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Message: [QUOTE="SWC75, post: 1686075, member: 289"] A poster was suggesting that Tyler Lydon and Malachi Richardson didn’t have really good freshmen seasons when it seemed to me, (and I think most of us) that they were two of the best freshmen we’ve had in a while. I decided to look at the freshmen years SU players have had since 1982-83, the year the SU website has full numbers. M= minutes, P= points, R = rebounds, A= assists, S= steals, B= blocks, + = P+R+A+S+B MFG = missed field goals, MFT = missed free throws, TO= turnovers, PF = personal fouls, - = MFG+MFT+TO+PF. NP is “net points = + minus -. OE is “offensive efficiency” = P minus MFG and MFT. FG is “floor game” = NP –OE. Everything but M is per 40 minutes. M is minutes per games available. I’ll limit the list to freshmen who averaged 10M and 10NP per 40 minutes. 1982-83 Rafael Addison 18.5m 18.3p 6.9r 2.6a 1.3s 0.7b 29.8+ 7.1mfg 1.5mft 2.8to 4.6pf 16.0- = 13.8np 9.7oe 4.1fg Wendell Alexis 16.0m 14.2p 11.1r 1.2a 1.3s 1.2b 29.0+ 4.9mfg 1.3mft 2.3to 5.8pf 14.3- = 14.7np 8.0oe 6.7fg 1983-84 Pearl Washington 34.0m 16.9p 3.1r 7.3a 2.7s 0.1b 30.1+ 5.7mfg 1.7mft 4.1to 4.0pf 15.5- = 14.6np 9.5oe 5.1fg 1984-85 Rony Seikaly 25.0m 12.9p 10.2r 0.7a 0.6s 3.0b 27.4+ 4.2mfg 2.4mft 2.6to 6.2pf 15.4- = 12.0NP 6.3OE 5.7FG Michael Brown 23.4m 14.3p 3.9r 2.3a 1.4s 0.2b 22.1+ 6.0mfg 0.2mft 2.8to 3.1pf 12.1- = 10.0NP 8.1OE 1.9FG 1985-86 Sherman Douglas 11.4m 19.0p 4.3r 7.4a 4.3s 0.7b 35.7+ 4.7mfg 1.7mft 4.3to 4.3pf 15.0- = 20.7NP 12.6OE 8.1FG 1986-87 Derrick Coleman 30.6m 15.6p 11.4r 1.5a 1.5s 2.3b 32.3+ 4.7mfg 1.7mft 2.3to 4.1pf 12.8- = 19.5NP 8.1OE 11.4FG 1988-89 Billy Owens 32.0m 16.3p 8.7r 3.7a 2.1s 1.2b 32.0+ 5.9mfg 1.7mft 2.5to 3.6pf 13.7- = 18.3NP 8.7OE 9.6FG 1990-91 Scott McCorkle 10.6m 15.9p 6.4r 4.2a 1.3s 1.0b +28.8 5.4mfg 2.0mft 2.2to 5.1pf -14.7 = 14.1NP 8.5OE 5.6FG 1991-92 Lawrence Moten 33.8m 21.6p 7.1r 2.3a 1.7s 1.3b +34.0 7.2mfg 1.9mft 3.0to 3.2pf -15.3 = 18.7NP 9.6OE 9.1FG 1992-93 John Wallace 29.8m 14.9p 10.2r 1.8a 1.6s 1.8b +30.3 5.4mfg 1.1mft 4.3to 3.5pf -14.3 = 16.0NP 8.4OE 7.6FG 1993-94 Otis Hill 24.3m 13.1p 9.2r 2.0a 1.6s 2.3b +28.2 4.7mfg 1.5mft 2.6to 6.3pf -15.1 = 13.1NP 6.9OE 6.2FG 1994-95 Todd Burgan 11.1m 14.6p 7.9r 1.9a 2.1s 0.4b +26.9 5.6mfg 1.3mft 3.1to 6.0pf -16.0 = 10.9NP 7.7OE 3.2FG 1996-97 Jason Hart 35.7m 10.8p 4.0r 6.4a 3.2s 0.1b +24.5 6.5mfg 0.9mft 3.5to 3.0pf -13.9 = 10.6NP 3.4OE 7.2FG Etan Thomas 16.3m 14.0p 10.3r 0.3a 0.9s 4.7b +30.2 4.7mfg 3.7mft 3.2to 5.7pf -17.3 = 12.9NP 5.6OE 7.3FG 1998-99 Preston Shumpert 14.3m 15.1p 6.7r 1.6a 1.3s 0.5b +25.2 7.8mfg 0.9mft 2.5to 2.2pf -13.4 = 11.8NP 6.4OE 5.4FG 1999-00 DeShaun Williams 16.0m 15.7p 3.8r 4.2a 2.8s 0.2b +26.7 7.4mfg 0.4mft 3.3to 3.8pf -14.9 = 11.8NP 7.9OE 3.9FG 2001-02 Craig Forth 21.7m 9.1p 8.3r 2.1a 1.4s 3.3b +24.2 4.8mfg 0.9mft 2.3to 5.5pf -13.5 = 10.7NP 5.0OE 5.7FG Hakim Warrick 17.4m 14.0p 11.0r 1.2a 1.3s 1.4b +28.9 5.0mfg 2.4mft 2.6to 4.7pf -14.7 = 14.2NP 6.6OE 7.6FG Josh Pace 12.2m 14.2p 6.7r 2.6a 3.0s 0.4b +26.9 6.1mfg 1.5mft 2.3to 3.5pf -13.4 = 13.5NP 6.6OE 6.9FG 2002-03 Carmelo Anthony 36.4m 24.4p 11.0r 2.4a 1.7s 0.9b +40.4 10.5mfg 2.2mft 2.4to 2.4pf -17.5 = 22.9NP 11.7OE 11.2FG Gerry McNamara 35.3m 15.1p 2.6r 5.0a 2.5s 0.1b +25.3 7.1mfg 0.3mft 2.8to 2.2pf -12.4 = 12.9NP 7.7OE 5.2FG Billy Edelin 23.2m 15.6p 5.9r 4.4a 1.8s 0.2b +27.9 5.0mfg 1.7mft 4.0to 1.7pf -12.7 = 15.5NP 8.9OE 6.6FG 2005-06 Eric Devendorf 27.1m 18.1p 3.6r 3.5a 1.5s 0.6b 27.3+ 8.3mfg 0.6mft 3.4to 3.9pf 16.2- = 11.1NP 9.2OE 1.9FG 2006-07 Paul Harris 21.7m 15.9p 13.1r 3.0a 1.5s 1.1b 34.6+ 6.5mfg 2.8mft 3.5to 3.6pf 16.4- = 18.2NP 6.6OE 11.6FG 2007-08 Donte Greene 35.8m 19.8p 8.0r 2.3a 1.4s 1.8b 33.3+ 9.7mfg 1.2mft 2.9to 3.2pf 17.0- = 16.3NP 8.9OE 7.4FG Jonny Flynn 35.5m 17.6p 3.0r 6.0a 1.7s 0.2b 28.5+ 7.2mfg 1.0mft 3.1to 1.6pf 12.9- = 15.6NP 9.4OE 6.2FG Rick Jackson 12.9m 11.5p 9.3r 1.7a 1.3s 3.9b 27.7+ 4.1mfg 2.2mft 2.8to 3.9pf 13.0- = 14.7NP 5.2OE 9.5FG 2009-10 Brandon Triche 21.3m 15.2p 3.4r 5.3a 1.6s 0.1b 25.6+ 5.4mfg 1.6mft 3.8to 2.4pf 13.2- = 12.4NP 8.2OE 4.2FG 2010-11 CJ Fair 18.6m 13.7p 8.2r 0.9a 1.7s 1.7b 26.2+ 4.6mfg 1.7mft 1.8to 2.6pf 10.7- = 15.5NP 7.4OE 8.1FG Dion Waiters 16.3m 16.1p 3.8r 3.6a 2.7s 0.3b 26.5+ 8.1mfg 0.6mft 2.2to 3.3pf 14.2- = 12.3NP 7.4OE 4.9FG Baye Moussa Keita 14.6m 6.0p 10.3r 0.5a 1.6s 3.4b 21.8+ 1.9mfg 1.3mft 1.6to 5.9pf 10.7- = 11.1NP 2.8OE 8.3FG 2011-12 Rakeem Christmas 11.5m 9.6p 10.2r 0.7a 1.0s 2.8b = 24.3+ 3.0mfg 1.1mft 2.2to 5.9pf = 12.2- = 12.1NP 5.5OE 6.6FG 2012-13 Jerami Grant 14.3m 10.8p 8.3r 1.3a 1.2s 1.2b +22.8 4.5mfg 2.2mft 1.8to 3.8pf -12.3 = 10.5NP 4.1OE 6.4FG DaJuan Coleman 12.7m 15.0p 12.5r 0.5a 1.7s 1.2b +30.9 7.1mfg 4.6mft 3.0to 3.9pf -18.6 = 12.3NP 3.3OE 9.0FG 2013-14 Tyler Ennis 35.7m 14.5p 3.8r 6.2a 2.3s 0.2b +27.0 7.0mfg 1.2mft 1.9to 2.3pf -12.4 = 14.6NP 6.3OE 8.3FG 2014-15 Chris McCullough 28.1m 13.2p 9.8r 1.6a 2.4s 2.9b = 29.9+ 5.2mfg 2.8mft 3.1to 3.6pf = 14.7- = 15.2NP 5.2OE 10.0FG 2015-16 (so far) Tyler Lydon 30.3M 13.4P 8.4R 1.6A 1.5S 1.9B = 26.8+ 4.6MFG 0.6MFT 1.7TO 3.6PF = 10.5- = 16.3NP 8.2OE 8.1FG Malachi Richardson 34.2M 15.4P 5.0R 2.6A 1.4S 0.3B = 24.7+ 8.0MFG 1.4MFT 2.4TO 2.7PF = 14.5- = 10.2NP 6.0OE 4.2FG In rank order, by NP: 22.9 Carmelo Anthony 20.7 Sherman Douglas 19.5 Derrick Coleman 18.7 Lawrence Moten 18.3 Billy Owens 18.2 Paul Harris 16.3 Donte Greene and Tyler Lydon 16.0 John Wallace 15.6 Johnny Flynn 15.5 Billy Edelin and C.J. Fair 15.2 Chris McCullough 14.7 Wendell Alexis and Rick Jackson 14.6 Tyler Ennis and Pearl Washington 14.2 Hakim Warrick 14.1 Scott McCorkle 13.8 Rafael Addison 13.5 Josh Pace 13.1 Otis Hill 12.9 Gerry McNamara and Etan Thomas 12.4 Brandon Triche 12.3 DaJuan Coleman and Dion Waiters 12.1 Rakeem Christmas 12.0 Rony Seikaly 11.8 DeShaun Williams and Preston Shumpert 11.1 Eric Devendorf and Baye Moussa Keita 10.9 Todd Burgan 10.7 Craig Forth 10.6 Jason Hart 10.5 Jerami Grant 10.2 Malachi Richardson 10.0 Michael Brown That’s 39 players, all of whom had good freshmen years. Of the group, Brown, Williams, McCorkle, Edelin and Harris went on to have disappointing careers. Anthony, Ennis, Greene and McCullough bungied right to the NBA. Washington, Owens, Grant, Waiters, Flynn and Devendorf stuck around but still had eligiblity left when they left. But overall, the vast majority of the players on the list, (there are 39), went on to have strong careers. Their freshmen years were not “false positives”. Richardson’s numbers most resemble those of a couple of disappointments, Michael Brown and DeShaun Williams. He is prone to some bad games and slumps. But at his best, I felt he was the equal of Michael Gbinije and Gbinije is a 5th year senior while Richardson is a freshman. Eric Devendorf and Preston Shumpert are also in the ballpark but Devo was great off the dribble and Shumpert was a better rebounder. Dion Waiters and Brandon Triche are other possible comparisons but they were purely guards and got more assists, which gives them better overall numbers. Jason Hart was a point guardso he doesn’t really fit here. Lydon has the same NP as Donte Greene, an interesting comparison. They have similar body types and are tall guys who can shot from outside. But Greene was a much greater volume shooter and scored much more, (19.8 vs. 13.4) and missed much more, (9.7-4.6). Lydon actually more resembles McCullough, except Chris was not really a three point shooter, (1 for 1). There’s a numbercial resemblance to Billy Owens but Billy got more assists. A Wendell Alexis comparison could be made but Wendell was a better rebounder and committed more fouls. Almost everybody who performed at Tyler’s level as a freshman went on to become and All-American. Greene left and Harris faded but the rest of the ones that high in NP are stellar. [/QUOTE]

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