Best freshmen years

[SWC75]

A poster was suggesting that Tyler Lydon and Malachi Richardson didn’t have really good freshmen seasons when it seemed to me, (and I think most of us) that they were two of the best freshmen we’ve had in a while. I decided to look at the freshmen years SU players have had since 1982-83, the year the SU website has full numbers.

M= minutes, P= points, R = rebounds, A= assists, S= steals, B= blocks, + = P+R+A+S+B MFG = missed field goals, MFT = missed free throws, TO= turnovers, PF = personal fouls, - = MFG+MFT+TO+PF. NP is “net points = + minus -. OE is “offensive efficiency” = P minus MFG and MFT. FG is “floor game” = NP –OE. Everything but M is per 40 minutes. M is minutes per games available.

I’ll limit the list to freshmen who averaged 10M and 10NP per 40 minutes.

1982-83
Rafael Addison 18.5m 18.3p 6.9r 2.6a 1.3s 0.7b 29.8+ 7.1mfg 1.5mft 2.8to 4.6pf 16.0- = 13.8np 9.7oe 4.1fg
Wendell Alexis 16.0m 14.2p 11.1r 1.2a 1.3s 1.2b 29.0+ 4.9mfg 1.3mft 2.3to 5.8pf 14.3- = 14.7np 8.0oe 6.7fg

1983-84
Pearl Washington 34.0m 16.9p 3.1r 7.3a 2.7s 0.1b 30.1+ 5.7mfg 1.7mft 4.1to 4.0pf 15.5- = 14.6np 9.5oe 5.1fg

1984-85
Rony Seikaly 25.0m 12.9p 10.2r 0.7a 0.6s 3.0b 27.4+ 4.2mfg 2.4mft 2.6to 6.2pf 15.4- = 12.0NP 6.3OE 5.7FG
Michael Brown 23.4m 14.3p 3.9r 2.3a 1.4s 0.2b 22.1+ 6.0mfg 0.2mft 2.8to 3.1pf 12.1- = 10.0NP 8.1OE 1.9FG

1985-86
Sherman Douglas 11.4m 19.0p 4.3r 7.4a 4.3s 0.7b 35.7+ 4.7mfg 1.7mft 4.3to 4.3pf 15.0- = 20.7NP 12.6OE 8.1FG

1986-87
Derrick Coleman 30.6m 15.6p 11.4r 1.5a 1.5s 2.3b 32.3+ 4.7mfg 1.7mft 2.3to 4.1pf 12.8- = 19.5NP 8.1OE 11.4FG

1988-89
Billy Owens 32.0m 16.3p 8.7r 3.7a 2.1s 1.2b 32.0+ 5.9mfg 1.7mft 2.5to 3.6pf 13.7- = 18.3NP 8.7OE 9.6FG

1990-91
Scott McCorkle 10.6m 15.9p 6.4r 4.2a 1.3s 1.0b +28.8 5.4mfg 2.0mft 2.2to 5.1pf -14.7 = 14.1NP 8.5OE 5.6FG

1991-92
Lawrence Moten 33.8m 21.6p 7.1r 2.3a 1.7s 1.3b +34.0 7.2mfg 1.9mft 3.0to 3.2pf -15.3 = 18.7NP 9.6OE 9.1FG

1992-93
John Wallace 29.8m 14.9p 10.2r 1.8a 1.6s 1.8b +30.3 5.4mfg 1.1mft 4.3to 3.5pf -14.3 = 16.0NP 8.4OE 7.6FG

1993-94
Otis Hill 24.3m 13.1p 9.2r 2.0a 1.6s 2.3b +28.2 4.7mfg 1.5mft 2.6to 6.3pf -15.1 = 13.1NP 6.9OE 6.2FG

1994-95
Todd Burgan 11.1m 14.6p 7.9r 1.9a 2.1s 0.4b +26.9 5.6mfg 1.3mft 3.1to 6.0pf -16.0 = 10.9NP 7.7OE 3.2FG

1996-97
Jason Hart 35.7m 10.8p 4.0r 6.4a 3.2s 0.1b +24.5 6.5mfg 0.9mft 3.5to 3.0pf -13.9 = 10.6NP 3.4OE 7.2FG
Etan Thomas 16.3m 14.0p 10.3r 0.3a 0.9s 4.7b +30.2 4.7mfg 3.7mft 3.2to 5.7pf -17.3 = 12.9NP 5.6OE 7.3FG

1998-99
Preston Shumpert 14.3m 15.1p 6.7r 1.6a 1.3s 0.5b +25.2 7.8mfg 0.9mft 2.5to 2.2pf -13.4 = 11.8NP 6.4OE 5.4FG

1999-00
DeShaun Williams 16.0m 15.7p 3.8r 4.2a 2.8s 0.2b +26.7 7.4mfg 0.4mft 3.3to 3.8pf -14.9 = 11.8NP 7.9OE 3.9FG

2001-02
Craig Forth 21.7m 9.1p 8.3r 2.1a 1.4s 3.3b +24.2 4.8mfg 0.9mft 2.3to 5.5pf -13.5 = 10.7NP 5.0OE 5.7FG
Hakim Warrick 17.4m 14.0p 11.0r 1.2a 1.3s 1.4b +28.9 5.0mfg 2.4mft 2.6to 4.7pf -14.7 = 14.2NP 6.6OE 7.6FG
Josh Pace 12.2m 14.2p 6.7r 2.6a 3.0s 0.4b +26.9 6.1mfg 1.5mft 2.3to 3.5pf -13.4 = 13.5NP 6.6OE 6.9FG

2002-03
Carmelo Anthony 36.4m 24.4p 11.0r 2.4a 1.7s 0.9b +40.4 10.5mfg 2.2mft 2.4to 2.4pf -17.5 = 22.9NP 11.7OE 11.2FG
Gerry McNamara 35.3m 15.1p 2.6r 5.0a 2.5s 0.1b +25.3 7.1mfg 0.3mft 2.8to 2.2pf -12.4 = 12.9NP 7.7OE 5.2FG
Billy Edelin 23.2m 15.6p 5.9r 4.4a 1.8s 0.2b +27.9 5.0mfg 1.7mft 4.0to 1.7pf -12.7 = 15.5NP 8.9OE 6.6FG

2005-06
Eric Devendorf 27.1m 18.1p 3.6r 3.5a 1.5s 0.6b 27.3+ 8.3mfg 0.6mft 3.4to 3.9pf 16.2- = 11.1NP 9.2OE 1.9FG

2006-07
Paul Harris 21.7m 15.9p 13.1r 3.0a 1.5s 1.1b 34.6+ 6.5mfg 2.8mft 3.5to 3.6pf 16.4- = 18.2NP 6.6OE 11.6FG

2007-08
Donte Greene 35.8m 19.8p 8.0r 2.3a 1.4s 1.8b 33.3+ 9.7mfg 1.2mft 2.9to 3.2pf 17.0- = 16.3NP 8.9OE 7.4FG
Jonny Flynn 35.5m 17.6p 3.0r 6.0a 1.7s 0.2b 28.5+ 7.2mfg 1.0mft 3.1to 1.6pf 12.9- = 15.6NP 9.4OE 6.2FG
Rick Jackson 12.9m 11.5p 9.3r 1.7a 1.3s 3.9b 27.7+ 4.1mfg 2.2mft 2.8to 3.9pf 13.0- = 14.7NP 5.2OE 9.5FG

2009-10
Brandon Triche 21.3m 15.2p 3.4r 5.3a 1.6s 0.1b 25.6+ 5.4mfg 1.6mft 3.8to 2.4pf 13.2- = 12.4NP 8.2OE 4.2FG

2010-11
CJ Fair 18.6m 13.7p 8.2r 0.9a 1.7s 1.7b 26.2+ 4.6mfg 1.7mft 1.8to 2.6pf 10.7- = 15.5NP 7.4OE 8.1FG
Dion Waiters 16.3m 16.1p 3.8r 3.6a 2.7s 0.3b 26.5+ 8.1mfg 0.6mft 2.2to 3.3pf 14.2- = 12.3NP 7.4OE 4.9FG
Baye Moussa Keita 14.6m 6.0p 10.3r 0.5a 1.6s 3.4b 21.8+ 1.9mfg 1.3mft 1.6to 5.9pf 10.7- = 11.1NP 2.8OE 8.3FG

2011-12
Rakeem Christmas 11.5m 9.6p 10.2r 0.7a 1.0s 2.8b = 24.3+ 3.0mfg 1.1mft 2.2to 5.9pf = 12.2- = 12.1NP 5.5OE 6.6FG

2012-13
Jerami Grant 14.3m 10.8p 8.3r 1.3a 1.2s 1.2b +22.8 4.5mfg 2.2mft 1.8to 3.8pf -12.3 = 10.5NP 4.1OE 6.4FG
DaJuan Coleman 12.7m 15.0p 12.5r 0.5a 1.7s 1.2b +30.9 7.1mfg 4.6mft 3.0to 3.9pf -18.6 = 12.3NP 3.3OE 9.0FG

2013-14
Tyler Ennis 35.7m 14.5p 3.8r 6.2a 2.3s 0.2b +27.0 7.0mfg 1.2mft 1.9to 2.3pf -12.4 = 14.6NP 6.3OE 8.3FG

2014-15
Chris McCullough 28.1m 13.2p 9.8r 1.6a 2.4s 2.9b = 29.9+ 5.2mfg 2.8mft 3.1to 3.6pf = 14.7- = 15.2NP 5.2OE 10.0FG

2015-16 (so far)
Tyler Lydon 30.3M 13.4P 8.4R 1.6A 1.5S 1.9B = 26.8+ 4.6MFG 0.6MFT 1.7TO 3.6PF = 10.5- = 16.3NP 8.2OE 8.1FG
Malachi Richardson 34.2M 15.4P 5.0R 2.6A 1.4S 0.3B = 24.7+ 8.0MFG 1.4MFT 2.4TO 2.7PF = 14.5- = 10.2NP 6.0OE 4.2FG

In rank order, by NP:
22.9 Carmelo Anthony
20.7 Sherman Douglas
19.5 Derrick Coleman
18.7 Lawrence Moten
18.3 Billy Owens
18.2 Paul Harris
16.3 Donte Greene and Tyler Lydon
16.0 John Wallace
15.6 Johnny Flynn
15.5 Billy Edelin and C.J. Fair
15.2 Chris McCullough
14.7 Wendell Alexis and Rick Jackson
14.6 Tyler Ennis and Pearl Washington
14.2 Hakim Warrick
14.1 Scott McCorkle
13.8 Rafael Addison
13.5 Josh Pace
13.1 Otis Hill
12.9 Gerry McNamara and Etan Thomas
12.4 Brandon Triche
12.3 DaJuan Coleman and Dion Waiters
12.1 Rakeem Christmas
12.0 Rony Seikaly
11.8 DeShaun Williams and Preston Shumpert
11.1 Eric Devendorf and Baye Moussa Keita
10.9 Todd Burgan
10.7 Craig Forth
10.6 Jason Hart
10.5 Jerami Grant
10.2 Malachi Richardson
10.0 Michael Brown

That’s 39 players, all of whom had good freshmen years. Of the group, Brown, Williams, McCorkle, Edelin and Harris went on to have disappointing careers. Anthony, Ennis, Greene and McCullough bungied right to the NBA. Washington, Owens, Grant, Waiters, Flynn and Devendorf stuck around but still had eligiblity left when they left. But overall, the vast majority of the players on the list, (there are 39), went on to have strong careers. Their freshmen years were not “false positives”.

Richardson’s numbers most resemble those of a couple of disappointments, Michael Brown and DeShaun Williams. He is prone to some bad games and slumps. But at his best, I felt he was the equal of Michael Gbinije and Gbinije is a 5th year senior while Richardson is a freshman. Eric Devendorf and Preston Shumpert are also in the ballpark but Devo was great off the dribble and Shumpert was a better rebounder. Dion Waiters and Brandon Triche are other possible comparisons but they were purely guards and got more assists, which gives them better overall numbers. Jason Hart was a point guardso he doesn’t really fit here.

Lydon has the same NP as Donte Greene, an interesting comparison. They have similar body types and are tall guys who can shot from outside. But Greene was a much greater volume shooter and scored much more, (19.8 vs. 13.4) and missed much more, (9.7-4.6). Lydon actually more resembles McCullough, except Chris was not really a three point shooter, (1 for 1). There’s a numbercial resemblance to Billy Owens but Billy got more assists. A Wendell Alexis comparison could be made but Wendell was a better rebounder and committed more fouls. Almost everybody who performed at Tyler’s level as a freshman went on to become and All-American. Greene left and Harris faded but the rest of the ones that high in NP are stellar.

 

[two3zone]

Thank you for the research, love your posts.

I know I'm the person you're talking about talking about saying that had bad years.

By your list it looks like Mal didn't live up to expectations but it also says that Lydon was substantially better than Gmac which I find hard to believe. Again, I don't think they had bad years but to say their years were a resounding success I believe is wrong.

 

[bevosu]

Edelin may have had a disappointing career, due to some non basketball factors, but he was a solid PG and a smart basketball player.

I'd want him at PG on my college BB team any day.

 

[81South]

Good post. I personally felt they had good years. Some ups and downs but definitely kids who are going to help SU win alot of games in their time here.

 

[MikeSU02]

Can we just build a statue for Melo on campus? I miss 2003.

 

[SWC75]

Thank you for the research, love your posts.

I know I'm the person you're talking about talking about saying that had bad years.

By your list it looks like Mal didn't live up to expectations but it also says that Lydon was substantially better than Gmac which I find hard to believe. Again, I don't think they had bad years but to say their years were a resounding success I believe is wrong.

Off the list I'd say anyone on it had a good freshman year. The closer a player is to the basket , both horizontally and vertically, then to get more net points as they miss fewer shots and get more rebounds, (which is not irrelevant to their impact on the game). Comparisons are better if you compare players to those who played similar positions, which is what i did in the summary.. The fact that Lydon had more NP than GMAC doesn't mean that the list over-rates him.

 

[SWC75]

Can we just build a statue for Melo on campus? I miss 2003.

He's already got a building. I told JB on his show to recruits guys they'll name buildings after. The statue guys are just depth.

Actually I'd like to see a statue of a "Boss Squirrel".

 

[Shark58]

you can never type McCorkle enough

 

[two3zone]

you can never type McCorkle enough

Can't say it enough either.

 

[OrangeDW]

Edelin may have had a disappointing career, due to some non basketball factors, but he was a solid PG and a smart basketball player.

I'd want him at PG on my college BB team any day.

No Billy, no title. His career was a success, because the one season he finished was the biggest success we've ever had.

 

[SWC75]

Can't say it enough either.

If he's a father now, he's ...Pop McCorkle!

 

[tbonezone]

sherm was riding the pine behind pearl. top impact frosh were probably pearl, dc, billy, carmelo who we all know would be great and lawrence moten who came out of nowhere to surprise us all..

 

[cuseattle]

sherm was riding the pine behind pearl. top impact frosh were probably pearl, dc, billy, carmelo who we all know would be great and lawrence moten who came out of nowhere to surprise us all..

Love Mr, Moten, or as I like to cal him L Mo.

 

[EnnisEnvy]

Don't know if this is possible or not but wouldn't it be fun to repost the thread following the '03 championship? Y'know, just for old time's sake? Maybe that would talk some of the people here off the edge.

 

[TheCusian]

Thank you for the research, love your posts. I know I'm the person you're talking about talking about saying that had bad years. By your list it looks like Mal didn't live up to expectations but it also says that Lydon was substantially better than Gmac which I find hard to believe. Again, I don't think they had bad years but to say their years were a resounding success I believe is wrong.

There's a whole mess of freshman that didn't sniff this list. Richardson is still in pretty good company.

 

[SWC75]

Don't know if this is possible or not but wouldn't it be fun to repost the thread following the '03 championship? Y'know, just for old time's sake? Maybe that would talk some of the people here off the edge.

Which one?

 

[domestu]

I always enjoy your net points listings but using them to measure the quality of play by our freshman players like this leads to misleading results. Some of these freshmen started every game and were key players on their team while others were subs who didn't play in some conference contests and padded their net points per 40 minutes totals against inferior non-conference opponents.

Sherman Douglas did not play in five games his freshman season and most of his action against the top Big East teams came in short spurts when Pearl was taking a breather on the bench. I remember some great performances by Sherman in the early games that season but he didn't play as many minutes in our conference games. Pearl played a lot more minutes against Big East opponents than he did in our December contests.

These net points for the entire season can also skewer the numbers for subs like who play limited moments in conference games. As much as I like CJ Fair it is difficult to compare his freshman season when he averaged less than 20 minutes per game with Jonny Flynn or Donte Greene playing over 35 minutes a night.

There is no comparison between what Pearl Washington and Sherman Douglas did as freshmen. And taking the four points Josh Pace scored per game in twelve minutes of action really can't be compared to what Gerry McNamara did playing over 35 minutes.

I believe these figures accurately reflect the value of our freshmen starters who played most of the time but it really overinflates the production of some of the subs like Scott McCorkle and Pace.

Pearl Washington was selected to the All-Big East first team as a freshman. When I see Tyler Lydon being rated more productive over forty minutes of play than Pearl I may need to reevaluate my opinion of net points.

 

[SWC75]

I always enjoy your net points listings but using them to measure the quality of play by our freshman players like this leads to misleading results. Some of these freshmen started every game and were key players on their team while others were subs who didn't play in some conference contests and padded their net points per 40 minutes totals against inferior non-conference opponents.

Sherman Douglas did not play in five games his freshman season and most of his action against the top Big East teams came in short spurts when Pearl was taking a breather on the bench. I remember some great performances by Sherman in the early games that season but he didn't play as many minutes in our conference games. Pearl played a lot more minutes against Big East opponents than he did in our December contests.

These net points for the entire season can also skewer the numbers for subs like who play limited moments in conference games. As much as I like CJ Fair it is difficult to compare his freshman season when he averaged less than 20 minutes per game with Jonny Flynn or Donte Greene playing over 35 minutes a night.

There is no comparison between what Pearl Washington and Sherman Douglas did as freshmen. And taking the four points Josh Pace scored per game in twelve minutes of action really can't be compared to what Gerry McNamara did playing over 35 minutes.

I believe these figures accurately reflect the value of our freshmen starters who played most of the time but it really overinflates the production of some of the subs like Scott McCorkle and Pace.

Pearl Washington was selected to the All-Big East first team as a freshman. When I see Tyler Lydon being rated more productive over forty minutes of play than Pearl I may need to reevaluate my opinion of net points.

That's why i include the minutes per game. I suppose I could have had a higher bar for the minimum to make the list but some guys don't play starter's minutes because there's already an established player at their spot. It didn't mean they didn't perform well. In Sherman's case, his numbers per 40 minutes are comparable to what he did in subsequent seasons. Fair and Pace certainly showed promise and that was really the issue: if a player plays well as a freshman does that mean that he's going to have a good career. The answer is almost always yes, if he sticks around.

 

[domestu]

Most of the net points figures for these players make sense to me but some of the subs seem a little out of line, especially Keita. Probably because many of their better games came in less memorable early season games. Funny thing about CJ is he wasn't that productive early in his freshman year and his best games occurred after conference play started.

It didn't happen a lot during Sherman's freshman season but I'll never forget those times when he and Pearl played together in the background.

 

[CaptainJ]

Love Mr, Moten, or as I like to cal him L Mo.

I'm not sure how many people caught that other than Bevo(one of the more underrated members on here, in my humble opinion), because that deserved more likes, especially coming from you! Anyhow, here is a bump in hopes of recognition.

I'd also like to thank SWC75 who also lives up to his avatar. Absolutely mindboggling the amount of work you put into these things! SU may not get a Boss Squirrel statue due to their utter lack of association with such character in recent times, but I think this board owes you a statue of him in your honor!

As for Melo's statue, once the technology is ready I think they should just make a Lt. Data android version of Melo to put in the Melo Center instead. I think kids(and adults) would have fun interacting with him. He could probably get elected mayor of Syracuse.

 

[721Comstock]

Most of the net points figures for these players make sense to me but some of the subs seem a little out of line, especially Keita. Probably because many of their better games came in less memorable early season games. Funny thing about CJ is he wasn't that productive early in his freshman year and his best games occurred after conference play started.

It didn't happen a lot during Sherman's freshman season but I'll never forget those times when he and Pearl played together in the background.

Sherm was AWESOME as a Frosh, but with Pearl around, he didn't get the PT or the ball as much as he otherwise might have.
IF he had been a 4-year starter, he'd likely still be the NCAA all-time assists leader, and also maybe SU's scoring leader too.

CJ was a GREAT Frosh player - but it took him a while to earn JB's good graces, so he played more (and better) as the season wore on.

Lydon is VERY efficient, but as many have pointed out - perhaps too much so.
He really should have forced the action a bit more, even if his efficiency may have dropped, his overall scoring and positive impact likely would have increased.

Meanwhile, a guy like Rony Seikaly was pretty raw as a Frosh.
An average game for him would be 3 tomahawk dunks (on dimes from Pearl), 1 putback (on 3-4 tries), 6 boards and 5 fouls in 25 minutes.
When pretty much all you can do is dunk, and you've got a great PG to set you up, it seems like you're an "efficient" offensive player.
(o hai DeAndre Jordan!! )

I appreciate SWC75's time and effort in compiling this info, but - you can't really glean too much from it, other than:
Guys like Melo, Poetry, Sherm, and DC were AMAZING as Frosh (DUH! ), while other players were good, and still others may have had to do too much too soon on a "meh" team (like Mali).

 

[EnnisEnvy]

Which one?

Whichever one revels most in winning the NC.