Wins and losses...don't get your panties in a bunch

[Aweart23]

Because I'm bored and have no life. Here are a few examples of Win/Loss records first three years at a program.

Doug Marrone- 17-20-

Mack Brown- 8-24- North Carolina- 1988-1990 - was 7-4 in year 4
Art Briles- 15-22- current HC at Baylor- he sucked twice in the first three years on the job- He was 16-20 first three years at Houston
Jim Harbaugh- 17-20- Stanford- went 12-1 in year 4 and then bailed
Nick Saban- 19-16- Michigan State- went 6-6 in year 4
Mark Dantonio- 18-17- Cincinnati- left for Michigan State in year 4
Barry Alverez- 11-22- Wisconsin- 1990-1992- was 1-10 in year 1
Kirk Ferentz- 11-24- Iowa- 11-2 year 4
Tom O’Brien- 16-18 BC- 1997-1999- 8 straight bowl games starting in year 3
Mark Mangino- 12-24 - Kansas- meh- who cares
Frank Beamer- 11-21- Virginia Tech
Bill Snyder- 13-20- K-State first time around
Coach Mac- 6-20
Coach K- 38-47- Can you imagine Coach K as our DC- he would instruct our DBs to flop as the WR's hit them- we would lead college football in drawing Offensive Pass Interference calls
Howard Schnellenberger- 8-24 at Louisville-OK Shi^^y example -

Years 4 and 5 are going to be interesting..And yes wins and losses mean something, just think you need a bit more time to judge...Hammer away

 

[Noexcuse]

I think there is some truth to this. Mac went 5-6 in 1986 after going 6-5 and gaining a Cherry Bowl invite in 1985 (sounds familiar no?). But the difference is the total collapse this team experienced while Mac's 1986 team came on strong at the end of that season. Most people are down now because this year's team really didn't give us much to hang our hopes on for next year.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Most of those guys were/are pretty good recruiters though... They also have a system in place that they are building around, all those coaches have an identity as do their teams. My issue is the recruiting and the fact that Marrone is trying to white knuckle victories as opposed to building a foundation with younger talent, or is that talent just not there?

 

[Orangello]

I have no problem pointing to other coaches situations where the first three years didn;t turn out so great but they later had success. The problem I have again is the blind faith approach that things are going to magically turn themselves around next year. Why have we not seen coaching changes especially on the offensive side and on ST's ? Other teams that struggled this year are firing and hiring coaches left and right but we have done nothing. Stay the course is a strategy usually employed by bad managers who lack the vision to make the hard but necessary choices to succeed. I am not one to advocate change for change's sake but I am somewhat incredulous not a single thing has been done with the staff to date.

 

[Townie72]

Patience. Patience. Patience.

Having lived through the 1970's with the Orange has taught me that these rebuilding projects take a long time and are characterized by ups and downs.

Firing lower level managers --- just to show activity --- is what you do when you don't have a clue.

 

[Noexcuse]

I have no problem pointing to other coaches situations where the first three years didn;t turn out so great but they later had success. The problem I have again is the blind faith approach that things are going to magically turn themselves around next year. Why have we not seen coaching changes especially on the offensive side and on ST's ? Other teams that struggled this year are firing and hiring coaches left and right but we have done nothing. Stay the course is a strategy usually employed by bad managers who lack the vision to make the hard but necessary choices to succeed. I am not one to advocate change for change's sake but I am somewhat incredulous not a single thing has been done with the staff to date.

Yeah, seems a little strange that no changes have been announced yet, especially the way DM was quick to jettison guys his first 2 years and the fact that some of this staff is not exactly burning it up on the recruiting trail.

 

[Orangello]

[quote: Firing lower level managers --- just to show activity --- is what you do when you don't have a clue.[/quote]

Doing nothing in the face of failure is what you do when you are clueless AND have no idea how to fix a problem.

 

[Aweart23]

Most of those guys were/are pretty good recruiters though... They also have a system in place that they are building around, all those coaches have an identity as do their teams. My issue is the recruiting and the fact that Marrone is trying to white knuckle victories as opposed to building a foundation with younger talent, or is that talent just not there?

Looking back on it, yes they have proven to be good recruiters, but some of those guys had no track record coming in.

Saban, although he bounced around CFB for a while as an asst and was successful as a HC at Toledo, was coming from the pros. Alverez, was his first HC gig. Ferentz was coming from the pros and was really bad in his first HC job at Maine. Tom O'Brien, first HC job...Mark Dantonio, first HC job...

Mack Brown was 11-23 at Tulane before UNC hired him...and 6-5 at App State before that..

 

[Townie72]

[quote: Firing lower level managers --- just to show activity --- is what you do when you don't have a clue.

Doing nothing in the face of failure is what you do when you are clueless AND have no idea how to fix a problem.[/quote]

 

[Townie72]

Sounds like "Do something, even if its wrong"

Try having some patience. This is going to take several more years.

 

[dollarbill44]

My issue is the recruiting and the fact that Marrone is trying to white knuckle victories as opposed to building a foundation with younger talent, or is that talent just not there?

I don't think you can back this up with evidence yet. A great deal of this year's defense was very young and there is youth interspersed throughout on offense. The only place we really didn't have youth was the O-line and at QB (where you may want to have a fifth year guy coming back). I feel there were some signs for encouragement from the FR and SOs that played.

For me, the jury is still out on the talent level of our underclassmen. However, I would have liked to see one of the young QBs get some actual game reps at some point.

 

[Orangello]

Sounds like "Do something, even if its wrong"

Try having some patience. This is going to take several more years.

Try re-reading my post:

I have no problem pointing to other coaches situations where the first three years didn;t turn out so great but they later had success. The problem I have again is the blind faith approach that things are going to magically turn themselves around next year. Why have we not seen coaching changes especially on the offensive side and on ST's ? Other teams that struggled this year are firing and hiring coaches left and right but we have done nothing. Stay the course is a strategy usually employed by bad managers who lack the vision to make the hard but necessary choices to succeed. I am not one to advocate change for change's sake but I am somewhat incredulous not a single thing has been done with the staff to date.​

 

[Aweart23]

Try re-reading my post:

I have no problem pointing to other coaches situations where the first three years didn;t turn out so great but they later had success. The problem I have again is the blind faith approach that things are going to magically turn themselves around next year. Why have we not seen coaching changes especially on the offensive side and on ST's ? Other teams that struggled this year are firing and hiring coaches left and right but we have done nothing. Stay the course is a strategy usually employed by bad managers who lack the vision to make the hard but necessary choices to succeed. I am not one to advocate change for change's sake but I am somewhat incredulous not a single thing has been done with the staff to date.​

I'm not suggesting blind faith. I think Grob got one year too many. I think firing a guy like Kragthorpe who was brutal in three years at Louisville was on the mark. If we had not had a winning record and a bowl appearance last year, I'd be much more inclined to say HCDM was on the hot seat...

As for no staff changes, its only been 8 days since the season ended, how do you know that changes are not in the works? Doug's on record about changing special teams and re-looking at the offense...

 

[Noexcuse]

I actually did like the athleticism on D. They looked like they didn't know what they were doing at times but the athleticism was there imo. Experience and depth will play a big part in an improved D going forward.

 

[Noexcuse]

I'm not suggesting blind faith. I think Grob got one year too many. I think firing a guy like Kragthorpe who was brutal in three years at Louisville was on the mark. If we had not had a winning record and a bowl appearance last year, I'd be much more inclined to say HCDM was on the hot seat...

As for no staff changes, its only been 8 days since the season ended, how do you know that changes are not in the works? Doug's on record about changing special teams and re-looking at the offense....

Best news so far this off season.

 

[SoBristol]

The re-look at the offense is more likely something that Doug intends to do himself, in conjunction with Hackett -- not a big change to a new OC.
Similar for specials. Might well be a change of approach and responsibilities within the current staff.

As for recruiting, last year Doug closed with some of the better guys in his class (Trudo, Foy, Eskridge, Broyld among others). If he can pull something similar with his last set of commits, we can feel better about the direction of the program.