What keeps this offense from being at least average?

[IthacaBarrel]

IMO, it is inconsistent o line play or poor play whether it be running or passing the ball and nassib's inability to complete the mid range to longer passes when they are open

The scheme and coaching will prohibit the offense from ever being really really good in college. Top 20 good

 

[SoBristol]

For improvement, you might start with a new R-OT, maybe a bigger C, and another playmaker to pair with Bailey. Graham showed something last night; maybe his role should expand?
Time to work in Lou Alexander?

 

[AZOrange]

IMO, it is inconsistent o line play or poor play whether it be running or passing the ball and nassib's inability to complete the mid range to longer passes when they are open

The scheme and coaching will prohibit the offense from ever being really really good in college. Top 20 good

Without a doubt, it is the offensive line. After years of following and playing I cannot remember seeing a worse line (especially from a pass protect standpoint). That bleeds into Nassib's problems and our running back issues. It all starts up front. The o-line is horrible.

 

[orange03]

It all starts with the OL. There's high school teams with more talent across the line than we have. That said, we need to upgrade basically every position. A better OL would make the rest of the offense look a lot better, but we still need to get more skilled across the board.

 

[SWC75]

This line is way better than the G-Rob lines. But Chibane is poor and Hay undisciplined. A bigger issue is that we are a passing team trying to be a running team and the conservatism shown in ncertian spots as described in other posts.

 

[RF2044]

Without a doubt, it is the offensive line. After years of following and playing I cannot remember seeing a worse line (especially from a pass protect standpoint). That bleeds into Nassib's problems and our running back issues. It all starts up front. The o-line is horrible.

Completely agree. Unfortunately, there is no one magic bullet that will rectify what's wrong with this offense--it isn't just the QB, it isn't just the skill players, and it isn't just the system, and it isn't just the play calling. But these are all symptoms of the actual problem: our OL's execution is so poor, we don't pass block OR run block effectively--that's what is holding the offense back more than anything.

And that doesn't mean that the other issues aren't there, but the main one is OL.

 

[Millhouse]

Completely agree. Unfortunately, there is no one magic bullet that will rectify what's wrong with this offense--it isn't just the QB, it isn't just the skill players, and it isn't just the system, and it isn't just the play calling. But these are all symptoms of the actual problem: our OL's execution is so poor, we don't pass block OR run block effectively--that's what is holding the offense back more than anything.

And that doesn't mean that the other issues aren't there, but the main one is OL.

great qbs are the closest things to magic bullets in any position in any sport. masks lots of o line problems. i'm very fitzcentric i can't help myself but that guy has made a bunch of scrubs look functional

 

[SUSScuse]

Completely agree. Unfortunately, there is no one magic bullet that will rectify what's wrong with this offense--it isn't just the QB, it isn't just the skill players, and it isn't just the system, and it isn't just the play calling. But these are all symptoms of the actual problem: our OL's execution is so poor, we don't pass block OR run block effectively--that's what is holding the offense back more than anything.

And that doesn't mean that the other issues aren't there, but the main one is OL.

I expected better play from the line this season. They play well in spots. it's hard to tell if they are opening holes for the running game and the back is missing the opportunity or the hole isn't there. Sometimes the back makes the wrong read and the play ends up a loss. On pass plays Nassib makes the read and might hold the ball a split second too long and ends up rushing his throw. Other times watching Nassib, he reads the receiver and throws the ball prior to the receiver making his turn and the ball ends up incomplete.
Bad read or wrong route. either way the line has to block for the QB. They aren't doing it with any consistency

 

[jkmac]

I agree Ithacabarrel. Defensive Coordinators salivate at the thought of facing our offense. The easiest scheme to stop in college football. The playcalling has no idea how to set up a defense. The staff needs to go back and watch the 09 Rutgers and Uconn game

 

[RoysRunts]

Chibane and Hay are frustrating, But to say some High School Teams have better lines that's reaching.

 

[qdawgg]

Chibane and Hay are frustrating, But to say some High School Teams have better lines that's reaching.

That's typical board talk after a game.

 

[qdawgg]

The line has done a decent job run blocking lately, many plays they are pushing the guys right off the line. Pass blocking, I have no idea. It seems each week there is a different weak spot then the week before. It probably doesn't help that Nassib looked like Paulus yesterday.

 

[phil77]

I think it is the QB. I see way too many missed chances down the field. If our QB play was better I think we would be an above average offensive football team. I just am very unimpressed with our QB play. Why many people will just point to the O-Line (which I think is the easy out here) I have seen too many missed chances down the field to put all the blame on the O-Line.

 

[MadNY3]

No way this line is worse than Grob's first couple years. Ask Amdrew Robinson who was sacked 50+ times in one of them.

Underachieving, yes, but not the worst in recent memory.

 

[orange03]

Chibane and Hay are frustrating, But to say some High School Teams have better lines that's reaching.

Obviously being sarcastic...kind of

But I think you get my point. Until the line play improves, the offense as a whole will suffer.

 

[domestu]

People can focus on the offensive line but when you recruit players with average talent at the skill positions your offensive performance is going to be inconsistant. This isn't going to change until we start having more talented playmakers at the skill positions.

 

[RF2044]

great qbs are the closest things to magic bullets in any position in any sport. masks lots of o line problems. i'm very fitzcentric i can't help myself but that guy has made a bunch of scrubs look functional

That's true to an extent. OL has been historically a position of relative weakness for SU forever. If you ever watch old SU games from the McNabb era, it is amazing how many times protection would break down, but he'd bounce out of the pocket or make guys miss and then make a play. I think that to the casual observer, it might not even be obvious that there was a OL breakdown 90% of the time because McNabb was so smooth.

But on the flipside, even great QBs can struggle when the line doesn't protect or give them time to throw. I'm convinced that a lot of the play calling issues that frustrate us are due to the coaches being limited by what OL limitations, and compensating with quicker passing that gets the ball out before the pass rush gets to the QB, but teams are scheming to take that away. Bring heat and take away slants, and you've shut down the passing game.

I also think that the OL is what's holding back the running game--not the RBs. Yes, we need better talent in the pipeline, but Antwon Bailey is good enough to be a terrific back at this level. Put Bailey behind the Michigan OL that Mike Hart had, and I bet he'd be just as good of a player. Put Mike Hart on this team, and he'd struggle.

I don't expect SU to suddenly morph into Michigan [or BC, for that matter] and start cranking out OL NFL draft picks every year, but something needs to improve. With Marrone's background as an OL coach, I was expecting him to be able to coach up the talent on hand, and make SU an appealing / attractive destination for higher rated OL recruits. So far, there isn't much evidence of the talent on hand being coached up.

 

[RF2044]

People can focus on the offensive line but when you recruit players with average talent at the skill positions your offensive performance is going to be inconsistant. This isn't going to change until we start having more talented playmakers at the skill positions.

I don't think that any poster here would argue that we need better talent at the skill positions. That absolutely needs to happen through recruiting.

But focusing on the skill players is like being preoccupied with symptoms instead of the actual problem. Average talent can more than get the job done behind an OL that executes properly, while the most talented skilled players might struggle to make plays behind a sieve. Obviously, average talent doesn't get you Oklahoma State's offense, but it would be better than what we're subjected to now and a huge step in the right direction. And once we continue to win, continue to bowl, and continue to demonstrate year-over-year of sustained success, hopefully the recruiting will continue to get better and better, thereby addressing the skilled talent issue.

I'd like to think that Kinder, Hunt, or Broyld is going to be the QB that we've been hoping for for more than a decade [fingers crossed]. And I like the young talent we've infused the pipeline with at WR [Hale, Kobena, Foster, West, etc.]. But instead of waiting for some 5-star blue chipper choosing to take his talents to CNY, more immediate gains for improved offensive play can be realized by fielding a competent OL that can actually pass and run block.

 

[qdawgg]

Granted Hay couldn't hold his own yesterday, Nassib still terribly missed many many throws. Too long, at their feet, behind them, rockets over their heads. I thought it was one of the worst games I've seen him play if not the worst.

I hope something is going on medically causing this because otherwise he has gotten worse over the last 2 days.

 

[qdawgg]

Why are those things mutually exclusive? I don't think that any poster here would argue that we need better talent at the skill positions. That absolutely needs to happen through recruiting.

But focusing on the skill players is like being preoccupied with symptoms instead of the actual problem--and in my mind is a cop out. Average talent can more than get the job done behind an OL that executes properly, while the most talented skilled players might struggle to make plays behind a sieve.

You could easily argue the opposite is true as well - which leads to the fact that neither is right or wrong. Paulus was able to make plays with Mike Williams despite a terrible O-Line.

 

[CIL]

This is an easy one...consistency. I don't think it's a function of less talent, poorer coaching, etc. The issue we are faced with is the kids out there are not there yet. Chew, who has great hands, dropped an easy one on a crucial third down (saved by the roughing the passer call). Nassib makes some nice throws then misses wide open targets. We have rb's missing cut back lanes and OL blowing easy blocks. This offense has the potential right now to move the ball against anyone on our schedule.

Wake Forest is a good team, and these kids moved it well in the last quarter and a half. It appears to me as if the effort ebbs and flows out there.

If you are looking for a more detailed answer - probably need to upgrade our skill level at WR. Everyone is playing man press with a high safety daring us to throw deep or have our kids beat them. Here's ways you counter that - upgrade WR, have a qb that is a threat to run so it forces more zone - we don't have those rigt now.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

This is an easy one...consistency. I don't think it's a function of less talent, poorer coaching, etc. The issue we are faced with is the kids out there are not there yet. Chew, who has great hands, dropped an easy one on a crucial third down (saved by the roughing the passer call). Nassib makes some nice throws then misses wide open targets. We have rb's missing cut back lanes and OL blowing easy blocks. This offense has the potential right now to move the ball against anyone on our schedule.


Nassib appears to be able to run better than many think. They need that element

Wake Forest is a good team, and these kids moved it well in the last quarter and a half. It appears to me as if the effort ebbs and flows out there.

If you are looking for a more detailed answer - probably need to upgrade our skill level at WR. Everyone is playing man press with a high safety daring us to throw deep or have our kids beat them. Here's ways you counter that - upgrade WR, have a qb that is a threat to run so it forces more zone - we don't have those rigt now.

 

[AZOrange]

The line has done a decent job run blocking lately, many plays they are pushing the guys right off the line. Pass blocking, I have no idea. It seems each week there is a different weak spot then the week before. It probably doesn't help that Nassib looked like Paulus yesterday.

The pass blocking is completely unacceptable at every level. The tackles get beat to the outside upfield rush. The guards are oblivious to stunts and often end up on a double that doesnt need one, and the center gets pushed into Nassib's grill every play, in addition to the fact that none of the backs have shown even an ounce of ability to properly chip a blitzer. Of all of those the Center is the worst, the pressure up the middle is killer, the defense doesnt even have to worry about the play action.

 

[AZOrange]

If you are looking for a more detailed answer - probably need to upgrade our skill level at WR. Everyone is playing man press with a high safety daring us to throw deep or have our kids beat them. Here's ways you counter that - upgrade WR, have a qb that is a threat to run so it forces more zone - we don't have those rigt now.

I do agree with you here CIL, however I was focusing my gripe less on a talent issue and more on a technique/scheme issue. You can mold good linemen through technique/scheme...and Cuse seems to have done very little of that.

On a talent basis, I think the WRs are the least talented group. Watching them trying to shed and get off the line is pretty frustrating (and it slows everything down for Nassib). The cornerbacks are also really bad (but I think it is not as much talent as technique/scheme).