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Message: [QUOTE="Orangezoo, post: 5527996, member: 237"] There was also some roster carryover from the transition of the end of the dominant years ( Ennis year) through that kept some of that edge and expectations until it finally just kind of phased out. I mean look at the class he heralded with Brown, Taylor, Copeland, Bell and Judah. Outside of Judah ( with no disrespect to Brown) that would not be a class you would have seen brought in 5-6 years prior and heralded as special. That class had traits that went against the grain of the program and the momentum that fizzled out once there was no one left from those teams that knew how to win it went the other direction. Buddy and Joe gave us some moments as did Kadary and Jesse etc but still - not the same level and commitment. It really just fell flat with that recent class and that carried over into Reds first two years. That mindset and a culture of winning now has to be reset and rebuilt completely. [/QUOTE]