2013

[Brooky03]

We had 3 guards, one of which was this bum Tyler Coney kid. Didn't seem to be a problem then, speaking solely from a depth standpoint. Did we get lucky that one of them didn't get hurt? Eh, maybe. How often do college players get hurt and miss significant time? Not that often.

 

[pearl31]

We had 3 guards, one of which was this bum Tyler Coney kid. Didn't seem to be a problem then, speaking solely from a depth standpoint. Did we get lucky that one of them didn't get hurt? Eh, maybe. How often do college players get hurt and miss significant time? Not that often.

nope even if none of them get hurt they're all going to shoot below 25% from 3 and we'll have no inside game and we'll average 49 points/game and just keep on the downward slide our dino-coach has led us on since Carmelo left

 

[Cusefan0307]

Big difference is we started that year in the top 10.

 

[pearl31]

Big difference is we started that year in the top 10.

where the team started in the polls = how good they actually were?

 

[br801]

nope even if none of them get hurt they're all going to shoot below 25% from 3 and we'll have no inside game and we'll average 49 points/game and just keep on the downward slide our dino-coach has led us on since Carmelo left

And that, my friends, is how it's done.

 

[two3zone]

We had 3 guards, one of which was this bum Tyler Coney kid. Didn't seem to be a problem then, speaking solely from a depth standpoint. Did we get lucky that one of them didn't get hurt? Eh, maybe. How often do college players get hurt and miss significant time? Not that often.

We had a senior starter and a McDonalds All American who was in his second year in the back court. Two of the guys have never played in an Orange uniform, the other has a grand total of 335 minutes and shot less than 30% from the field and wasn't exactly stellar in the zone.

If you can't see the difference between 2013s back court and this years then you're crazy.

 

[pearl31]

If you can't see the difference between 2013s back court and this years then you're crazy.

and if you can't see the huge potential in next year's backcourt you're crazy AND miserable :noidea:

 

[Cusefan0307]

and if you can't see the huge potential in next year's backcourt you're crazy AND miserable :noidea:

Pearl, I love your posts, but it's hard to be optimistic about next year after this year. We won 23 games and are losing our top three scorers. I know Lydon will improve immensely, but I don't have the same confidence about the other front court guys offensively. Roberson is still the same player he was as a freshman from a skill standpoint.

The only way we are better is if you think Gillon, Howard, and Battle can out produce Cooney, Mal and Gbinije and I don't think any of the new guys at guard will be as good as the guys they are replacing.

 

[pearl31]

Pearl, I love your posts, but it's hard to be optimistic about next year after this year. We won 23 games and are losing our top three scorers. I know Lydon will improve immensely, but I don't have the same confidence about the other front court guys offensively. Roberson is still the same player he was as a freshman from a skill standpoint.

The only way we are better is if you think Gillon, Howard, and Battle can out produce Cooney, Mal and Gbinije and I don't think any of the new guys at guard will be as good as the guys they are replacing.

I think Gillon will at least match (offensively) what Cooney provided.
I think Battle will at least match (and actually be more efficient than) what Malachi provided.
Yes, we will miss G's production, but I'm confident we'll compensate in other areas - big increase from Lydon, new contribution from Moyer, and at least some increase from both Roberson and Coleman.
That is what I'm expecting.

 

[Eagles20]

I think Gillon will at least match (offensively) what Cooney provided.
I think Battle will at least match (and actually be more efficient than) what Malachi provided.
Yes, we will miss G's production, but I'm confident we'll compensate in other areas - big increase from Lydon, new contribution from Moyer, and at least some increase from both Roberson and Coleman.
That is what I'm expecting.

I think it's great to think positively. Team has talent, but this is an important off season for every player on the roster to significantly improve. This roster lost a lot of offensive production and the question marks are real. I'm intrigued

 

[orangehomer]

so what roster in America doesn't have questions to answer?

 

[NYCorange]

Pearl, I love your posts, but it's hard to be optimistic about next year after this year. We won 23 games and are losing our top three scorers. I know Lydon will improve immensely, but I don't have the same confidence about the other front court guys offensively. Roberson is still the same player he was as a freshman from a skill standpoint.

The only way we are better is if you think Gillon, Howard, and Battle can out produce Cooney, Mal and Gbinije and I don't think any of the new guys at guard will be as good as the guys they are replacing.

I think you undersell our frontcourt. Our guards don't have to be better than last year for our team to improve. Our frontcourt should be much better. We didn't lose anyone--everyone got a year stronger and better--and we added a 7'2 shot blocking redshirt sophomore center. If our guards can do 75% of what they did last year, we should be at least able to tread water. If they match what we did last year (probably unlikely) then we could be a NC contender.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think you undersell our frontcourt. Our guards don't have to be better than last year for our team to improve. Our frontcourt should be much better. We didn't lose anyone--everyone got a year stronger and better--and we added a 7'2 shot blocking redshirt sophomore center. If our guards can do 75% of what they did last year, we should be at least able to tread water. If they match what we did last year (probably unlikely) then we could be a NC contender.

Chukwu isn't providing scoring for us next year. We should be competing for the National Title next year, but we most likely won't. Our best guys continuously get drafted each year, yet we have been beat by teams with less NBA talent than we have (see UNC, Louisville, Miami, and UVA for the most part) and our offense has been worse than those teams.

 

[Briancuse]

so what roster in America doesn't have questions to answer?

Duke, I hear you though, look this is a nice team going into next year, but getting to the Final Four last year, and with Jb so close to retirement, we wanted one more crack at the title, and now that looks like its not going to happen.

 

[two3zone]

and if you can't see the huge potential in next year's backcourt you're crazy AND miserable :noidea:

For you to discredit what we've lost is delusional and crazy.

 

[two3zone]

I think Gillon will at least match (offensively) what Cooney provided.
I think Battle will at least match (and actually be more efficient than) what Malachi provided.
Yes, we will miss G's production, but I'm confident we'll compensate in other areas - big increase from Lydon, new contribution from Moyer, and at least some increase from both Roberson and Coleman.
That is what I'm expecting.

I can agree that Gillon can match offensively what Cooney did, what about on defense?

I have no problem calling Battle and Mali a wash either and even putting Battle ahead of him.

Those two things out of the way our best offensive player isn't replicated. I agree Lydon will make up some of that, but Roberson has probably regressed since HS on the offensive end, Coleman is the exact player as his freshman year, and 7'2" is extremely limited on the offensive end.

I'd think our defense will be better than it was last year inside but our defense from the guards is going to be noticeably worse. We had a total of 9 seasons in orange from the two guys up top last year, 0 from the guys next year. It's almost unfair to expect them to be even close to equal on the defensive end.

 

[Dave85]

Pearl, I love your posts, but it's hard to be optimistic about next year after this year. We won 23 games and are losing our top three scorers. I know Lydon will improve immensely, but I don't have the same confidence about the other front court guys offensively. Roberson is still the same player he was as a freshman from a skill standpoint.

The only way we are better is if you think Gillon, Howard, and Battle can out produce Cooney, Mal and Gbinije and I don't think any of the new guys at guard will be as good as the guys they are replacing.

Gillon could easily be as good as TC. Battle could be as good as Mal. You can't replace G that easily. Howard gets us halfway there. Moyer has to get us the other half way there along with Roberson having a stellar senior season. It's going to be close. But I see your point.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Gillon could easily be as good as TC. Battle could be as good as Mal. You can't replace G that easily. Howard gets us halfway there. Moyer has to get us the other half way there along with Roberson having a stellar senior season. It's going to be close. But I see your point.

Who does Moyer see the court over? Certainly not Roberson or Lydon. He's not a center, and he's not a guard. If he averages over 15 minutes a game I will be shocked.

What you described there is outside of a surprising final four run a team that finished in the middle of the ACC last year and we are 20-24 in our last 44 league games. We have routinely have been beat by the top of the conference in that time period outside of beating UVA in the elite 8 last year.

So maybe the guys you mentioned can replace the guys that left, but that still leaves us a middle of the pack in the ACC and fighting for another tourney spot into next year.

 

[Brooky03]

We had a senior starter and a McDonalds All American who was in his second year in the back court. Two of the guys have never played in an Orange uniform, the other has a grand total of 335 minutes and shot less than 30% from the field and wasn't exactly stellar in the zone.

If you can't see the difference between 2013s back court and this years then you're crazy.

Again, not talking about talent because that's not the point that others were making. This is about depth. People are saying 3 guards isn't enough and it will hurt us. Well, talent doesn't have anything to do with how many minutes a player is capable of playing.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Pearl, I love your posts, but it's hard to be optimistic about next year after this year. We won 23 games and are losing our top three scorers. I know Lydon will improve immensely, but I don't have the same confidence about the other front court guys offensively. Roberson is still the same player he was as a freshman from a skill standpoint.

The only way we are better is if you think Gillon, Howard, and Battle can out produce Cooney, Mal and Gbinije and I don't think any of the new guys at guard will be as good as the guys they are replacing.

I guess it comes down to a simple choice: Get busy livin or get busy dyin.

 

[Briancuse]

Gillon could easily be as good as TC. Battle could be as good as Mal. You can't replace G that easily. Howard gets us halfway there. Moyer has to get us the other half way there along with Roberson having a stellar senior season. It's going to be close. But I see your point.

I think the hope was that Battle and Gillon would make up somewhat for what Cooney and G gave you, and the difference would be made up by what Malachi would have given us, the extra ppg he would have increased by.

 

[Dave85]

I think the hope was that Battle and Gillon would make up somewhat for what Cooney and G gave you, and the difference would be made up by what Malachi would have given us, the extra ppg he would have increased by.

Don't forget Moyer and a most likely increase in production from Lydon.

 

[Brooky03]

Pearl, I love your posts, but it's hard to be optimistic about next year after this year. We won 23 games and are losing our top three scorers. I know Lydon will improve immensely, but I don't have the same confidence about the other front court guys offensively. Roberson is still the same player he was as a freshman from a skill standpoint.

The only way we are better is if you think Gillon, Howard, and Battle can out produce Cooney, Mal and Gbinije and I don't think any of the new guys at guard will be as good as the guys they are replacing.

You're ignoring defense. This year's team was not that good on defense. They played pretty good D in the NCAAT until they faced a high powered offense. Chukwu at Center changes everything. Going 6'8" and 6'9" at Forward instead of a 6'6" guy back there is a big improvement (will help a ton with rebounding). Up top, we lose experience but maintain the length and athleticism when Battle and Howard are in.

The defense is going to be the x-factor this coming season and that will make up for any offensive shortcomings, imo, if there even are any shortcomings. Don't forget, Gbinije was a good scorer but a below average PG on his best day. People called for Cooney's head, in terms of offensive production, all season long. And Richardson had a long stretch of atrocious play. We're not asking the young guys to replace Jesus.

 

[Cusefan0307]

You're ignoring defense. This year's team was not that good on defense. They played pretty good D in the NCAAT until they faced a high powered offense. Chukwu at Center changes everything. Going 6'8" and 6'9" at Forward instead of a 6'6" guy back there is a big improvement (will help a ton with rebounding). Up top, we lose experience but maintain the length and athleticism when Battle and Howard are in.

The defense is going to be the x-factor this coming season and that will make up for any offensive shortcomings, imo, if there even are any shortcomings. Don't forget, Gbinije was a good scorer but a below average PG on his best day. People called for Cooney's head, in terms of offensive production, all season long. And Richardson had a long stretch of atrocious play. We're not asking the young guys to replace Jesus.

Even with Lydon at the 5, we finished 16th in defensive efficiency this year. We're not going to get that much better there, even if we finish in the top 10.

Offense was the problem last year and I expect it to be this year as well, we finished 51st. Can we finish in the top 25 in offensive efficiency?

If we get mystery man, I'll be a lot more optimistic, until then I don't see how we can score.

 

[Dave85]

Even with Lydon at the 5, we finished 16th in defensive efficiency this year. We're not going to get that much better there, even if we finish in the top 10.

Offense was the problem last year and I expect it to be this year as well, we finished 51st. Can we finish in the top 25 in offensive efficiency?

If we get mystery man, I'll be a lot more optimistic, until then I don't see how we can score.

If the defense played better the offense would have more opportunities to score.

If the offense played better we would have won more games.

We need to be good at both.