Are we really just Providence, SHU, or BC

[PoppyHart]

but got really lucky that JB stuck around?

Watching the SHU-Xavier game tonight, I was thinking "what would this program have looked like if PJ decided he wanted to settle down there"? I had a front row seat, literally, during their heyday, and the program was becoming an earlier version of UCONN. There is no disputing that SHU had the momentum, NYC pipeline, and Big East cred behind it. Sure it's South Orange, but its 15 miles or so from Manhattan.

Similarly, what if Pitino decided he loved Providence so much he could never leave, or Gary Williams mistakenly thought Boston was a great city?

None of those programs have have sustained excellence since. SHU made the Sweet 16 under Amaker (as a 10 seed over Temple I believe), Providence won a Big East title in '94 and had a moment of glory under Gillen in '97 or '98, and BC had mild success under Skinner.

Hopefully JB's successor is able to buck the trend. Other than the Carrier Dome, I'm not sure what other tail winds we have vis-a-vis those three, especially if you were to time warp back 25-30 years. I suppose the money has changed, though BC has the same income stream as us.

 

[Briancuse]

but got really lucky that JB stuck around?

Watching the SHU-Xavier game tonight, I was thinking "what would this program have looked like if PJ decided he wanted to settle down there"? I had a front row seat, literally, during their heyday, and the program was becoming an earlier version of UCONN. There is no disputing that SHU had the momentum, NYC pipeline, and Big East cred behind it. Sure it's South Orange, but its 15 miles or so from Manhattan.

Similarly, what if Pitino decided he loved Providence so much he could never leave, or Gary Williams mistakenly thought Boston was a great city?

None of those programs have have sustained excellence since. SHU made the Sweet 16 under Amaker (as a 10 seed over Temple I believe), Providence won a Big East title in '94 and had a moment of glory under Gillen in '97 or '98, and BC had mild success under Skinner.

Hopefully JB's successor is able to buck the trend. Other than the Carrier Dome, I'm not sure what other tail winds we have vis-a-vis those three, especially if you were to time warp back 25-30 years. I suppose the money has changed, though BC has the same income stream as us.

The Dome, the Melo center, history, being the only show in town, we have a lot going for us.

 

[CaptainJ]

but got really lucky that JB stuck around?

Watching the SHU-Xavier game tonight, I was thinking "what would this program have looked like if PJ decided he wanted to settle down there"? I had a front row seat, literally, during their heyday, and the program was becoming an earlier version of UCONN. There is no disputing that SHU had the momentum, NYC pipeline, and Big East cred behind it. Sure it's South Orange, but its 15 miles or so from Manhattan.

Similarly, what if Pitino decided he loved Providence so much he could never leave, or Gary Williams mistakenly thought Boston was a great city?

None of those programs have have sustained excellence since. SHU made the Sweet 16 under Amaker (as a 10 seed over Temple I believe), Providence won a Big East title in '94 and had a moment of glory under Gillen in '97 or '98, and BC had mild success under Skinner.

Hopefully JB's successor is able to buck the trend. Other than the Carrier Dome, I'm not sure what other tail winds we have vis-a-vis those three, especially if you were to time warp back 25-30 years. I suppose the money has changed, though BC has the same income stream as us.

I know this isn't where you were going, but I wanted to say it: Just thinking of the coaches in the Big East back in the day can put a smile on one's face. It was like an all star team, and they weren't just good, but colorful as well. I'm not sure how many other conferences with a single digit number of teams could ever boast such a lineup.

 

[cuseattle]

I know this isn't where you were going, but I wanted to say it: Just thinking of the coaches in the Big East back in the day can put a smile on one's face. It was like an all star team, and they weren't just good, but colorful as well. I'm not sure how many other conferences with a single digit number of teams could ever boast such a lineup.

Jimmy, Rollie, Louis, Big John, PJ, Gary Williams, Jim Calhoun, Pittino... all at the same time! Edit-maybe not Williams in the heyday.

 

[CusefanATL]

but got really lucky that JB stuck around?

Watching the SHU-Xavier game tonight, I was thinking "what would this program have looked like if PJ decided he wanted to settle down there"? I had a front row seat, literally, during their heyday, and the program was becoming an earlier version of UCONN. There is no disputing that SHU had the momentum, NYC pipeline, and Big East cred behind it. Sure it's South Orange, but its 15 miles or so from Manhattan.

Similarly, what if Pitino decided he loved Providence so much he could never leave, or Gary Williams mistakenly thought Boston was a great city?

None of those programs have have sustained excellence since. SHU made the Sweet 16 under Amaker (as a 10 seed over Temple I believe), Providence won a Big East title in '94 and had a moment of glory under Gillen in '97 or '98, and BC had mild success under Skinner.

Hopefully JB's successor is able to buck the trend. Other than the Carrier Dome, I'm not sure what other tail winds we have vis-a-vis those three, especially if you were to time warp back 25-30 years. I suppose the money has changed, though BC has the same income stream as us.

duke got lucky with K

 

[STEVEHOLT]

but got really lucky that JB stuck around?

Watching the SHU-Xavier game tonight, I was thinking "what would this program have looked like if PJ decided he wanted to settle down there"? I had a front row seat, literally, during their heyday, and the program was becoming an earlier version of UCONN. There is no disputing that SHU had the momentum, NYC pipeline, and Big East cred behind it. Sure it's South Orange, but its 15 miles or so from Manhattan.

Similarly, what if Pitino decided he loved Providence so much he could never leave, or Gary Williams mistakenly thought Boston was a great city?

None of those programs have have sustained excellence since. SHU made the Sweet 16 under Amaker (as a 10 seed over Temple I believe), Providence won a Big East title in '94 and had a moment of glory under Gillen in '97 or '98, and BC had mild success under Skinner.

Hopefully JB's successor is able to buck the trend. Other than the Carrier Dome, I'm not sure what other tail winds we have vis-a-vis those three, especially if you were to time warp back 25-30 years. I suppose the money has changed, though BC has the same income stream as us.

We wish we were Providence or Seton Hall right now.

 

[orangecuse]

duke got lucky with K

No doubt. Can play the 'ol 'what if' game all night long...

 

[cuseguy]

JB caught a nice wave. He took over a team that went to the Final 4, played in a nice facility at the time, Manley Field House, then moved into the Dome 4 years later. Perfect storm.

 

[dasher]

We wish we were Providence or Seton Hall right now.

Really? For one year? No way do I wish we were the Hall or P.C.

 

[OrangeDW]

We wish we were Providence or Seton Hall right now.

Yet another brilliant negative post. Wow, they're slightly better than us for one year. We should be so jealous!

 

[orangecuse]

JB caught a nice wave. He took over a team that went to the Final 4, played in a nice facility at the time, Manley Field House, then moved into the Dome 4 years later. Perfect storm.

If a nice wave equates to Perfect Storm, is that the equivalent of a scenic iceberg and the Titanic?

 

[FrancoPizza]

but got really lucky that JB stuck around?

Watching the SHU-Xavier game tonight, I was thinking "what would this program have looked like if PJ decided he wanted to settle down there"? I had a front row seat, literally, during their heyday, and the program was becoming an earlier version of UCONN. There is no disputing that SHU had the momentum, NYC pipeline, and Big East cred behind it. Sure it's South Orange, but its 15 miles or so from Manhattan.

Similarly, what if Pitino decided he loved Providence so much he could never leave, or Gary Williams mistakenly thought Boston was a great city?

None of those programs have have sustained excellence since. SHU made the Sweet 16 under Amaker (as a 10 seed over Temple I believe), Providence won a Big East title in '94 and had a moment of glory under Gillen in '97 or '98, and BC had mild success under Skinner.

Hopefully JB's successor is able to buck the trend. Other than the Carrier Dome, I'm not sure what other tail winds we have vis-a-vis those three, especially if you were to time warp back 25-30 years. I suppose the money has changed, though BC has the same income stream as us.

I don't consider myself lucky to miss the NCAA 4 out of 10 years. The inferiority complex, really, is the only anchor weighing down this program. Put it this way, we have a LOT more to fall back on than Duke when K leaves. I think SU has not even come close to its ceiling given the resources we have. Whether hop is the man to take us to new heights remains to be seen, however.

 

[pfister1]

I don't consider myself lucky to miss the NCAA 4 out of 10 years. The inferiority complex, really, is the only anchor weighing down this program. Put it this way, we have a LOT more to fall back on than Duke when K leaves. I think SU has not even come close to its ceiling given the resources we have. Whether hop is the man to take us to new heights remains to be seen, however.

What resources do we have?? What are you talking about?

What do we have over Duke? Certainly not tradition or achievement. Do you really think that the Dome is an advantage over Cameron? Attendance doesn't mean crap. The real money is coming from TV rights not a gate. Cameron provides a better home court advantage than does our 30K mausoleum. In terms of recruiting I would be willing to bet that kids are just as taken with the idea of playing in Cameron as they are playing in the Dome. It just appeals in a different way.

I don't know what kind of practice facility Duke has, but its not like they are outside playing on concrete with chain nets. And while the Melo center appears nice, and is certainly a HUGE upgrade on Manley or the Dome or wherever we were practicing before, I am not convinced that it is a huge upgrade on what the competition has available to it.

I think your characterizations of all of the resources that we have at our disposal greatly over estimates how those resources compare to what our competition has available to it...especially if your comparison is to Duke, UNC, Louisville, UVA etc. and not to Seton Hall, Providence and St. Johns.

 

[OrangeDW]

I don't consider myself lucky to miss the NCAA 4 out of 10 years. The inferiority complex, really, is the only anchor weighing down this program. Put it this way, we have a LOT more to fall back on than Duke when K leaves. I think SU has not even come close to its ceiling given the resources we have. Whether hop is the man to take us to new heights remains to be seen, however.

We also pretty much lived in the top 10 for a 5 year stretch and got to #1 several times, made a final four, etc. Sure, 4 out of 10...but if you back up a little further we've made it 10 out of 14 and won a NC.

Reality is we've been doing the "down year" or two, followed by 4-5 very strong years for a while now, going back to the 90s. I think we'll be pretty strong next year. Our freshmen class this year is our best one since Waiters-Melo-Fair at the least.

 

[OrangeDW]

What resources do we have?? What are you talking about?

What do we have over Duke? Certainly not tradition or achievement. Do you really think that the Dome is an advantage over Cameron? Attendance doesn't mean crap. The real money is coming from TV rights not a gate. Cameron provides a better home court advantage than does our 30K mausoleum. In terms of recruiting I would be willing to bet that kids are just as taken with the idea of playing in Cameron as they are playing in the Dome. It just appeals in a different way.

I don't know what kind of practice facility Duke has, but its not like they are outside playing on concrete with chain nets. And while the Melo center appears nice, and is certainly a HUGE upgrade on Manley or the Dome or wherever we were practicing before, I am not convinced that it is a huge upgrade on what the competition has available to it.

I think your characterizations of all of the resources that we have at our disposal greatly over estimates how those resources compare to what our competition has available to it...especially if your comparison is to Duke, UNC, Louisville, UVA etc. and not to Seton Hall, Providence and St. Johns.

I agree with you on Duke and other elite programs. We don't have better "resources" than them. At the same time, we've got great facilities, a lot of cache as a basketball power, and we're still the place you go to if you want to play in front of the most people. Hard to get too worried big picture wise, when we've got those things going for us.

 

[OrangeDW]

What resources do we have?? What are you talking about?

What do we have over Duke? Certainly not tradition or achievement. Do you really think that the Dome is an advantage over Cameron? Attendance doesn't mean crap. The real money is coming from TV rights not a gate. Cameron provides a better home court advantage than does our 30K mausoleum. In terms of recruiting I would be willing to bet that kids are just as taken with the idea of playing in Cameron as they are playing in the Dome. It just appeals in a different way.

I don't know what kind of practice facility Duke has, but its not like they are outside playing on concrete with chain nets. And while the Melo center appears nice, and is certainly a HUGE upgrade on Manley or the Dome or wherever we were practicing before, I am not convinced that it is a huge upgrade on what the competition has available to it.

I think your characterizations of all of the resources that we have at our disposal greatly over estimates how those resources compare to what our competition has available to it...especially if your comparison is to Duke, UNC, Louisville, UVA etc. and not to Seton Hall, Providence and St. Johns.

I agree with you on Duke and other elite programs. We don't have better "resources" than them. At the same time, we've got great facilities, a lot of cache as a basketball power, and we're still the place you go to if you want to play in front of the most people. Hard to get too worried big picture wise, when we've got those things going for us.

 

[AlaskaSU]

All the top programs have name coaches, iconic home courts, modern practice facilities and large fan bases. The new battleground is residential facilities that treat players like royalty, with resident cooks, barbers, plush lounges, etc. In that race we are way behind Kansas and Kentucky, etc, and we have no plans on the books to upgrade. The recruiting race did not end with the Melo Center. New investment is always needed. The battle never ends but it appears that we may be retreating. To stay competitive the Dome needs an upgrade and we need dedicated residential facilities. If we do not make these expenditures we will be at a disadvantage compared to the top echelon that we allegedly want to join.

 

[raf4488]

I feel like you could say this about pretty much any program, really. SU hoops is successful because there is strong support from a large fanbase, and the athletic department invests a lot in the program.

The consensus is that if SU chose to do so, they could attract a top-level head coach to the program after JB retires. The program has to have a lot more than a great coach with longevity in order for that to be true

 

[HoustonCuse]

This place is getting unbearabable! We haven't even been left out or knocked out of the tournament yet and we're neck deep in the self loathing manic depressive season of posts. Let's all agree on a few basic points: Syracuse is all-time great or they are BC. Our facilities are world class or a smoldering wreckage. Our program is on the verge of taking off or is simply a product of getting 1900 or so lucky wins. Hopkins sucks. Hopkins is great. Boeheim is the worst ever or a genius. We are doomed. We are blessed. Trends are bullish. We are in a slow motion drive off a cliff. Anything I missed?

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Yet another brilliant negative post. Wow, they're slightly better than us for one year. We should be so jealous!

Once again you got it backwards troll. The negativism is coming from the OP and others on this board who give other programs zero respect year after year and it comes back to bite them.

What wrong with Seton Hall and PC? They are good programs with solid histories. Who are we to dump on other programs like we are UNC or Kansas?

The myopia on this board is a symptom of a societal disease at large.

This year I've seen threads about how Dixon has lead Pitt into a "dumpster fire of a season" (how'd that work out)
Every year , multiple times a year, I've read about how Uconn is a now a second rate program and are trending to irrelevance, yet all they do is win and are certainly relevant despite being in that conference.

Im not saying you have to like these programs, and some of the knocks against them are in fun and part of fandom, however a modicum of respect for them should be in order.

 

[OrangeDW]

Once again you got it backwards troll. The negativism is coming from the OP and others on this board who give other programs zero respect year after year and it comes back to bite them.

What wrong with Seton Hall and PC? They are good programs with solid histories. Who are we to dump on other programs like we are UNC or Kansas?

The myopia on this board is a symptom of a societal disease at large.

This year I've seen threads about how Dixon has lead Pitt into a "dumpster fire of a season" (how'd that work out)
Every year , multiple times a year, I've read about how Uconn is a now a second rate program and are trending to irrelevance, yet all they do is win and are certainly relevant despite being in that conference.

Im not saying you have to like these programs, and some of the knocks against them are in fun and part of fandom, however a modicum of respect for them should be in order.

UConn and Pitt, fine. But that has nothing to do with this post and you know that, troll. It's merely another weak attempt by you to sidetrack and backpeddle. So...NOPE. Back on track...

We can absolutely look down on Seton Hall and Providence's programs if we want to, because we are almost always better than them(usually by a lot) and we almost always beat them.

This will be Seton Hall's 4th NCAA tournament in the 2000's. Syracuse is 48-16 against them.

This will be Providence's 5th NCAA tournament in the 2000's(3rd in a row, though). Syracuse is 48-10 against them.

So you can take your lame "we wish we were them" troll attempt and stuff it.