12-1

[HoustonCuse]

Pitino's record in the Sweet 16. That is simply unfathomable. Especially in light of how tough of a time we have had in that round. The opponent in that game is absolutely legit about 85% of the time. The guy can coach.

 

[Orangeman]

It's pretty obvious

they typically get a legit seed (Louisville, UK, and I guess Providence) so while playing legit competition they're usually favored…and they play aggressive up-tempo man-to-man defense.

The zone allows both you to compete with superior talent and inferior talent to compete with you.

Outside of KU teams name an elite Louisville scorer that you can think of?

His system works in the NCAA. Really well. Allowing inferior athletes to complete 3 passes for an open three is not a recipe, I'm afraid.

Whatever algorithms Jimmy B was running to reach this 100% zone conclusion have been superseded in my opinion.

Call me names if you wish…I'm not "Igor" I just watch a lot of sports (and basketball in particular).

 

[Orangeman]

Watch how Duke & Louisville press full-court without giving up wide open lay-ups if they don't succeed defensively.

That is a signature failure of our defensive strategy since I've been watching Syracuse basketball in the early 80's. The all-or-nothing press, it's literally terrible. Some call it the trunk monkey.

To me it's not acceptable defensive coaching at all. I'm hoping this period of reflection leads to some changes.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Watch how Duke & Louisville press full-court without giving up wide open lay-ups if they don't succeed defensively.

That is a signature failure of our defensive strategy since I've been watching Syracuse basketball in the early 80's. The all-or-nothing press, it's literally terrible. Some call it the trunk monkey.

To me it's not acceptable defensive coaching at all. I'm hoping this period of reflection leads to some changes.

Can't say I disagree. This "reflection" period I hope brings a few changes in scheme, recruiting, etc. Agree with the OP on Pitino. He's fantastic. I thought NC St would dispose of them rather easily. They have two elite players as well in Rozier/Harrell.

 

[jdubs30]

Pitino's record in the Sweet 16. That is simply unfathomable. Especially in light of how tough of a time we have had in that round. The opponent in that game is absolutely legit about 85% of the time. The guy can coach.

Well the last 2 times we've made it to the Sweet 16 we advanced...Progress!!

 

[Shark58]

Pitino is like Darth Vader

O-Boeheim Wan Kenobi taught him too well

 

[SoBeCuse]

This day in age MOST coaches will switch it up to another D if it's getting torched. We won't...sigh.

 

[Madbiker]

Seems to me that we usually lose games because our offense stinks, not our defense. At least the last few years.

 

[jec1521]

Seems to me that we usually lose games because our offense stinks, not our defense. At least the last few years.

Right. The zone isn't our problem right now. When we have the guys to fit our zone it works great. So maybe since it forces JB to recruit for it, maybe it is our problem... who the hell knows...

 

[SoBeCuse]

Right. The zone isn't our problem right now. When we have the guys to fit our zone it works great. So maybe since it forces JB to recruit for it, maybe it is our problem... who the hell knows...

Agreed. Problems have been mostly on offense with the lack of shooting, playmaking, fundamentals, etc. Still, it's maddening to refuse to change defenses when it is getting torched.

 

[Orangeman]

Seems to me that we usually lose games because our offense stinks, not our defense. At least the last few years.

I'm not sure I agree with this…I would love someone to run the numbers.

I think we're happy with our defense because we used to (90s, whatever) give up 65 and win 72-65. Now we're giving up 55 but scoring 53-57, etc

So we think we're playing better defense and less good offense.

But I think EVERY team probably has similar numbers. The game is much less fluid and over-coached these days, and much less talented than it used to be with every team using 30 on the shot-clock so possessions and overall scoring is way down.

So are we playing better defense? Maybe, but not likely. Sure there are some games where our zone is very active and suffocating, etc…but I'd argue there are more games where some very average player gets "schemed open" against us and goes for an unexpected 20 on wide open jump shots.

And as someone mentioned, we would seemingly right now pass on an extremely talented two-guard who can dribble, shoot and pass just because he's only 6'1" (Russ Smith, Louisville? maybe he's taller, there would be other examples). I say that knowing we've had some great backcourts lately so I'm not naive.

Just an observation, but generally you play zone when you're over-matched on talent or physical ability to alleviate the 1-on-1 matchup pressures. You ratchet up the man-to-man when you have the talent advantage.

Ironically I feel like we've had pretty good teams lately, and overall talent levels are down across college basketball, but we've chosen to go exclusively zone.

Just a debate.

(I will admit I'm a bit more irrational about our press defense….there is NO reason a high-level D1 team has to be that bad at it…shouldn't be break the press-get-a-layup every time. It does concern me that no asst coach has ever nudged the head coach and said something like "I've run the numbers and when we press the opponent gets a layup or foul at the rim 58% of the time while at Louisville its 12% of the time, what are we doing wrong?" Makes you wonder about the systems in place).

Just off-season banter

 

[nnyorange]

Not only is he 12-1 but the average margin of victory in those games is 19.8 points despite being the lower seed 4 times. The guy is automatic in the sweet 16

 

[CusefanATL]

It's pretty obvious

they typically get a legit seed (Louisville, UK, and I guess Providence) so while playing legit competition they're usually favored…and they play aggressive up-tempo man-to-man defense.

The zone allows both you to compete with superior talent and inferior talent to compete with you.

Outside of KU teams name an elite Louisville scorer that you can think of?

His system works in the NCAA. Really well. Allowing inferior athletes to complete 3 passes for an open three is not a recipe, I'm afraid.

Whatever algorithms Jimmy B was running to reach this 100% zone conclusion have been superseded in my opinion.

Call me names if you wish…I'm not "Igor" I just watch a lot of sports (and basketball in particular).

Completely agree

 

[CusefanATL]

Seems to me that we usually lose games because our offense stinks, not our defense. At least the last few years.

The zone allows the other teams to dictate pace - which in turn effects our offense. Think Butler.

 

[Madbiker]

I'm not sure I agree with this…I would love someone to run the numbers.

I think we're happy with our defense because we used to (90s, whatever) give up 65 and win 72-65. Now we're giving up 55 but scoring 53-57, etc

So we think we're playing better defense and less good offense.

But I think EVERY team probably has similar numbers. The game is much less fluid and over-coached these days, and much less talented than it used to be with every team using 30 on the shot-clock so possessions and overall scoring is way down.

So are we playing better defense? Maybe, but not likely. Sure there are some games where our zone is very active and suffocating, etc…but I'd argue there are more games where some very average player gets "schemed open" against us and goes for an unexpected 20 on wide open jump shots.

And as someone mentioned, we would seemingly right now pass on an extremely talented two-guard who can dribble, shoot and pass just because he's only 6'1" (Russ Smith, Louisville? maybe he's taller, there would be other examples). I say that knowing we've had some great backcourts lately so I'm not naive.

Just an observation, but generally you play zone when you're over-matched on talent or physical ability to alleviate the 1-on-1 matchup pressures. You ratchet up the man-to-man when you have the talent advantage.

Ironically I feel like we've had pretty good teams lately, and overall talent levels are down across college basketball, but we've chosen to go exclusively zone.

Just a debate.

(I will admit I'm a bit more irrational about our press defense….there is NO reason a high-level D1 team has to be that bad at it…shouldn't be break the press-get-a-layup every time. It does concern me that no asst coach has ever nudged the head coach and said something like "I've run the numbers and when we press the opponent gets a layup or foul at the rim 58% of the time while at Louisville its 12% of the time, what are we doing wrong?" Makes you wonder about the systems in place).

Just off-season banter

Some SU stats from Kenpom for final offensive/defensive efficiency based on points per possession:

2015 Offense #150/ Defense #19
2014 Offense #37/ Defense #13
2013 Offense #29/ Defense #8
2012 Offense #7/ Defense #17
2011 Offense #29/ Defense #18
2010 Offense #9/ Defense #20

Our defense has been consistently good. Our offense has not been at the same high level as our defense most years and fluctuates more widely. Our offense was flat out bad this year confirmed both by the stats and the eye test. I was actually surprised our offense stats were even that good in 2014. These stats were per possession so pace is not a key determinant. I agree with you that SU's press has not been effective and that has been the case for a long time. Since our players consistently have well above average athleticism either our scheme isn't good or our execution isn't good. But I don't think that will change unless our approach to pressing changes.

 

[Shermthegeneral]

I've never been a fan of the one trick pony defense! I like to keep people off balance!