advantages of Freshman team

[stuckinbig11]

'The Freshman team was lost long ago when freshmen became eligible for varsity play. For some, it was good because they were ready to play at the varsity level and move on. For others, it meant spending a year or more on the bench without any game-experience development. Players like Braswell and Buddy (and many more) could really gain from starting and playing in 20 or more games against competition upgraded from high school. I can think of many players that benefitted from Freshman games. Development of non-superstars has taken a step backward. Too bad.

 

[Brooky03]

Freshman playing against Freshman isn't much different than 17 year olds playing against 17 year olds in AAU/HS, is it?

 

[dasher]

overall, a waste of money

 

[SUintheVille]

The G League for college?

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

There is no room for a 'JV' team at a major college more so for time than money. The guys you mention along with the walk ons spend just as much time at the Melo center practicing and traveling to games as the guys like Battle and Brissett who play 35+ per game. They don't really have time to play extra games vs other colleges.

 

[stuckinbig11]

I am not saying it should or will come back, but game time is different than practice time.

 

[SBU72]

Freshman playing against Freshman isn't much different than 17 year olds playing against 17 year olds in AAU/HS, is it?

It is very different from hs. Close to AAU maybe. A couple of advantages are getting into the routine of college life/ball. Totally different. Also kids get to learn the coaches system then play games with it. In today's scene, freshman teams will never return.

 

[Brooky03]

It is very different from hs. Close to AAU maybe. A couple of advantages are getting into the routine of college life/ball. Totally different. Also kids get to learn the coaches system then play games with it. In today's scene, freshman teams will never return.

I think the benefits just don't justify it. Full scrimmages in practice against better players would be a lot more beneficial than freshman playing other freshman. Smaller colleges tend to have 'JV' teams in various sports and those games are usually ugly. There isn't much competitive spirit, much like G League games outside of playoffs.

 

[manleyzoo]

'The Freshman team was lost long ago when freshmen became eligible for varsity play. For some, it was good because they were ready to play at the varsity level and move on. For others, it meant spending a year or more on the bench without any game-experience development. Players like Braswell and Buddy (and many more) could really gain from starting and playing in 20 or more games against competition upgraded from high school. I can think of many players that benefitted from Freshman games. Development of non-superstars has taken a step backward. Too bad.

Bill Walton played on the freshman team at UCLA. For the next three years he was college player of the year.

 

[creatorsgam]

Bill Walton played on the freshman team at UCLA. For the next three years he was college player of the year.

Well, this sample size of 1 from nearly 50 years ago is proof enough for me.

#bringbackthefroshteam

 

[Hoo's That]

I don't know if it will affect anyone's opinion in this discussion, but football and basketball were the last two sports to allow freshman eligibility. The other sports allowed it at various points before then.

 

[manleyzoo]

Well, this sample size of 1 from nearly 50 years ago is proof enough for me.

#bringbackthefroshteam

You're pretty easily convinced. I thought it would be a tougher sell than that. I'm not saying frosh teams should be brought back...it was just an anecdote.

 

[creatorsgam]

You're pretty easily convinced. I thought it would be a tougher sell than that. I'm not saying frosh teams should be brought back...it was just an anecdote.

For the majority of freshman that aren’t already NBA -eady it could be beneficial. If only, as someone already mentioned, to get used to the system of the coach and adapt to academics/campus life. But it just isn’t practical anymore and doubt it ever returns.

 

[Brooky03]

For the majority of freshman that aren’t already NBA -eady it could be beneficial. If only, as someone already mentioned, to get used to the system of the coach and adapt to academics/campus life. But it just isn’t practical anymore and doubt it ever returns.

Don't players adapt to college already? I don't think playing low caliber games against freshman changes that aspect.

 

[creatorsgam]

Don't players adapt to college already? I don't think playing low caliber games against freshman changes that aspect.

I guess. I don’t know how a freshman team would be run, but figured the demand would be less strenuous.

 

[SBU72]

Well, this sample size of 1 from nearly 50 years ago is proof enough for me.

#bringbackthefroshteam

Look at all the hall of fame players from Walton's era and before. Alcindor, West, Havlicek, Chamberlain, Baylor etc, etc, etc. And I'm talking many (most?) of the all time top 100 NBA players all played freshman ball. I watched Bob Lanier play Calvin Murphy their freshman year. Their game was before the varsity game and half the people left before that game.

Still freshman teams are gone for good.

 

[SWC75]

I used to enjoy the freshman games which would be going on when I entered Manley. i could watch much of the second half and get as good look at our future players playing extensive minutes. i remember 1966-67 when we had an undefeated freshman team with Wayne Ward averaging 20p/20r and Ernie Austin averaging 30 points. When they took on Niagara, with Calvin Murphy averaging 50 points per game, the crowd actually came to see that game and many of them left during the varsity game.

I've have long through it would be a good idea to have a JV team to give the younger scholarship players and the walk-ons plenty of playing time and add to their development, (they could still practice against the varsity and be available if needed for the varsity game). We could have seen Braswell score 30p/20r against OCC in the prelim and then seen him get in late in the Arkansas State game for another display of his skills.

I asked Jim Boeheim about this on his show several years ago and he pointed out the big problem that would prevent this. (I also asked on another occasion about double-headers with the women's team and got the same answer. ) Most games in 1966-67 were not televised. Now most of them are. If the prelim goes into overtime and delays the varsity game, it's going to mess us the schedules of the TV networks and that's a no-no.

it might be possible to have a JV team or double-headers with the women during the pre-conference season when most of the home games are on on ESPN+ but here comes the ACC network, so I guess we can forget that, too.

 

[creatorsgam]

Look at all the hall of fame players from Walton's era and before. Alcindor, West, Havlicek, Chamberlain, Baylor etc, etc, etc. And I'm talking many (most?) of the all time top 100 NBA players all played freshman ball. I watched Bob Lanier play Calvin Murphy their freshman year. Their game was before the varsity game and half the people left before that game.

Still freshman teams are gone for good.

50 year old examples... comparing eras is an exercise in futility.

I would say those players would have been HOF’ers regardless of freshman ball, but we will never know.

The OP was really getting at the development of bench players/non-superstars. This is nearly all of college basketball. But for the guys that are ready to compete I expect it would only hold back their development.

 

[Hoo's That]

Look at all the hall of fame players from Walton's era and before. Alcindor, West, Havlicek, Chamberlain, Baylor etc, etc, etc. And I'm talking many (most?) of the all time top 100 NBA players all played freshman ball. I watched Bob Lanier play Calvin Murphy their freshman year. Their game was before the varsity game and half the people left before that game.

Still freshman teams are gone for good.

That's how it was at UCLA w/Alcindor. People would come to the freshman game to watch him and then leave when the varsity played. (I gather they were mediocre then.)

 

[RoysRunts]

Every one on the 75 Final 4 team played Freshman (Except fpr the Lasalle/Westhill Coach Transfer).

 

[Brooky03]

Look at all the hall of fame players from Walton's era and before. Alcindor, West, Havlicek, Chamberlain, Baylor etc, etc, etc. And I'm talking many (most?) of the all time top 100 NBA players all played freshman ball. I watched Bob Lanier play Calvin Murphy their freshman year. Their game was before the varsity game and half the people left before that game.

Still freshman teams are gone for good.

I'm sure people enjoyed watching the stars beat up on overmatched kids the same age. People do watch AAU tournaments after all.

I think linking the existence of freshman ball to the success of those players would be a stretch.

From a financial standpoint, there would be no path to reliable profitability for schools.

 

[stuckinbig11]

The Bill Smith/Bob McDaniel/Tom Green/Bill Finney frosh team of 67/68 filled the stands also.

 

[pfister1]

'The Freshman team was lost long ago when freshmen became eligible for varsity play. For some, it was good because they were ready to play at the varsity level and move on. For others, it meant spending a year or more on the bench without any game-experience development. Players like Braswell and Buddy (and many more) could really gain from starting and playing in 20 or more games against competition upgraded from high school. I can think of many players that benefitted from Freshman games. Development of non-superstars has taken a step backward. Too bad.

I really doubt the caliber of play of freshman basketball teams would be higher than what these kids experience at AAU or the high level basketball high schools that the better players play at.

I understood the concept from the perspective of thinking that playing a varsity sport and getting acclimated to college life might be too much, but I really don’t buy an argument that it’s develpomentally beneficial.

How would you find enough eligible players to fill out a freshman roster? If the varsity team takes 3-4 new players on average, what happens to the others? How would you put together a team that was good enough to aid these kids development if there wasn’t going to be a roster spot on the varsity for half of them at the end of their freshman campaign?

Seems like the idea of freshman and JV college teams died because they were impractical. With so many college teams playing at a high level and getting exposure I don’t think you’ll convince kids with any real ability to play on a non-varsity track.

 

[stuckinbig11]

Seems like the idea of freshman and JV college teams died because they were impractical. With so many college teams playing at a high level and getting exposure I don’t think you’ll convince kids with any real ability to play on a non-varsity track.

I never suggested that they would or could come back, just that SOME players could benefit from a freshman team. I still believe that.

 

[SWC75]

That's how it was at UCLA w/Alcindor. People would come to the freshman game to watch him and then leave when the varsity played. (I gather they were mediocre then.)

The varsity had won the last two national championships but they had an off year in 1965-66, (18-8).
John Wooden Coaching Record | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com