lester's system / new personnel. I am talking about the offense last year, and the lack of playmaking / talent that was clearly evident.

Its fine to be optimistic and expect big things, but you can't dispute that the offense last year was as below average as below average could possibly be. Historically bad. You're arguing a completely different thing than what's being discussed.
 
RF2044 said:
You are talking about the offense now and the potential for the 2015 season with Lester's system / new personnel. I am talking about the offense last year, and the lack of playmaking / talent that was clearly evident.

Its fine to be optimistic and expect big things, but you can't dispute that the offense last year was as below average as below average could possibly be. Historically bad. You're arguing a completely different thing than what's being discussed.
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No the original thread was about this team and i already addressed problems from last year
 
storange said:
No the original thread was about this team and i already addressed problems from last year
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Oy vey...

I know it was. Many posters in this thread--including myself--questioned the premise of the OP. You responded to one of my posts critiquing that I wasn't a hardcore fan, and then talked about what the new offense will look like and why its cause for optimism. Optimism is great. But it has very little to do with the observation I was making about last year's skilled offensive talent being decidedly subpar and lacking production.

I'm all in favor of being optimistic about what the future brings. But I've been burned numerous times post-McNabb on inflated QB expectations. And I expected a lot more from Hunt, West, and many others last year. So you'll forgive me for being a little skeptical and wanting to see how they perform on the field before changing my opinion that they are going to somehow magically flip a switch and be dynamic playmakers. Would love it to happen, but I'm skeptical given last year's season long pervasive problems. We have a LONG way to go before we even can be considered an average offense. Last year's scoring dearth was unbelievably bad--I'm not sure that some fully appreciate the historic level of futility we "produced."
 
I'll say it again, if the offense (playcalling and players) looked explosive and far improved from last year, then the same people who are saying there is nothing to take from the spring game would be saying how much we can look forward to because of what we saw in the spring game.
 
after 2 years we have more questions than answers about hcss -

the total ineptitude at all offensive production is either scary to you because it should be- or you refuse to believe it happened and sniff fabric softeners in your moms basement-

and the injury excuse dont hold water - watched a wr play qb after 3 guys went down- i think he put up 25-30 points-
 
What were people saying after the spring game last year?
 
GoHamSU said:
What were people saying after the spring game last year?
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Boy we love bubble screens!!
 
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