Amount of scholarships used since 2013

[Alsacs]

We haven't had 13 scholarship players since 2012.
In 2013 we had:
MCW-So/Cooney-rFr/Fair-Jr/Grant-Fr/Keita-Jr/Triche-Sr/Christmas-So./Coleman-Fr/Southerland-Sr and transfer Gbinije-RS
3-Fr, 2-So, 2-Jr, 2-Sr 1-RS
10 guys with only 9 eligible. We wasted 3 available scholarships


In 2014 we had:
Ennis-Fr/Cooney-rSo./Fair-Sr/Grant-So/Christmas-Jr/Keita-Sr/Coleman-So/Gbinije-rSo/Johnson-Fr/Patterson-Fr/Chino-Fr/Roberson-Fr
5-Fr, 4-So, 1- Jr, 2-Sr,
12 guys with all eligible. We wasted 1 available scholarship

In 2015
Gbinije- rJr/Cooney-rJr/ Joseph-Fr/ McCollough-Fr/Coleman-RS/Christmas-Sr./Patterson-So/Johnson-So/Roberson-So/Chino-So.
2-Fr, 4-So, 2-Jr., 1-Sr., 1-RS
10 guys, 9 available. We wasted 3 scholarships

This year we are paying the consequences of not using scholarships.

We had 10 guys last year and lost Christmas/Patterson/Johnson/McCollough and replaced them with Lydon/Richardson/Howard/Chukwu.

We only have 9 guys available and the fact we are on the bubble is a credit to the players and HC but the mess is partially our own fault.

A program as top notch as Syracuse shouldn't voluntarily go 3 years in a row without a full roster and now we have 3 more years of it without a choice.

As we got hit with 8 lost scholarships .

 

[two3zone]

Along with not using them all there have been far too many recruiting misses as well. Elite and top tier programs shouldn't be in this situation.

 

[Cuse'91]

We haven't had 13 scholarship players since 2012.
In 2013 we had:
MCW-So/Cooney-rFr/Fair-Jr/Grant-Fr/Keita-Jr/Triche-Sr/Christmas-So./Coleman-Fr/Southerland-Sr and transfer Gbinije-RS
3-Fr, 2-So, 2-Jr, 2-Sr 1-RS
10 guys with only 9 eligible. We wasted 3 available scholarships


In 2014 we had:
Ennis-Fr/Cooney-rSo./Fair-Sr/Grant-So/Christmas-Jr/Keita-Sr/Coleman-So/Gbinije-rSo/Johnson-Fr/Patterson-Fr/Chino-Fr/Roberson-Fr
5-Fr, 4-So, 1- Jr, 2-Sr,
12 guys with all eligible. We wasted 1 available scholarship

In 2015
Gbinije- rJr/Cooney-rJr/ Joseph-Fr/ McCollough-Fr/Coleman-RS/Christmas-Sr./Patterson-So/Johnson-So/Roberson-So/Chino-So.
2-Fr, 4-So, 2-Jr., 1-Sr., 1-RS
10 guys, 9 available. We wasted 3 scholarships

This year we are paying the consequences of not using scholarships.

We had 10 guys last year and lost Christmas/Patterson/Johnson/McCollough and replaced them with Lydon/Richardson/Howard/Chukwu.

We only have 9 guys available and the fact we are on the bubble is a credit to the players and HC but the mess is partially our own fault.

A program as top notch as Syracuse shouldn't voluntarily go 3 years in a row without a full roster and now we have 3 more years of it without a choice.

As we got hit with 8 lost scholarships .

The more scholarship players we have the more choices for our head coach... You know, like having to make in game decisions, things like that... Just play all zone so you only need to play 6.5 players a game, that's the ticket...

 

[two3zone]

The more scholarship players we have the more choices for our head coach... You know, like having to make in game decisions, things like that... Just play all zone so you only need to play 6.5 players a game, that's the ticket...

Sad part is our 11-12 teams bench would beat this entire roster.

 

[Cuse'91]

Sad part is our 11-12 teams bench would beat this entire roster.

Yeah, any "average" Cuse team would be a threat to will it all this year...

 

[pfister1]

You guys are beautiful. JB only plays 7-8 players MAX. Except in rare cases, when we have more guys on the roster than the 7-8 that are immediately eligible they are going to have to be projects because players that are ready to play aren't willing to sit. Therefore if we are going to use the extra scholarship the players have to be deep bench players that are willing to come in and sit, sit, sit. If we load up on guys that are deep bench you are unhappy because we have too many recruiting misses. The bottom line is that JB's style of managing his roster will not allow for more than 7-8 high caliber prospects. Calipari or Pitino can have more quality players on their rosters because they manage their benches differently.

And we'll never know whether BJ and Ron were misses because they didn't spend four years here in order for us to find out.

 

[Alsacs]

You guys are beautiful. JB only plays 7-8 players MAX. Except in rare cases, when we have more guys on the roster than the 7-8 that are immediately eligible they are going to have to be projects because players that are ready to play aren't willing to sit. Therefore if we are going to use the extra scholarship the players have to be deep bench players that are willing to come in and sit, sit, sit. If we load up on guys that are deep bench you are unhappy because we have too many recruiting misses. The bottom line is that JB's style of managing his roster will not allow for more than 7-8 high caliber prospects. Calipari or Pitino can have more quality players on their rosters because they manage their benches differently.

And we'll never know whether BJ and Ron were misses because they didn't spend four years here in order for us to find out.

Why does JB manage his bench differently? He can recruit talent to SU as 2012 showed if he has the depth he will play it. My point is we have wasted 7 scholarships that could have helped this year. Syracuse when it has its full compliment of scholarships should use 12-13 every year.

Look at Kansas/Arizona/Michigan State those teams recruit high level talent and always develop the next guys for the future while in the present. There is no rule you can only develop 7-8 guys every year.

 

[pfister1]

Why does JB manage his bench differently? He can recruit talent to SU as 2012 showed if he has the depth he will play it. My point is we have wasted 7 scholarships that could have helped this year. Syracuse when it has its full compliment of scholarships should use 12-13 every year.

Look at Kansas/Arizona/Michigan State those teams recruit high level talent and always develop the next guys for the future while in the present. There is no rule you can only develop 7-8 guys every year.

Not saying there is, just saying that that has basically always been JB's approach, which I think makes it harder to recruit depth. Look at Kaleb Joseph this year. He is not playing well, but is he so bad that he can't manage to earn 5-10 minutes with the talent we have in front of him?? Well if you are looking at coming here as the 8th or 9th man on the roster and you see what happens to KJ with relatively modest talent in front of him, why would you expect to play? Different story for those guys coming in that project to be in the rotation.

 

[dasher]

Why does JB manage his bench differently? He can recruit talent to SU as 2012 showed if he has the depth he will play it. My point is we have wasted 7 scholarships that could have helped this year. Syracuse when it has its full compliment of scholarships should use 12-13 every year.

Look at Kansas/Arizona/Michigan State those teams recruit high level talent and always develop the next guys for the future while in the present. There is no rule you can only develop 7-8 guys every year.

True. If you remember in '03 he wanted to sit pace and did but pace's play made him push the rotation out one more spot. it's hurt us as well. kids have left that could have helped. Richard Manning, earl duncan when we needed a pt guard in '89).

 

[Alsacs]

Not saying there is, just saying that that has basically always been JB's approach, which I think makes it harder to recruit depth. Look at Kaleb Joseph this year. He is not playing well, but is he so bad that he can't manage to earn 5-10 minutes with the talent we have in front of him?? Well if you are looking at coming here as the 8th or 9th man on the roster and you see what happens to KJ with relatively modest talent in front of him, why would you expect to play? Different story for those guys coming in that project to be in the rotation.

Joseph hasn't been good enough to necessitate being the 4th guard but if we didn't have Richardson or Howard this year he would be getting minutes as the 3rd guard.
Joseph is more of a recruiting whiff than not depth. If he had promise JB would be playing him but he doesn't so he isn't.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Elite and top tier programs shouldn't be in this situation.

Welcome to 2016 March Madness. Parity at its finest. It's not just Cuse.

 

[two3zone]

Welcome to 2016 March Madness. Parity at its finest. It's not just Cuse.

Oh, this is a crazy season, one out of 30 teams could win it, I like to think we could but I don't think we're a top 30 team. With Syracuse being in the class it is there really isn't an excuse for it.

 

[OrangeFoo]

We haven't had 13 scholarship players since 2012.
In 2013 we had:
MCW-So/Cooney-rFr/Fair-Jr/Grant-Fr/Keita-Jr/Triche-Sr/Christmas-So./Coleman-Fr/Southerland-Sr and transfer Gbinije-RS
3-Fr, 2-So, 2-Jr, 2-Sr 1-RS
10 guys with only 9 eligible. We wasted 3 available scholarships


In 2014 we had:
Ennis-Fr/Cooney-rSo./Fair-Sr/Grant-So/Christmas-Jr/Keita-Sr/Coleman-So/Gbinije-rSo/Johnson-Fr/Patterson-Fr/Chino-Fr/Roberson-Fr
5-Fr, 4-So, 1- Jr, 2-Sr,
12 guys with all eligible. We wasted 1 available scholarship

In 2015
Gbinije- rJr/Cooney-rJr/ Joseph-Fr/ McCollough-Fr/Coleman-RS/Christmas-Sr./Patterson-So/Johnson-So/Roberson-So/Chino-So.
2-Fr, 4-So, 2-Jr., 1-Sr., 1-RS
10 guys, 9 available. We wasted 3 scholarships

This year we are paying the consequences of not using scholarships.

We had 10 guys last year and lost Christmas/Patterson/Johnson/McCollough and replaced them with Lydon/Richardson/Howard/Chukwu.

We only have 9 guys available and the fact we are on the bubble is a credit to the players and HC but the mess is partially our own fault.

A program as top notch as Syracuse shouldn't voluntarily go 3 years in a row without a full roster and now we have 3 more years of it without a choice.

As we got hit with 8 lost scholarships .

It's pretty simple JB is a win today is better than a win tomorrow guy... He won't let a player develop on the court and I think recruits and players know this. So once they realize they are not going to make it on the court they leave. Kids want to play not ride the pine... Part of it is their fault for not proving to coach that they belong on the court but part of it is JB not willing to let a kid play through mistakes unless he believes there is no other option.

 

[Brooky03]

The 2003 team had 9 scholarship players, counting Matt Gorman. That team sucked.

 

[NineOneSeven]

The 2003 team had 9 scholarship players, counting Matt Gorman. That team sucked.

The 2003 team had a future NBA HOFer and one of the best offensive players to ever play the game on it. Questionable comparison.

 

[Alsacs]

The 2003 team doesn't really have anything to do my point. Also the 2003 team lost James Theus and MeShawn Williams before the season began.
Also that team had 1 Senior and Carmelo leave early but had Nichols/McCrosky/Roberts/Watkins as reinforcement verbals for the roster to get us back up to the Max.

My point was we wasted 7 scholarships from 2013-2015 that we can never use and now with our reduction for the next 3 years will impact our margin for error depth on the roster.

If we had used those scholarships we wouldn't be forced to as JB said play Roberson because we have noone else.

 

[Brooky03]

The 2003 team had a future NBA HOFer and one of the best offensive players to ever play the game on it. Questionable comparison.

The 2013 F4 team had 9 also (10 if we include Gbinije's transfer year). The 2009 S16 team had 9. The 2010 team had 10 I think.

Point being; 9-10 seems to be the sweet spot. I think 11+ is unnecessary and I don't think many of the major programs carry that many.

 

[Brooky03]

The 2003 team doesn't really have anything to do my point. Also the 2003 team lost James Theus and MeShawn Williams before the season began.
Also that team had 1 Senior and Carmelo leave early but had Nichols/McCrosky/Roberts/Watkins as reinforcement verbals for the roster to get us back up to the Max.

My point was we wasted 7 scholarships from 2013-2015 that we can never use and now with our reduction for the next 3 years will impact our margin for error depth on the roster.

If we had used those scholarships we wouldn't be forced to as JB said play Roberson because we have noone else.

And my point is that we've 'wasted' that many scholarships on a consistent basis for at least a couple decades and enjoyed more success than all but maybe 6-8 teams. Anybody know a good way to see how Duke, UK, UNC, and KU handle their scholarships?

 

[Alsacs]

And my point is that we've 'wasted' that many scholarships on a consistent basis for at least a couple decades and enjoyed more success than all but maybe 6-8 teams. Anybody know a good way to see how Duke, UK, UNC, and KU handle their scholarships?

2009-2012 we played with 11-13 scholarship players every year.

UK/UNC/KU use all their scholarships most years on my quick scanning of their rosters recently.
Duke has been as low as 10 one time recently but they are 11-13 mostly as well.

We have enjoyed success in the last couple of decades but that doesn't mean we couldn't use more depth. Nobody is right or wrong in this discussion but the fact we have been short in using all available scholarships is valid.

Francis in another thread mentioned their were guards we never offered. I was shocked when I read that and wanted to see if we had the room at the Inn to offer these guys and that is when I noticed we always below the max except during the years 2011-2012 we were the deepest in the recent memory.

 

[Brooky03]

2009-2012 we played with 11-13 scholarship players every year.

UK/UNC/KU use all their scholarships most years on my quick scanning of their rosters recently.
Duke has been as low as 10 one time recently but they are 11-13 mostly as well.

We have enjoyed success in the last couple of decades but that doesn't mean we couldn't use more depth. Nobody is right or wrong in this discussion but the fact we have been short in using all available scholarships is valid.

Francis in another thread mentioned their were guards we never offered. I was shocked when I read that and wanted to see if we had the room at the Inn to offer these guys and that is when I noticed we always below the max except during the years 2011-2012 we were the deepest in the recent memory.

Who are you counting as scholarship players? I'm not including walk-ons who earned scholarships

08-09: Flynn, Devo, Harris, Rick, Onuaku, Rautins, Kristof, Joseph, Mookie, Jardine

09-10: Triche, Rautins, Wes, Rick, Onuaku, Joseph, Jardine, Mookie, Southerland, DaShonte Riley

10-11: Jardine, Triche, Joseph, Rick, Fab, Fair, Dion, Keita, Southerland, Mookie, Riley

11-12: Jardine, Triche, Joseph, Rak, Fab, Fair, Waiters, Southerland, Keita, MCW, Mookie, Cooney

What/who am I missing?

 

[Alsacs]

Who are you counting as scholarship players? I'm not including walk-ons who earned scholarships

08-09: Flynn, Devo, Harris, Rick, Onuaku, Rautins, Kristof, Joseph, Mookie, Jardine

09-10: Triche, Rautins, Wes, Rick, Onuaku, Joseph, Jardine, Mookie, Southerland, DaShonte Riley

10-11: Jardine, Triche, Joseph, Rick, Fab, Fair, Dion, Keita, Southerland, Mookie, Riley

11-12: Jardine, Triche, Joseph, Rak, Fab, Fair, Waiters, Southerland, Keita, MCW, Mookie, Cooney

What/who am I missing?

2009- Wes Johnson redshirted so we used that scholarship to get him.
However your correct it was 11-12 players. I believe in 2008 or 2009 we suffered our 2 scholly loss because of APR so that is factored in a little as well.

We still 11-12 vs. 10 and that extra player or two is depth. This roster right now doesn't have depth because we didn't recruit an extra guy when we could. We could use an extra big right now.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

The 2003 team doesn't really have anything to do my point. Also the 2003 team lost James Theus and MeShawn Williams before the season began.
Also that team had 1 Senior and Carmelo leave early but had Nichols/McCrosky/Roberts/Watkins as reinforcement verbals for the roster to get us back up to the Max.

My point was we wasted 7 scholarships from 2013-2015 that we can never use and now with our reduction for the next 3 years will impact our margin for error depth on the roster.

If we had used those scholarships we wouldn't be forced to as JB said play Roberson because we have noone else.

The 7 "wasted" scholarships have little bearing on today - we got sanctioned. It might have delayed the onset of the penalties, which is not a good think IMO. And the history of using less scholies might be an advantage now that we don't have a lot.

 

[Brooky03]

2009- Wes Johnson redshirted so we used that scholarship to get him.
However your correct it was 11-12 players. I believe in 2008 or 2009 we suffered our 2 scholly loss because of APR so that is factored in a little as well.

We still 11-12 vs. 10 and that extra player or two is depth. This roster right now doesn't have depth because we didn't recruit an extra guy when we could. We could use an extra big right now.

It seems that the 11th guy tends to be a player who never sees the court much. Mookie and Riley are examples.

Chino fits that role currently. Diagne being declared ineligible so late has something to do with that though. I think the coaches are targeting and landing the right number of recruits. I think it fits in with what they've always done and It's my guess that a lot of other programs don't carry more than 10 or 11 guys.

 

[Alsacs]

It seems that the 11th guy tends to be a player who never sees the court much. Mookie and Riley are examples.

Chino fits that role currently. Diagne being declared ineligible so late has something to do with that though. I think the coaches are targeting and landing the right number of recruits. I think it fits in with what they've always done and It's my guess that a lot of other programs don't carry more than 10 or 11 guys.

Diagne is a great point I forgot about him. He is that missing big. Good take from your side I can understand the other side to mine in this debate. I just wish we had another body now and with the sanctions it will be a couple of years unless Roberson/Joseph one of them leaves and we get Thompson and/or someone else.

 

[TheCusian]

Along with not using them all there have been far too many recruiting misses as well. Elite and top tier programs shouldn't be in this situation.

You think we're an elite program?