Backup point

[cuseguy]

I asked Mike Waters tonight in the chat why SU didn't recruit a suitable backup point guard this year to fill in for Ennis. Waters said they pursued several guards but that's hard to convince a high level kid to accept a backup role. I wish I had followed by asking why they didn't go after a lower profile prospect who'd be willing to serve as a backup. He added that the coaches thought Patterson could be a combo guard but he's not. Well, I saw Patterson play last year, and I could have told them he wasn't a combo guard. SU has to be the only top 20-25 team without a quality backup point. I don't consider Mike G the answer here.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

We don't have a backup point guard. Ennis is going to break a record for freshman minutes.

I actually feel ok about this, to be honest.

 

[cuseguy]

I love Ennis. I'm just worried about fouls and possible injury. We're in trouble if Mike G has to play long-term minutes.

Backup point and outside shooting remain my biggest concerns.

 

[orangedave]

I asked Mike Waters tonight in the chat why SU didn't recruit a suitable backup point guard this year to fill in for Ennis. Waters said they pursued several guards but that's hard to convince a high level kid to accept a backup role. I wish I had followed by asking why they didn't go after a lower profile prospect who'd be willing to serve as a backup. He added that the coaches thought Patterson could be a combo guard but he's not. Well, I saw Patterson play last year, and I could have told them he wasn't a combo guard. SU has to be the only top 20-25 team without a quality backup point. I don't consider Mike G the answer here.

Mike covered this a little better in his "Mailbag" on 10/11

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/index.ssf/2013/10/mikes_mailbox_why_didnt_syracu.html

 

[cuseguy]

Mike covered this a little better in his "Mailbag" on 10/11

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/index.ssf/2013/10/mikes_mailbox_why_didnt_syracu.html

That is a better explanation. Too bad they couldn't have found a true combo guard.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

I asked Mike Waters tonight in the chat why SU didn't recruit a suitable backup point guard this year to fill in for Ennis. Waters said they pursued several guards but that's hard to convince a high level kid to accept a backup role. I wish I had followed by asking why they didn't go after a lower profile prospect who'd be willing to serve as a backup. He added that the coaches thought Patterson could be a combo guard but he's not. Well, I saw Patterson play last year, and I could have told them he wasn't a combo guard. SU has to be the only top 20-25 team without a quality backup point. I don't consider Mike G the answer here.

Antonio Barton seemed like such a perfect fit. I don't know why we didn't put the full court press on him.

 

[albanycuse]

Antonio Barton seemed like such a perfect fit. I don't know why we didn't put the full court press on him.

I doubt he'd want to play back up to a freshman.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

I doubt he'd want to play back up to a freshman.

Good point... Anyone know how serious we were about Barton? I mean Boeheim could sell him on a National Title and preach about Dion, JSouth, Scoop, KJo coming off the bench for him in recent yrs.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Good point... Anyone know how serious we were about Barton? I mean Boeheim could sell him on a National Title and preach about Dion, JSouth, Scoop, KJo coming off the bench for him in recent yrs.

Only fans think like that. He's a senior. Still has dreams and aspirations of the NBA. He doesn't want to transfer to a place to sit behind a freshman

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[General20]

I asked Mike Waters tonight in the chat why SU didn't recruit a suitable backup point guard this year to fill in for Ennis. Waters said they pursued several guards but that's hard to convince a high level kid to accept a backup role. I wish I had followed by asking why they didn't go after a lower profile prospect who'd be willing to serve as a backup. He added that the coaches thought Patterson could be a combo guard but he's not. Well, I saw Patterson play last year, and I could have told them he wasn't a combo guard. SU has to be the only top 20-25 team without a quality backup point. I don't consider Mike G the answer here.

Boeheim went after Burton who would have been perfect, but he was not interested in playing five minutes a game in his last year in college when he could start someplace else (who can blame him).

But don't worry. Gbinije, Patterson, Cooney or just about anybody else can bring the ball up when there is no pressure, and Boeheim traditionally likes to use forwards to break the press. Have you noticed how well Fair is handling the ball right now? He is ready to do that.

Syracuse is going to be fine without Ennis, they will be worse offensively, but better defensively, and we are only talking about a few minutes a game in the most important games.

 

[RF2044]

Good point... Anyone know how serious we were about Barton? I mean Boeheim could sell him on a National Title and preach about Dion, JSouth, Scoop, KJo coming off the bench for him in recent yrs.

Very serious. Not only was Barton a combo guard who could play point, he was also a pretty good three point shooter. Both of those attributes would have helped shore up big on-paper team weaknesses. Oh well.

This situation at backup point guard reminds me a LOT of 96-97, when the only PG on the roster was a freshman [Jason Hart], and the only player capable of being his backup was a G/ [Jason Cipolla]. Sound familiar? Any minutes we got from Cipolla were pure stop gap, and JB picked his spots about when to situationally use him to get Hart as much "real time" [versus game clock] time rest, while still having him on the floor as much as possible.

The good news is that I think Ennis is much more prepared to contribute than Hart was that year, and the talent around him is much better than the 96-97 team. And my guess is that JB will again pick his spots to put the ball in Gbinije's hands to minimize the amount of time that actually happens in big games. Ennis is going to have to be an iron man.

 

[longtimefan]

Boeheim went after Burton who would have been perfect, but he was not interested in playing five minutes a game in his last year in college when he could start someplace else (who can blame him).

But don't worry. Gbinije, Patterson, Cooney or just about anybody else can bring the ball up when there is no pressure, and Boeheim traditionally likes to use forwards to break the press. Have you noticed how well Fair is handling the ball right now? He is ready to do that.

Syracuse is going to be fine without Ennis, they will be worse offensively, but better defensively, and we are only talking about a few minutes a game in the most important games.

They will be able to handle full-court pressure while Ennis is on the bench. Whether they will be able to run a half-court offense while he rests is more of a question.

 

[moqui]

I'm betting that by the time the season is in full swing, it will end up being Cooney rotating to the one for 4 to 6 minutes per game, and the third guard will be strictly a 2

 

[rrlbees]

If teams are pressuring hard m2m and Ennis is on the bench, look for Grant and eventually Roberson also, bringing it up. JB has often done this in the past with good ball handling forwards.


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[anomander]

If teams are pressuring hard m2m and Ennis is on the bench, look for Grant and eventually Roberson also, bringing it up. JB has often done this in the past with good ball handling forwards.

Todd Burgan, and John Wallace come to mind...I don't think Roberson has the handle to do that at this time, and can't see that from Grant.

I was a wreck last season every time MCW drove to the lane and came down in traffic, and that was with Triche...I can't imagine my anxiety this season with Ennis. We have played with fire far too often recently, and won. We are due to get burned soon. Ennis goes down and our season is over

 

[RF2044]

Todd Burgan, and John Wallace come to mind...I don't think Roberson has the handle to do that at this time, and can't see that from Grant.

I was a wreck last season every time MCW drove to the lane and came down in traffic, and that was with Triche...I can't imagine my anxiety this season with Ennis. We have played with fire far too often recently, and won. We are due to get burned soon. Ennis goes down and our season is over

Based upon what I've seen, both Grant and Roberson have pretty good handles for players their size. I know that both are relatively unproven right now, but I think they'll both do better than what you suggest. And CJ appears to be looking to put the ball on the floor more, as well.

Now, are any of them capable of chipping in to share ball handling responsibilities a la Ryan Blackwell? Stay tuned...

 

[iommi]

I'm starting to think that Buss may be our third best guard. G has looked sloppy and is clearly out of position. BJ looks like a future player but is not there yet. Buss has a positive energy when he's in the game and looks like he has a confidence about him that G lacks.


We don't have a backup point guard but I hope Buss gets a look.

 

[anomander]

Based upon what I've seen, both Grant and Roberson have pretty good handles for players their size. I know that both are relatively unproven right now, but I think they'll both do better than what you suggest. And CJ appears to be looking to put the ball on the floor more, as well.

Now, are any of them capable of chipping in to share ball handling responsibilities a la Ryan Blackwell? Stay tuned...

oh i'm not saying they couldn't put it on the floor in the half court. that's a give in. bringing the ball up and starting our offense is something i will be pretty anxious about.

plus JB is already setting the tone for the Freshman. In his presser he is already saying how Roberson and BJ's defense isn't where it needs to be (something along those lines). Everyone knows JB has to trust you to play defense before you see the floor in meaningful minutes...i guess this is getting something totally different though

 

[tee1222]

I'm starting to think that Buss may be our third best guard. G has looked sloppy and is clearly out of position. BJ looks like a future player but is not there yet. Buss has a positive energy when he's in the game and looks like he has a confidence about him that G lacks.


We don't have a backup point guard but I hope Buss gets a look.

I think that if turnovers start piling up, Buss might get a look but I haven't seen him handling it enough, and these games are the perfect test as they are the most minutes some of the freshmen will get.

 

[cuseguy]

I think that if turnovers start piling up, Buss might get a look but I haven't seen him handling it enough, and these games are the perfect test as they are the most minutes some of the freshmen will get.

Patterson is not a point. It's going to have to be backup point by committee, but I'm hoping Mike G can improve and Cooney can step in when needed.

 

[RF2044]

oh i'm not saying they couldn't put it on the floor in the half court. that's a give in. bringing the ball up and starting our offense is something i will be pretty anxious about.

plus JB is already setting the tone for the Freshman. In his presser he is already saying how Roberson and BJ's defense isn't where it needs to be (something along those lines). Everyone knows JB has to trust you to play defense before you see the floor in meaningful minutes...i guess this is getting something totally different though

Just to be clear, I'm talking specifically about them acting as a safety valve outlet bringing the ball up court, not the capacity to create their own shots off of the dribble within the structure of the half court offense.

I don't think that those guys would initiate half court sets or have the offense flow through them--few forwards we've had aside from Billy, DC, Leo, and possibly Blackwell to a lesser extent could really do that. Even Carmelo didn't do that much [he was much better handling in the open floor, or creating for himself off the bounce than initiating the offense for others]. Harris was pretty good in the open floor, but far less effective executing half court sets. Burgan were similar. Not too many other examples. Going back a ways, Raf didn't have much of a handle. Ditto Wes, DNic, Dave Johnson, Luke, and Damone. Players like Howard Triche, Stevie, Shumpert, Kris, etc. had OK handles but weren't offense initiators.

Not too many examples.

 

[rrlbees]

Todd Burgan, and John Wallace come to mind...I don't think Roberson has the handle to do that at this time, and can't see that from Grant.

I was a wreck last season every time MCW drove to the lane and came down in traffic, and that was with Triche...I can't imagine my anxiety this season with Ennis. We have played with fire far too often recently, and won. We are due to get burned soon. Ennis goes down and our season is over

They are practicing it.


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[anomander]

Just to be clear, I'm talking specifically about them acting as a safety valve outlet bringing the ball up court, not the capacity to create their own shots off of the dribble within the structure of the half court offense.

I don't think that those guys would initiate half court sets or have the offense flow through them--few forwards we've had aside from Billy, DC, Leo, and possibly Blackwell to a lesser extent could really do that. Even Carmelo didn't do that much [he was much better handling in the open floor, or creating for himself off the bounce than initiating the offense for others]. Harris was pretty good in the open floor, but far less effective executing half court sets. Burgan were similar. Not too many other examples. Going back a ways, Raf didn't have much of a handle. Ditto Wes, DNic, Dave Johnson, Luke, and Damone. Players like Howard Triche, Stevie, Shumpert, Kris, etc. had OK handles but weren't offense initiators.

Not too many examples.

i agree with that as well. i was more or less responding to Bee's who said Roberson or Grant could bring it up. i don't see any forwards on this roster who could do what Burgan, Blackwell, or Wallace did

 

[orangefan13]

We ran a few minutes today with Gbinije as the point and Ennis off the ball next to him. And Ennis drove and dished well in that circumstance. I remember Ennis finishing with the left hand well in highschool. Wonder if we could see more of Ennis running that off guard role in the halfcourt when Gbinije is in if the scoring is solid. Much better for Gbinije to rush back to contest a shot/get a foul on D then Ennis early on.That opens up a whole new level of possibilities, even bringing Cooney's offensive and defensive energy off the bench with Grant.

There will be some times when Ennis gets into foul trouble this year, we can't advise him not to drive because of it.

 

[two3zone]

I think Gbinije will be fine. He can't be picking up his dribble like he has been and the turnovers he did make were just plain stupid passes. I think if he plays with more caution, he'll be fine.