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Message: [QUOTE="N.Y. Orangeman, post: 1824358, member: 21"] The whole independence thing seems kind of contrived at this point. Consider: -ND is playing several games a year against the ACC by agreement with the ACC (like all other fb teams) -ND is in the ACC for all other sports (aside for hockey and maybe another anomaly that I'm not picking up). This isn't definitive in and of itself, but a reflection that ND is and has been part of a conference in some fashion for a number of years. -ND cannot join any other conference for 20 years -ND is a part of the TV contract (via the ACC arrangement and save the NBC component) Semantic aside and given you can't play for the ACC title, IMO, it seems like ND is more a partial member (by choice, of course) than anything coming close to an independent. Edit: I'm not trying to antagonize you in any manner (I appreciate your posts here and elsewhere). [/QUOTE]