Wildhack speaks...

[Day2]

He also knew how hard a job it was going to be to get SU into the upper tier of the ACC.

He made a business decision. He has six years (and a lot of money) to make UW competitive in the PAC12.

Good points. If we win one more game this year, the Pac-12 is probably looking at only three teams in the tournament. That conference is top heavy and UCLA might go right back to being mediocre after this season. You have a better chance at becoming the third-best team in the Pac-12 than finishing in the top half of the conference in the ACC.

 

[OrangePA]

It seems that the University made its mistake three years ago.

It was at that point that Coach B should have been separated in a politically comfortable way.

Coach Hopkins would have been prepared to take the position and move the program forward.

Now, there is no plan. And there is no certainty. And we have a great coach who is 73 years old and perhaps now viewed as bigger than the University - and that is always a problem in my opinion.

Now, there is no candidate for the position - some kind of search will be required at some point - and the guy most agreed was best equipped to bring about the transition is gone.

It would have been a bit uncomfortable, but it seems reasonable to conclude that the University should have bitten the bullet three years ago.

 

[CusefanATL]

So... He knew during the final game...

And Wildhack called Boeheim to tell him? How is it possible to not tell him after 30 years together?

 

[OrangeFoo]

Yeah, 6 years gives him time to turn things around at UW and he doesn't to worry about winning right away.
Can you imagine how many would be calling for his head if his win/loss record the first year or two at SU were worse than this years?

You don't need to imagine and neither does Hopkins... he can just remember the criticism he received when he stepped in during JB's suspension. Whomever replaces JB is screwed... just like the dude who replaced Dean Smith, just like all the coaches who have tried to replace Bobby Knight, jut like the guy who tried to Pitino @ Kentucky, just like the guy who tried to replace Keady, just like the guy who tried to replace JT @ Georgetown, just like the guys who have tried to replace sweet Lou @ St. Johns and so on and so forth. A good rule of thumb seems to be any time you are replacing a legend you might want to rent and not own. A few exceptions... Bill Self, Kevin Ollie, Jay Wright (Did he directly replace Rollie?),

 

[JDubbin]

It seems that the University made its mistake three years ago.

It was at that point that Coach B should have been separated in a politically comfortable way.

Coach Hopkins would have been prepared to take the position and move the program forward.

Now, there is no plan. And there is no certainty. And we have a great coach who is 73 years old and perhaps now viewed as bigger than the University - and that is always a problem in my opinion.

Now, there is no candidate for the position - some kind of search will be required at some point - and the guy most agreed was best equipped to bring about the transition is gone.

It would have been a bit uncomfortable, but it seems reasonable to conclude that the University should have bitten the bullet three years ago.

So you don't think it's a good idea that once Boeheim retires that Syracuse will do a national search for a new coach, but would rather be locked into a coach-in-waiting with basically no experience?

 

[Townie72]

Good points. If we win one more game this year, the Pac-12 is probably looking at only three teams in the tournament. That conference is top heavy and UCLA might go right back to being mediocre after this season. You have a better chance at becoming the third-best team in the Pac-12 than finishing in the top half of the conference in the ACC.

Of course;

If given a choice between:

1. An accomplishable task with a higher paycheck and a longer contract

or

2. A more difficult task with a shorter contract and less money

Which do you take?

Hop had zero leverage here on a salary. What was he going to do, not take what they offered?

 

[Day2]

It seems that the University made its mistake three years ago.

It was at that point that Coach B should have been separated in a politically comfortable way.

Coach Hopkins would have been prepared to take the position and move the program forward.

Now, there is no plan. And there is no certainty. And we have a great coach who is 73 years old and perhaps now viewed as bigger than the University - and that is always a problem in my opinion.

Now, there is no candidate for the position - some kind of search will be required at some point - and the guy most agreed was best equipped to bring about the transition is gone.

It would have been a bit uncomfortable, but it seems reasonable to conclude that the University should have bitten the bullet three years ago.

Doesn't seem that way to me at all.

 

[Townie72]

It seems that the University made its mistake three years ago.

It was at that point that Coach B should have been separated in a politically comfortable way.

Coach Hopkins would have been prepared to take the position and move the program forward.

Now, there is no plan. And there is no certainty. And we have a great coach who is 73 years old and perhaps now viewed as bigger than the University - and that is always a problem in my opinion.

Now, there is no candidate for the position - some kind of search will be required at some point - and the guy most agreed was best equipped to bring about the transition is gone.

It would have been a bit uncomfortable, but it seems reasonable to conclude that the University should have bitten the bullet three years ago.

The assumption underlying your argument is that there would be no significant drop-off in the program if Hop took over at any point. I'm not sure the University hierarchy saw it that way. They would always want JB versus Hop. Hop was going to take over the program because JB was going to retire.

 

[Orangello]

 

[Waltdods]

Hop knew what the UW contract was (6 years, Big $). He might have also known what the SU contract might be (Yrs and $). He also knew how hard a job it was going to be to get SU into the upper tier of the ACC.

He made a business decision. He has six years (and a lot of money) to make UW competitive in the PAC12.

Maybe he looked at the 6,000 people in the stands at the first NIT game and said, "There's going to be no satisfying these morons."

This is certainly the version of events that looks best for Boeheim. I confess to finding it extremely hard to believe that a guy who has waited for 20 years would give up a year before he was going to get what he waited for. It seems extreeemely unlikely.

The arguments that the UW job are better have some surface plausibility, but I don't think they hold up.

UW may pay more (though I'm not sure this is true - Romar was apparently making $1.7 million, which is not astronomical for a P5 coach). The job may have less pressure, though it is possible to overstate this, too - they just fired a coach who had the top recruit in the country lined up to come next year. And it may be easier to succeed there than Syracuse, though I don't know what the basis for thinking that would be - Washington has had a lot of coaches, none of whom have succeeded. Washington has been to 12 NCAA tournaments since 1953 - half of them under Romar, who they just fired. Syracuse has been to 12 NCAA tournaments since 2001.

And the idea that the fan support Syracuse gets compares negatively to - well, anyone, let alone Washington, is nuts. I guarantee those 6000 fans at the Dome at 11 a.m. on a Saturday at the end of a disappointing season are thousands more fans than UW would get in comparable circumstances.

 

[Quazzum69]

Weaker conference, more guaranteed money, less pressure to match predecessor, and the big elephant in the room...

What if Syracuse isn't really an attractive program? People are assuming that Syracuse is a better job than Washington. But is it?

 

[OrangePA]

So you don't think it's a good idea that once Boeheim retires that Syracuse will do a national search for a new coach, but would rather be locked into a coach-in-waiting with basically no experience?

I can't predict the future. And that's part of the equation for me.

I guess I don't discount Hopkins' experience in the way you do.

I would have been very comfortable with him at the helm.

 

[OrangePA]

The assumption underlying your argument is that there would be no significant drop-off in the program if Hop took over at any point. I'm not sure the University hierarchy saw it that way. They would always want JB versus Hop. Hop was going to take over the program because JB was going to retire.

It does seem that the University preferred no change in leadership at this time.

Just as it did three years ago.

So in 3-5 years it will have to return to the decision it had three years ago - this time without the Hop option.

And that I think is the mistake

 

[Townie72]

It does seem that the University preferred no change in leadership at this time.

Just as it did three years ago.

So in 3-5 years it will have to return to the decision it had three years ago - this time without the Hop option.

And that I think is the mistake

Why?

Because anyone is better than Boeheim?

Because Hop would have been better than Boeheim?

Because you believe that this new, hot coach would have been an upgrade?

My thought is that any year we have JB coaching is a benefit. And we will have better results with him at the helm then any other alternative. And that's the conclusion Wildhack came to.

 

[PeteCalvin]

You don't need to imagine and neither does Hopkins... he can just remember the criticism he received when he stepped in during JB's suspension. Whomever replaces JB is screwed... just like the dude who replaced Dean Smith, just like all the coaches who have tried to replace Bobby Knight, jut like the guy who tried to Pitino @ Kentucky, just like the guy who tried to replace Keady, just like the guy who tried to replace JT @ Georgetown, just like the guys who have tried to replace sweet Lou @ St. Johns and so on and so forth. A good rule of thumb seems to be any time you are replacing a legend you might want to rent and not own. A few exceptions... Bill Self, Kevin Ollie, Jay Wright (Did he directly replace Rollie?),

Steve Lappas took over for Rollie at Nova.

 

[PoppyHart]

Hop can't get (or turns down in a couple cases) a good job in 10 years, but when the best of the bunch opens up (Wash>USC, Oregon State, Charlotte) he's offered 6 years w/in 72 hours?

 

[OrangePA]

Why?

Because anyone is better than Boeheim?

Because Hop would have been better than Boeheim?

Because you believe that this new, hot coach would have been an upgrade?

My thought is that any year we have JB coaching is a benefit. And we will have better results with him at the helm then any other alternative. And that's the conclusion Wildhack came to.

Because with Hop you had the chance for a seemless transition with a guy who has recruited/coached many if not most of our present roster.

After conducting a national search UW gave Hop a six year deal at $2-3 million per year.

That would seem to confirm that he has a lot to offer - at least according to an objective PAC-12 athletic program.

That option no longer exists.

The rest of the calculus is "chicken or the egg" analysis that we could debate for a long time.

 

[Zcuse]

It does seem that the University preferred no change in leadership at this time.

Just as it did three years ago.

So in 3-5 years it will have to return to the decision it had three years ago - this time without the Hop option.

And that I think is the mistake

Why would Syracuse not have the "Hop" option in 3-5 years?

This could very easily be the best thing for Cuse. Hop gets experience actually running a power 5 conference team, in a new recruiting area, and could choose to... wait for it... return to his beloved alma mater to coach for the rest of his career. Roy Williams did it. Alford might be about to do it.

I don't get all the odd negativity. Boeheim has been an unbelievable gift to Syracuse for half a century. I too am of the opinion that Hop knew his lifelong mentor had gas in the tank, and a desire to still coach. He did not want to push this hall of famer out before he was really "ready." Hop took the high road and rightly took a great job for big $. A legend gets to continue what he was put on this earth to do.

On the other side, what if Cuse continued the downward trend (going from NCAA bubble fretting to fretting whether we break .500). You would not have thought it could happen to Crum, but it did. Would we want anyone associated with the program to take over? Then we could have egg on our face for not honoring Hop agreement.

Hopefully, in 3-5 successful years, we get a seasoned Hop. Or maybe Autry blossoms as the #2. Or we hire one of the best up and comer outsiders. I for one would love to see if Hop can make it work in the top job on another school's dime and time.

In any event...A highly profitable ACC school, who averages the top 3 crowds in nation, with best in class facilities, with iconic home court, with multiple final fours and a national championship in the last 25 years, will NOT have a problem attracting a great option to head the team when they need to look for one.

Hopefully that will be after the competitive old boy gives us a couple more great tourney runs...

 

[CaptainJ]

Maybe he looked at the 6,000 people in the stands at the first NIT game and said, "There's going to be no satisfying these morons."

My favorite post of the week so far! One of the most original takes on here, and I think it's worth consideration. Heaven forbid the pathetic fans ever take any responsibility for anything. Seems to be easier to always point fingers elsewhere.

 

[CaptainJ]

Why would Syracuse not have the "Hop" option in 3-5 years?

This could very easily be the best thing for Cuse. Hop gets experience actually running a power 5 conference team, in a new recruiting area, and could choose to... wait for it... return to his beloved alma mater to coach for the rest of his career. Roy Williams did it. Alford might be about to do it.

I don't get all the odd negativity. Boeheim has been an unbelievable gift to Syracuse for half a century. I too am of the opinion that Hop knew his lifelong mentor had gas in the tank, and a desire to still coach. He did not want to push this hall of famer out before he was really "ready." Hop took the high road and rightly took a great job for big $. A legend gets to continue what he was put on this earth to do.

On the other side, what if Cuse continued the downward trend (going from NCAA bubble fretting to fretting whether we break .500). You would not have thought it could happen to Crum, but it did. Would we want anyone associated with the program to take over? Then we could have egg on our face for not honoring Hop agreement.

Hopefully, in 3-5 successful years, we get a seasoned Hop. Or maybe Autry blossoms as the #2. Or we hire one of the best up and comer outsiders. I for one would love to see if Hop can make it work in the top job on another school's dime and time.

In any event...A highly profitable ACC school, who averages the top 3 crowds in nation, with best in class facilities, with iconic home court, with multiple final fours and a national championship in the last 25 years, will NOT have a problem attracting a great option to head the team when they need to look for one.

Hopefully that will be after the competitive old boy gives us a couple more great tourney runs...

I love this post too. Roy Williams is a brilliant example of what Hop's situation could potentially look like. Of course, if he can become that good, there's a chance he may choose to stay put. I wouldn't hold it against him. Either way, this situation has a lot of potential for all parties involved, including the fans. I may have been a little harsh on the fans by agreeing with Townie in my last post, but when I saw what he said, it was hit it out of the park funny. CNY has some great residents, many of whom are SU fans. This is like a college and pro team rolled into one for them, and theyre allowed some down years/trends just like JB and the team are. I wonder what the impact may be on the "silent"(non-bulletin board) fans will be? Heck, I wonder how this will effect JB!?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I love a good conspiracy theory but something sounds really odd with all of this.

Hop escentially chose Washington over Syracuse and that doesn't make any sense to me at all.

It's 1000% the best decision he could have made.

 

[heresjohnny88]

I've posted on here before about Wildhack - worked with him at ESPN for years.

I have 100000% trust in him going forward. I really do. He's not going to let this program suffer the way fans think it will.

We will be fine.

 

[Townie72]

I've posted on here before about Wildhack - worked with him at ESPN for years.

I have 100000% trust in him going forward. I really do. He's not going to let this program suffer the way fans think it will.

We will be fine.

Of course Wildhack will do the best possible job.

But this is a difficult task with a lot of moving parts. If this were a diving meet, I'd put the difficulty level at 9.0 or 10.0.

Just maintaining the program at the level it has been over just the last ten years is going to be difficult because there is greater parity in the sport and because there are more and improved competitors.

When a school like Villanova can win the NC, it means that lots and lots can also. You don't have to be huge. You don't have to be rich. You don't have to have low admissions standards or offer athlete-friendly to reap the tremendous benefits. And there are lots and lots of good players and if you can't find them in the U.S, you can look overseas.

 

[heresjohnny88]

Of course Wildhack will do the best possible job.

But this is a difficult task with a lot of moving parts. If this were a diving meet, I'd put the difficulty level at 9.0 or 10.0.

Just maintaining the program at the level it has been over just the last ten years is going to be difficult because there is greater parity in the sport and because there are more and improved competitors.

When a school like Villanova can win the NC, it means that lots and lots can also. You don't have to be huge. You don't have to be rich. You don't have to have low admissions standards or offer athlete-friendly to reap the tremendous benefits. And there are lots and lots of good players and if you can't find them in the U.S, you can look overseas.

Totally agree. Very difficult job, for sure.

 

[orangecuse]

I've posted on here before about Wildhack - worked with him at ESPN for years.

I have 100000% trust in him going forward. I really do. He's not going to let this program suffer the way fans think it will.

We will be fine.

As most things do, it comes down to level of commitment made. If SU and its powers that be stay proactive vs. reactive, the program should sustain its relative level of success. Continued reinvestment into the infrastructure is critical, from dome renovation, other student rec. facilities/living quarters, payment of key athletic personnel, etc. A can do approach and vision to make it happen vs. can't.

Lack of forward thinking and vision is what really commenced the downward trend/fall of the football program. The only game in town, get a life mentality. We can't do field turf in the dome because...enter new admin and, ta-da, new field turf. Getting behind the eight ball in many of the facilities while our competitors were investing in them. Marrone wanting to move quicker on the IPF, nope. Marrone gone, IPF suddenly gets moved to the front burner, etc., etc.

When JB leaves, it won't be the end of the world as long as the admin and power that be do its part. Brad Stevens leaving Butler to the NBA and Celtics, hasn't impacted Butler too much. They still are quite relevant, ranked in the Top 20 most of the year and in the Sweet 16. Northwestern had never made the dance prior to this year. If the right hire is made, and SU keeps the commitment at a high level, it can maintain an acceptable level of success.