Another negative view from the outside | Syracusefan.com

Another negative view from the outside

anomander

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I will be the first to admit that I am extremely worried about this season, and there are an abundance of red flags, but I still don't think things are as bad as the outside sees us. Here is just another example of how people outside Syracuse New York view our football program. Perception matters.

David Hale ESPN

Is Syracuse at the bottom of the ACC?

SB Nation has its 2015 season preview for Syracuse up, and while certainly there’s still some time for the Orange to improve before the first game kicks off in September, the big takeaway here is: It’s going to be ugly.

On the upside, Syracuse returns four starters on the offensive line and has had a very good (albeit underrated) defense in each of the past two seasons. But even those positives come with an asterisk. Syracuse’s best lineman is gone, and virtually every significant starter on D is, too.

And regardless of that defensive turnover, so many of the questions still revolve around the offense, as SB Nation notes:

Syracuse finished 2012 with one of the hottest offenses in the country and ranked 32nd in Off. S&P+ for the season. It fell to 88th in 2013, then 110th last year.

Now, it’s important to remember Syracuse shuffled through quarterbacks and offensive coordinators last season, so it’s no surprise the numbers were bad. But the problem is, the numbers were really bad. And while a healthy Terrel Huntoffers a glimmer of hope, there’s also this: In his career against Power 5 teams with a winning record, Hunt has averaged 5.7 yards-per-attempt with three touchdowns and 12 INTs.

ACC previewor our ACC power rankings, and there’s widespread agreement that Syracuse is at best marginally better than Wake Forest and, at worst, the black hole of the conference. Jockeying for position with rebuilding Wake Forest isn’t exactly a spot anyone wants to be.

SB Nation goes into much more detail on the struggles the Orange are likely to endure, and it makes a rather substantive case for a four to five-win campaign. So what are the odds we’re all wrong?

Looking at the schedule, it’s tough to see. If Hunt struggles and the defense needs time to rebuild, a 2-10 season seems possible. If all goes right, the offense looks better and the defense doesn’t miss a beat, 7-5 wouldn’t be impossible.

But it’s tough to find too much enthusiasm even for the high-water mark. It was just two years ago that Syracuse got to seven wins, but there was a lot of bad football played since then, and many of the most crucial players in that run are gone. That seven wins would even feel like a momentous achievement speaks to the perception of the Orange at the moment.

Even compare Syracuse to Wake, and things don’t look great. The Deacons’ defense was pretty good last year, too -- only they return key talents like Ryan Janvion, Brandon Chubb and Marquel Lee. The ugly stats at Wake last year were expected during a rebuild, while Syracuse’s problems presented an image of a program headed in the wrong direction. On the recruiting trail, Wake inked its best class in years, while Syracuse checked in at No. 63 in ESPN’s final rankings.

In other words, what Syracuse needs as much as health at quarterback and answers on D is an injection of excitement. Maybe that comes from Hunt or emerging receiver Steve Ishmael or talented defensive end Ron Thompson. Maybe the recruiting brings some long-term prosperity, like the addition of Rex Culpepper this week. Maybe something magical happens and Syracuse pulls an upset over LSU at the Dome in late September, setting off a run of wins we never could've predicted. Maybe.

Right now though, it’s tough to find a lot of enthusiasm for the 2015 Orange or to develop a cohesive explanation of why the numbers are all wrong.
 
anomander said:
I will be the first to admit that I am extremely worried about this season, and there are an abundance of red flags, but I still don't think things are as bad as the outside sees us. Here is just another example of how people outside Syracuse New York view our football program. Perception matters. David Hale ESPN Is Syracuse at the bottom of the ACC? SB Nation has its 2015 season preview for Syracuse up, and while certainly there’s still some time for the Orange to improve before the first game kicks off in September, the big takeaway here is: It’s going to be ugly. On the upside, Syracuse returns four starters on the offensive line and has had a very good (albeit underrated) defense in each of the past two seasons. But even those positives come with an asterisk. Syracuse’s best lineman is gone, and virtually every significant starter on D is, too. And regardless of that defensive turnover, so many of the questions still revolve around the offense, as SB Nation notes: Syracuse finished 2012 with one of the hottest offenses in the country and ranked 32nd in Off. S&P+ for the season. It fell to 88th in 2013, then 110th last year. Now, it’s important to remember Syracuse shuffled through quarterbacks and offensive coordinators last season, so it’s no surprise the numbers were bad. But the problem is, the numbers were really bad. And while a healthy Terrel Huntoffers a glimmer of hope, there’s also this: In his career against Power 5 teams with a winning record, Hunt has averaged 5.7 yards-per-attempt with three touchdowns and 12 INTs. ACC previewor our ACC power rankings, and there’s widespread agreement that Syracuse is at best marginally better than Wake Forest and, at worst, the black hole of the conference. Jockeying for position with rebuilding Wake Forest isn’t exactly a spot anyone wants to be. SB Nation goes into much more detail on the struggles the Orange are likely to endure, and it makes a rather substantive case for a four to five-win campaign. So what are the odds we’re all wrong? Looking at the schedule, it’s tough to see. If Hunt struggles and the defense needs time to rebuild, a 2-10 season seems possible. If all goes right, the offense looks better and the defense doesn’t miss a beat, 7-5 wouldn’t be impossible. But it’s tough to find too much enthusiasm even for the high-water mark. It was just two years ago that Syracuse got to seven wins, but there was a lot of bad football played since then, and many of the most crucial players in that run are gone. That seven wins would even feel like a momentous achievement speaks to the perception of the Orange at the moment. Even compare Syracuse to Wake, and things don’t look great. The Deacons’ defense was pretty good last year, too -- only they return key talents like Ryan Janvion, Brandon Chubb and Marquel Lee. The ugly stats at Wake last year were expected during a rebuild, while Syracuse’s problems presented an image of a program headed in the wrong direction. On the recruiting trail, Wake inked its best class in years, while Syracuse checked in at No. 63 in ESPN’s final rankings. In other words, what Syracuse needs as much as health at quarterback and answers on D is an injection of excitement. Maybe that comes from Hunt or emerging receiver Steve Ishmael or talented defensive end Ron Thompson. Maybe the recruiting brings some long-term prosperity, like the addition of Rex Culpepper this week. Maybe something magical happens and Syracuse pulls an upset over LSU at the Dome in late September, setting off a run of wins we never could've predicted. Maybe. Right now though, it’s tough to find a lot of enthusiasm for the 2015 Orange or to develop a cohesive explanation of why the numbers are all wrong.

Yeah. I don't agree with his conclusion - but I do see how he could come to it. It's really hard for outsiders to see any good from that 3-9.

I honestly think this season will look more like the first Shafer season than it will the last one...
 
Very superficial analysis. No mention of the depth of our injuries or the mid-season change in OC's. Sometimes I think half these writers simply retool other writers' work.
 
What I don't get is how one crappy team (WF) is "rebuilding" while the other crappy team (Cuse) is a "black hole".

And yet, the black hole smoked the rebuilding team last year.

Perception is a strange bird.

We beat them 30-7 with a true frosh AJ Long at the helm. WF put a 91 yard TD drive on us... and 79 yards the rest of the game combined.

I get looking at the standings and thinking SU and WF are similar but it was truly worlds apart on the field. It could be worse, we could be Wake.
 
The thing that scares me is that unless Hunt has a monster year, I think our offense will really struggle. Our backs are average, at best. Don't think they would start for 80% of the teams in the league. I like where the recruiting is going. But we really need 6 wins this year.
 
The thing that scares me is that unless Hunt has a monster year, I think our offense will really struggle. Our backs are average, at best. Don't think they would start for 80% of the teams in the league. I like where the recruiting is going. But we really need 6 wins this year.

On the other hand freshman running backs can start and star in college football. Perhaps Dontae will be such a RB for us? Still believe our main problem on offense will be at WR. If I'm the opposing D I double Ishmael until someone else proves they can beat you deep.

Cheers,
Neil
 
ignore all the preseason crap and just wait until the chinstraps are snapped on the helmets for the opening game and then wait to see what week 2 brings for improvements all the rest is for the rookies on the sidelines
 
SU won three games last year. That's pretty much all the "outsider" cares about. It's not like they really know the team either way.
 
DocFlanders said:
What I don't get is how one crappy team (WF) is "rebuilding" while the other crappy team (Cuse) is a "black hole". And yet, the black hole smoked the rebuilding team last year. Perception is a strange bird.

You missed the "Addazzio has BC on the rise" fluff piece. It was like 'sure they didn't win that much but they did beat USC' and they 'probably won't win a lot this year because they are retooling a lot of positions" ... But they are on the rise.
 
You missed the "Addazzio has BC on the rise" fluff piece. It was like 'sure they didn't win that much but they did beat USC' and they 'probably won't win a lot this year because they are retooling a lot of positions" ... But they are on the rise.

If you are talking about the Bill C preview-that's not what he said. He said BC was expected to rebuild last year (which most on this board thought as well), but that making a bowl game last year means if they step back this year, it's not as harsh to swallow. Most of us at this time last year were counting the BC game as a definite Cuse win because they were down numbers and replacing their top QB, WR, and oh yeah that Heisman finalist.

BC is absolutely moving forward from the Spaz era under Addazio.
 
You missed the "Addazzio has BC on the rise" fluff piece. It was like 'sure they didn't win that much but they did beat USC' and they 'probably won't win a lot this year because they are retooling a lot of positions" ... But they are on the rise.

Honestly I see BC as a team on the rise. They have an identity, and developed a culture. Addazzio took a risk and trimmed a lot of fat off last years roster and got away with it. Like you said he has a signature wins, and have been competitive in every single game he has coached. I think I know who you would chose, but if you had the choice would you rather have their results, or ours, and would you rather be them entering this season, or Syracuse? If i'm being objective I don't see how anyone can say Syracuse is in better shape entering this year then they are?
 
Honestly I see BC as a team on the rise. They have an identity, and developed a culture. Addazzio took a risk and trimmed a lot of fat off last years roster and got away with it. Like you said he has a signature wins, and have been competitive in every single game he has coached. I think I know who you would chose, but if you had the choice would you rather have their results, or ours, and would you rather be them entering this season, or Syracuse? If i'm being objective I don't see how anyone can say Syracuse is in better shape entering this year then they are?
We play them t home. And that ain't bad.
 
If you are talking about the Bill C preview-that's not what he said. He said BC was expected to rebuild last year (which most on this board thought as well), but that making a bowl game last year means if they step back this year, it's not as harsh to swallow. Most of us at this time last year were counting the BC game as a definite Cuse win because they were down numbers and replacing their top QB, WR, and oh yeah that Heisman finalist.

BC is absolutely moving forward from the Spaz era under Addazio.

Totally agree. I was definitely one of the ones that thought they would be rebuilding last year, especially after they dropped a bunch of kids and entered the year with about 65 scholarship players. Sure they returned their whole OL, but they lost a ton of other key positions, including a Heisman finalists, and a very good college quarterback. I don't think there was anybody who thought Tyler Murphy would step in and play like he did. He was basically chased out of UF. I credit the easy transition to them having an established identity for what they wanted to do on that side of the ball.
 
Quite frankly, the Cuse deserves all the negativity after last seasons debacle. With that being said, I don't give a rats ass what people are saying/predicting about this years team for all I want is for the 2015 season to begin and go from there. Screw them all and Go Orange!
 
Full_Rebar said:
If you are talking about the Bill C preview-that's not what he said. He said BC was expected to rebuild last year (which most on this board thought as well), but that making a bowl game last year means if they step back this year, it's not as harsh to swallow. Most of us at this time last year were counting the BC game as a definite Cuse win because they were down numbers and replacing their top QB, WR, and oh yeah that Heisman finalist. BC is absolutely moving forward from the Spaz era under Addazio.

No - Bill is usually spot on. I'm talking about ESPN's piece from today or yesterday.

Moving forward, sure. But the distance between BC, Wake, and Syracuse this year is being vastly overblown, IMO.
 
anomander said:
Honestly I see BC as a team on the rise. They have an identity, and developed a culture. Addazzio took a risk and trimmed a lot of fat off last years roster and got away with it. Like you said he has a signature wins, and have been competitive in every single game he has coached. I think I know who you would chose, but if you had the choice would you rather have their results, or ours, and would you rather be them entering this season, or Syracuse? If i'm being objective I don't see how anyone can say Syracuse is in better shape entering this year then they are?

I'd take our first season and their second ;). I'm not arguing that the perception isn't correct - I'm saying its overblown.

If they win 3 games this year and we win 7, does that change your view?

I also don't buy the identity thing. We have one - hard hitting, aggressive defense. It's been 6 years. Our offense took a hit thanks to the bad hire - but I'd bet we'll have an identity by mid-season on offense.
 
anomander said:
Totally agree. I was definitely one of the ones that thought they would be rebuilding last year, especially after they dropped a bunch of kids and entered the year with about 65 scholarship players. Sure they returned their whole OL, but they lost a ton of other key positions, including a Heisman finalists, and a very good college quarterback. I don't think there was anybody who thought Tyler Murphy would step in and play like he did. He was basically chased out of UF. I credit the easy transition to them having an established identity for what they wanted to do on that side of the ball.

Yep. They did what we didn't - hired the right OC.

I think they dip back this year.
 
I'd take our first season and their second ;). I'm not arguing that the perception isn't correct - I'm saying its overblown.

If they win 3 games this year and we win 7, does that change your view?

I also don't buy the identity thing. We have one - hard hitting, aggressive defense. It's been 6 years. Our offense took a hit thanks to the bad hire - but I'd bet we'll have an identity by mid-season on offense.

Oh I think the article was totally over blown as well. Things aren't as bad as Hale made it sound.

And if we win 7, and them 3, it most definitely changes my view. I hope that happens, but am skeptical, especially considering our schedules.
 
anomander said:
Oh I think the article was totally over blown as well. Things aren't as bad as Hale made it sound. And if we win 7, and them 3, it most definitely changes my view. I hope that happens, but am skeptical, especially considering our schedules.

Interested in how you see the first 6 games going...

I'm optimistic that we go 5-1. Then our annual rock fights with peer schools in NC State, Pitt, and BC.
 
Interested in how you see the first 6 games going... I'm optimistic that we go 5-1. Then our annual rock fights with peer schools in NC State, Pitt, and BC.
Definitely 5 winnable games. Have to have 4, but wouldn't be shocked if it's 3. If it's 2 HCSS should be fired after game 6.

If I had to bet id go with 4.
 
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The thing that scares me is that unless Hunt has a monster year, I think our offense will really struggle. Our backs are average, at best. Don't think they would start for 80% of the teams in the league. I like where the recruiting is going. But we really need 6 wins this year.
Agree 100%. If Hunt isn't a superstar then this season is just going to be a carry over from last season. It's gonna be like last season never ended
 
Agree 100%. If Hunt isn't a superstar then this season is just going to be a carry over from last season. It's gonna be like last season never ended

First, dismantle Rhode Island. No double overtime like Villanova. Then if statistics are correct as you improve more from the first game to the second, win the second game big and go on from there. They need to preach this to those kids. Kill or be killed kind of.
 

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