2023 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[upperdeck]

which of those roll off the tongue Hall of Famer xXX?

ARod without the issues and?
Billy Wagner

I mean if you were going to a game to watch a player would any of these guys make you say I hope they dont sit today I want to see them?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

which of those roll off the tongue Hall of Famer xXX?

ARod without the issues and?
Billy Wagner

I mean if you were going to a game to watch a player would any of these guys make you say I hope they dont sit today I want to see them?

Without looking up numbers, etc.
ARod
Wagner
Kent (total position choice)
Maybe Jones and Helton. (Shouldn’t be discounted because of field. They don’t do that for the Pesky pole or Yankees short porch or guys with great averages and steals who played on turf.)

 

[upperdeck]

Kent would be a fine choice.. Great numbers as a 2nd baseman. I would also say most casual fans never really paid attention to how well he hit the ball

And some of these guys have good numbers but they just didnt ring the bell like a HOF. Stats vs perception I guess.

like if you hit 30 Hrs for 20 yrs you are a decent HR hitter but not an elite guy and suddenly you look up and they are at 600. its a debate as well, does 4-6 yrs of really high level and 15 yrs of ehh make you better than 20 yrs of pretty good. I dont know which is harder to be really good for a chunk or good enough for a long time.

 

[jncuse]

#1. ARod
#2. Rolen (barely - I want to have 2)

Possibly for year 1 anyway- Beltran (see my post below)

Close but no go - Sheffield, Kent, and Wagner

 

[Symphony Steve]

I'm a no on Helton. Largely because there's a real solid comp where he just doesn't measure up. I'm talking Larry Walker. Unlike Helton, he didn't spend his entire career in Colorado, having first played more than five full seasons in Montreal.

Despite having about 1000 fewer AB's than Helton (apparently that turf did a number on his knees), Walker had more HR's and far more SB's than Helton. Helton was almost exclusively a 1B, while Walker played the OF for much of his career. Helton had a slightly better OBP, Walker had a better slugging percentage.

Walker won 7 Gold Glove awards for his work in RF, Helton won 3 at 1B.

Since Walker wasn't a slam dunk, I'd consign Helton to the Hall Of The Very Good.

Good thing for his fans that I don't have a vote. But I was in SU at the same time as Jayson Stark. Wonder what he thinks...hmmm, I'll try to find out...

Jayson's ballot includes Helton. But, then, Jayson was always a far nicer guy than yours truly.

 

[jncuse]

The first year class of 14 is not good -- usually there is a few that deserve some real consideration. There is only one candidate in the entire group that deserves at least a serious looksy and that is Carlos Beltran. I also think there will only be two that reach the 5% threshold to stay on for one more year - Carlos Beltran and Francisco Rodriguez

Beltran's a pretty decent candidate compared to the others.

The Good
- WAR of 70.1 - Very good as a starting point for consideration to at least see what else he has on his resume (only Arod has a higher WAR)

- 9 All Star Games is more than anybody on the list except for Arod and Manny Ramirez - tied with Sheffield

- 3 Gold Gloves, 2 Silver Sluggers
-
The Bad
- Peak performance is not that high for a HOF.
- Only 2 top 10's in MVP voting.

The WAR values his ability to get on base and long term consistency, but not enough "dominance" for me to put him in early (or at all)

That being said not sure if I would vote for him in year 2, but if I was a voter I may vote for him in year 1 to get over the 5% threshold so he at least stays on the ballot for future consideration.

 

[jncuse]

Looking closer at a new "closer" on the ballot - Francisco Rodriguez.

Billy Wagner gets a fair amount of love in voting. 51% of people have him in. I think those voters at least have to consider Rodriguez as well as they are somewhat comparable - although Wagner is more dominant and a better candidate in my view

Comparing the 2:
Innings Pitched - Rodriguez 976, Wagner 903

WAR - Wagner 27.8, Rodriguez 24.2 (the fact that Wagner is about 14% higher in WAR with less innings does show he was more dominant)

Saves - Rodriguez 437, Wagner 422

Top 5 in Cy Young Voting - Rodriguez 3 times, Wagner 1

All Star Appearances - Wagner 7, Rodriguez 6

All time Save Record - Rodriguez 62

Do I think Rodriguez is a Hall of Famer right now or ever? No, since I don't think Wagner is one either. But he should at least be considered.

 

[MSOrange]

 

[OrangeDW]

which of those roll off the tongue Hall of Famer xXX?

ARod without the issues and?
Billy Wagner

I mean if you were going to a game to watch a player would any of these guys make you say I hope they dont sit today I want to see them?

Manny, ARod, and Sheffield.

ARod is one of the all time elite greats, and Manny and Sheffield are two of the best hitters I’ve ever seen.

I’d vote for all 3 of them in a heartbeat.

 

[MSOrange]

 

[MSOrange]

The Crime Dog is in and I couldn't be happier! The guy just did his job and did it very well without drawing attention to himself.

McGriff elected to HOF; Bonds, Clemens left out

Former slugger Fred McGriff was elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame on Sunday, with Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and Curt Schilling denied once again.

www.espn.com

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[jncuse]

I had Rolen in on my ballot as well, but I was not expecting him to get in.

 

[jncuse]

So now that Rolen has gotten in for a consistently very good career, but never a superstar at any point, I think its time for the Veterans Committee to reward Dwight Evans in the next year.

Modern statistical analysis (WAR) really like him as well.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I'm a no on Helton. Largely because there's a real solid comp where he just doesn't measure up. I'm talking Larry Walker. Unlike Helton, he didn't spend his entire career in Colorado, having first played more than five full seasons in Montreal.

Despite having about 1000 fewer AB's than Helton (apparently that turf did a number on his knees), Walker had more HR's and far more SB's than Helton. Helton was almost exclusively a 1B, while Walker played the OF for much of his career. Helton had a slightly better OBP, Walker had a better slugging percentage.

Walker won 7 Gold Glove awards for his work in RF, Helton won 3 at 1B.

Since Walker wasn't a slam dunk, I'd consign Helton to the Hall Of The Very Good.

Good thing for his fans that I don't have a vote. But I was in SU at the same time as Jayson Stark. Wonder what he thinks...hmmm, I'll try to find out...

Jayson's ballot includes Helton. But, then, Jayson was always a far nicer guy than yours truly.

Was Walker with Cromartie and Valentine or was he with Raines?

 

[jncuse]

Was Walker with Cromartie and Valentine or was he with Raines?

He was after both for the most part.

He might have played one full time year with Raines (1990) before Rained was traded .. if my memory was correct.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Was Walker with Cromartie and Valentine or was he with Raines?

Dawson was with Cromartie and Valentine.

 

[jncuse]

Dawson was with Cromartie and Valentine.

Yep - that was the highly touted late 70s-1981 outfield.

Then in 1981-82 Tim Raines came in, Cromartie slipped and Valentine flamed out due to injuries and personal demons.

Raines/Dawson/"x" filled the outfield until 1986... Expos had a hard time finding that 3rd outfielder for most of the 80s.

Then the 1990s came around and the Expos developed an outfield of Walker/Grissom/Alou that was amongst the best outfield in baseball in 1993 and 1994.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Dawson was with Cromartie and Valentine.

Thanks

 

[Fat tire 13]

Yep - that was the highly touted late 70s-1981 outfield.

Then in 1981-82 Tim Raines came in, Cromartie slipped and Valentine flamed out due to injuries and personal demons.

Raines/Dawson/"x" filled the outfield until 1986... Expos had a hard time finding that 3rd outfielder for most of the 80s.

Then the 1990s came around and the Expos developed an outfield of Walker/Grissom/Alou that was amongst the best outfield in baseball in 1993 and 1994.

Warren Cromartie is very interesting because he was one of the first players in MLB (to my knowledge) to go play in Japan. He put up crazy good numbers in Japan too in the mid-1980s

 

[Symphony Steve]

So now that Rolen has gotten in for a consistently very good career, but never a superstar at any point, I think its time for the Veterans Committee to reward Dwight Evans in the next year.

Modern statistical analysis (WAR) really like him as well.

As a Phillies' fan, I liked Scott Rolen. Perhaps it was due to his coming after Mike Schmidt, but I never thought of him as a potential HOF'er. I like the Dwight Evans comp. The Hall Of The Very Good.

 

[OrangeDW]

The hall of fame became a complete joke once the writers started squinting real hard, looking for any good players that weren’t PED users that they dislike.

I can’t even take it seriously anymore.