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Message: [QUOTE="relaxer, post: 4720587, member: 7852"] Actually, I'm throwing the feeding ability out of the window because I can name a number of players who were great dodgers and mediocre feeders who were 1st/2nd/3rd team AAs, but I can't think of any elite feeders with mediocre dodging skills that received such accolades in recent years. The best player I can think of who fits that description is Hiltz -- who is not only arguably the most gifted pure passer I've seen in D1 in several years (it's him or Teat IMO), but also a terrific shooter with a lightning quick release. But even Hiltz falls below the elite tier, because he's not a consistent dodging threat. Obviously players who were named the best player in college lacrosse are going to have no holes in their game and be able to feed, but I actually think your examples prove my point. Yes, being able to make a good pass took them from elite to #1 in the sport. But it was their other attributes that made them elite. In particular, I would argue that Rambo and O'Neill are merely decent feeders. They are spectacular dodgers who pretty much automatically drew double and triple teams, and this created open looks to other players. They don't throw the kind of inch perfect laser passes or thread balls through seemingly invisible passing lanes that make your jaw drop; they simply make the right play to the open guy after breaking down the defense. You don't need to be an elite feeder to put up gaudy assist numbers when defenses are forced to slide off of your teammates with abandon to stop you from scoring. Wisnauskas was an elite passer IMO, which helped compensate for the fact that he was a great dodger, but not quite on the level of O'Neill and Rambo (he also had a Ryan Brown-esque outside shot to keep defenses honest that he could get off from multiple release points in an instant). Again, this all comes down to the fact that elite dodging breaks down defenses and makes it easier to accomplish everything else (especially feeding). Other skills -- such as finishing and shooting in particular -- are also essential to a great offense, but without someone with the dodging component to open things up, their impact is blunted. An elite dodging attack man can change a game regardless of supporting cast (Baum, Spencer, Gray at BU, etc), but an elite finisher typically only reaches that rarified "teamer" AA status when paired with an elite dodger (look at guys like O'Keefe, Lindley with and without Spencer and Ament; both still great players, but not record breaking goal scorers). As for Ford, I think you are misunderstanding or mischaracterizing my comments. I am not saying that he [I]can't[/I] become an elite player, just that he has question marks. His game doesn't look entirely dissimilar from Pat Spencer's at this point in his high school career -- but Pat Spencer was a superior athlete, and he improved tremendously over the next several years. Of course Ford could also improve dramatically as well just as any recruit could -- but it's simply cold, hard logic that attack recruits who demonstrate D1 level dodging skills are generally less risky than recruits who have yet to demonstrate that ability. I didn't say that Ford was a bust in the making, I said I had more concerns about him relative to his fellow 5 stars, which is a relatively tame observation IMO; it's a critical analysis for sure, but it's hardly attacking him. If it seems otherwise, it's only because I have continued to elaborate on my point after you have pressed me on it. And I've continued to do so not specifically because I want to talk about Ford, but because I think it's worth debating our POVs on what attributes are most important when it comes to playing different positions at the elite level in D1. P.S. You are correct in that I am not a Syracuse fan -- I'm a fan of the D1 game as a whole, and I think this forum generally offers a lot of good insight and discussion so I participate in it all the same (just as you do as a Terp fan). I don't have an agenda and have been effusive about Cuse players in the past just as I was more measured in my assessments of the Cuse NB AAs (I would argue that my assessment of Deere would be more accurately described as qualified praise rather than skepticism). People asked for their takes on the players in the NB game, so I gave my take, but I'm always open to have my opinion changed. [/QUOTE]

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