Best guess at Attack line and 2 Midfield Lines?
- Thread starter Dcuse
- Start date
OrangeXtreme
The Mayor of Dewitt
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 231,207
- Like
- 419,870
A: Donahue, Evans, Mariano
M1: Barber, Simmons, Weston
M2: McKinney, DeJoe, Carlin?
M1: Barber, Simmons, Weston
M2: McKinney, DeJoe, Carlin?
MaxFischer
Walk On
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 190
- Like
- 348
I think you have the attack and the 1st line. 2nd line could be made up of any number of 8 to 10 players.
Let's assume you are correct about the attack and the first line. If some things break right, that COULD be a potent attack group. Evans will need to make a big jump, Mariano will need to hit the ground running and Dylan will need to expand his game some. But it could happen.
If, however, that is the best we can do in terms of a first midfield, that is the least potent first midfield in recent history. That would be an "acceptable" second midfield most years. Barber is a nice player but will now get the pole every game. How will he do in that role? Weston has shown little bits of promise but certainly not in any sustained way. He will need to make a big, big jump. Simmons has played mostly in garbage time. Had flashes, but nothing sustained and certainly doesn't have a pedigree (other than the last name). Scary to start a season with such massive questions in the midfield.
Powellfan
Renowned lacrosse analyst
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2014
- Messages
- 6,439
- Like
- 10,636
Best guess ...
A: Donahue, Evans, Mariano
M1: Barber, Simmons, Weston
M2: Lane, Piroli, Salcido
Others in contention to play would be DeJoe, Ford and Carlin ... I don't know if any of the freshmen middies got time in fall ball, I think most would redshirt.
A: Donahue, Evans, Mariano
M1: Barber, Simmons, Weston
M2: Lane, Piroli, Salcido
Others in contention to play would be DeJoe, Ford and Carlin ... I don't know if any of the freshmen middies got time in fall ball, I think most would redshirt.
JeremyCuse
Renowned lacrosse analyst
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 41,760
- Like
- 54,482
A lot of things are up in the air at this point and Desko's comments about the midfield and Williams playing some offense are definitely red flags. Trying to get a handled on the two midlines is going to be tough but here are my thoughts.
Attack - Donahue, Evans, Mariano,
Player with the most tenuous hold - Evans
Young guys who could play - Voight and Thorpe
Dark Horse - Lane
I think Donahue and Mariano will be on the field most of the time. Mariano put up good numbers at Umass despite little help. With Forkin transferring (odd decision), guys with Div 1 attack experience are limited expect Mariano to play a lot. Third spot is much more wide open, Evans will get first crack but he has been underwhelming at best his first two years. If he struggles look for Voight to get a crack. Haven't heard much about Thorpe since he got to SU last year but his skill level in high school was off the charts so I am throwing him out there as well. I like Solomon but I think he and Shewell are likely to redshirt unless they impress. Lane is interesting possibility, he played some middie last year but to me if he ever is going to see the field in meaningful time here it will be at attack. He looked way overmatched at the midfield and struggled mightily.
Midfield
1st line - Barber, Piroli, Simmons/Westin
2nd Line - Romano, Salcido, Dejoe/Carlin/Ford
3rd Line - McKinney? Lane, Carlin/Ford? O'Sullivan?
Midfield is unfortunately a bit of a mess right now. I know Barber played some attack in the fall but I don't see him anywhere but midfield barring an injury to Donahue or something like that. Barber has plenty of experience and having played attack at OCC for 2 years he's used to seeing a long pole defender. Piroli should slide right in at the starting midfield. A guy that can score and distribute he would actually make a lot of sense at attack but he has much more valuable at midfield with all of the question marks SU has. Third spot will have to be earned by someone and right now its anyones guess. The fact that none of the middies who redshirted last year separated themselves from the pack in the fall is very disheartening. SU simply cant afford for all of those guys to be recruiting misses with all that they lost to graduation this year and will lost next. Ford, Carlin, Schwasnick, McKinney, one or two of those guys needs to separate themselves from the pack to earn some meaningful minutes this year. With Barber and Piroli both Seniors some quality depth needs to be developed to step in if we don't want to have this same problem next year.
Four people to keep an eye on at the midfield - Dejoe, Westin, Salcido, and Romano. Right now the dark horse to make one of the first two lines has to be Romano. UA recruit, ridiculous stats, heavy praise and a wide open lane, you couldn't ask for a better opening if your an incoming frosh. Hopefully he takes advantage.
Westin and Dejoe have both shown flashes but haven't been able to put together any sort of consistency. Westin is really in a make or break it type situation as he was on the 2nd line last year but didn't have a lot to show for it. He needs to take that next step. Ditto for Dejoe who had a couple games where he showed he was more then a shooter but his playing time outside of man up was limited. Desko loves to reward senior middies with a good amount of PT, a spot on the 2nd mid line is there for the taking.
Salcido has been an enigma he was the talk of pre-season camp last year and stared on the second line. Unfortunately he ended up being pretty much a disaster and by the later half of the year had lost his spot. Can he rise from the ashes? Can he slow himself down to the pace of the game? Has he learned from last years turnover issues?
If your looking for two way out there dark horse candidates keep your eyes on Kevin Hutchings and Riley O Sullivan. Two frosh who will probably redshirt but again with so much unsettled the opportunities are there for a young player that in most years at SU would be unthinkable.
jr4750
All American
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2011
- Messages
- 6,277
- Like
- 9,312
Good analysis Jeremy. Between Carlin, Ford, McKinney, etc, all those guys are big - 6,1 + hoping one or more of them figures it out, and perhaps the others can move to SSDM?
Think Barber is definitely on 1st midfield
my guesses:
Midfield
1st line - Barber, Piroli, Simmons
2nd Line - Dejoe, Weston, Lane
3rd Line - McKinney, Romano, Carlin
Think Lane figures it out and his size has to be used. Not as concerned with the Williams news as many. He's a dynamic athlete that can't be guarded by other FOGO's. We will need as many advantages out there on offense as possible. My only hope is that he gets spelled a bit by CP so that he doesn't run out of gas in 4th quarters.
I'm also very concerned about our wing play. Someone on laxpower suggested having Williams on the wing when CP is /O? Kid's legend is ever growing. Maybe we should have him play goalie and drive the team bus too.
JeremyCuse
Renowned lacrosse analyst
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 41,760
- Like
- 54,482
Agree with a lot of y0ur thoughts especially the issue with wing play. It was again a disaster last year and apparently even with two new wings it was just as bad in the alumni game this fall. One guy to keep an eye on is Ciferi, he got some PT there late in the year and looked pretty good. Hope Desko gives him another look there. Right now I suspect Firman and Grimm will probably get the first look there even though both were underwhelming there last year. With all of the frosh poles and mid fielders I hope we try some different combinations there. A guy like Helmer or Salcido or Mellen should be considerations as well.
I had your same though about moving some of those middies who don't make it to SSDM but right now SU does have pretty good depth there with Ciferi, Grimm, Gillis, and the kid from California. I would definitely move one of them though with Grimm and Gillis being seniors.
I saw that post on laxpower about Ben playing the wings. Again interesting idea but I don't see the positive outweighing the negatives. All we need is him getting a separated shoulder or blowing out a knee in a faceoff scrum that he was on the wings for and the fanbase will be outside the Ensley center with torches.
That said I have been high on Paduda since he was a frosh and I think he can be a very good faceoff guy as he continues to learn the position and take that next step.
I hope he proves me wrong but I still think Lane is way to raw for meaningful minutes against a majority of the schedule. He has great size but the few times Desko tried him at middie last year the results were pretty poor. Perhaps he could be used down low in the man up group as he was on that unit last year but spent almost all of his time up top and pretty much made it 5 on 5.
I was at the navy and towson scrimmage, a few observations to assist the guess work: Both games starting attack was Donahue, Mariano, Evans (they will be very good but need time to jell ) Shewell, Voight, and Solomon all played which means they lost their redshirt. Shewell is the most ready of the three physically. He also seemed very confident and experienced. He had a goal and an assist against an Towson's excellent D and 2nd team AA goalie. I also think he had two goals in the Alumni game. Based on the fall, I see him playing first attack off the bench based on his physicality and offers the best inside scorer threat other than the great and sneaky Donahue. Voight was ok, I was hoping for more but it was tough D. Towson was tough, the cuse starting attack did nothing and the Goalie stopped a half dozen wide open inside shots including two by Donahue in the first half. Towson never really subbed much second teamers in the second half like Cuse. Goalie came out mid way through the 4th I think. Thorpe is the wild card and looked the best with significant playing time against Towson with a great behind the head goal and an assist. We need the best offensive players on the field and hope they try Thorpe at mid field...I have not heard you guys mention that so am I crazy? Which leads me to the Midfield and not great news as you guys have already lamented:
Piroli hurt and DNP, so lost any chance to blend in but we need him to be good. Barber will start but did not look to be different than last year. Lane started at least one game and got tons of run , but that was all he did; run, dodge, run some more and then pass. Got by no one. But boy is he lean lost lots of weight and looks great, so there is hope. I was hoping Simmons and Weston would stand out but they looked exactly as they looked last year when getting runs on the second mid line team against first string D. Dejoe I think can be an answer on first or second line with the cannon and he ran around a bit. If he slows his shot and tries for accuracy maybe he is the surprise Cuse Sr. that takes a team from very good to great. Salcido looked very good and scored a goal on a nice dodge against navy first team and I think he scored or assisted on another (less mistakes and less forcing). McKinney played a lot but did nothing good or bad, so he may still be a year or two away. Ford and Carlin played little in these games when it mattered. Finally no freshmen middie played, so as of the fall the coaches did not think they could help the team enough to waste a redshirt. Not good news especially for Romano, but maybe he or another freshmen will figure it out and move in front of one of the upper classmen to play second line in the spring. Because of the above, I wonder again if Thorpe can play middie on the second line? One last point, lines were (including attack to mid) mixed and matched after almost every possession to give everyone ample run, so that obviously that effected the team offense rhythm and continuity.
SSDM starters are Grimm and Ciferi (who keeps looking better and better and is a little bigger), but the great news is Schwasnick is a stud athelete who moved to SSDM. He looked great and we now have big ACC SSDM in him and Gillis when we need them. Fusco and Firman both played LS a lot and looked great. They split time on the face wings and did well. Ciferi, Schwasnick and salcido did a good job on the wings too as Cuse and Paduda dominated both Navy and Towson at the X. One of them was a top ten returning faceoff guy too. That is why they are excited about using Williams a bit differently. But I would rather rest him more and use Cal like 20% of the time in big games so teams have to prepare for both guys, and Williams does not lose late game or OT faceoffs cause he is exhausted.
Mellen is a stud coming of the bus and looks like John Lade. No other of the freshmen D played so they are looking to keep their redshirt because the D does not need them this year. The greatest part of the scrimmage was Warren. He stopped every shot imaginable against Navy from door step stops to 15 yard rips to five yard hard dodges. He gave up one goal against 14 saves in three quarters. The D will have to carry the team until the attack jells. But I still have hope in the midfield just because there are so there are so many options and great competition.
Piroli hurt and DNP, so lost any chance to blend in but we need him to be good. Barber will start but did not look to be different than last year. Lane started at least one game and got tons of run , but that was all he did; run, dodge, run some more and then pass. Got by no one. But boy is he lean lost lots of weight and looks great, so there is hope. I was hoping Simmons and Weston would stand out but they looked exactly as they looked last year when getting runs on the second mid line team against first string D. Dejoe I think can be an answer on first or second line with the cannon and he ran around a bit. If he slows his shot and tries for accuracy maybe he is the surprise Cuse Sr. that takes a team from very good to great. Salcido looked very good and scored a goal on a nice dodge against navy first team and I think he scored or assisted on another (less mistakes and less forcing). McKinney played a lot but did nothing good or bad, so he may still be a year or two away. Ford and Carlin played little in these games when it mattered. Finally no freshmen middie played, so as of the fall the coaches did not think they could help the team enough to waste a redshirt. Not good news especially for Romano, but maybe he or another freshmen will figure it out and move in front of one of the upper classmen to play second line in the spring. Because of the above, I wonder again if Thorpe can play middie on the second line? One last point, lines were (including attack to mid) mixed and matched after almost every possession to give everyone ample run, so that obviously that effected the team offense rhythm and continuity.
SSDM starters are Grimm and Ciferi (who keeps looking better and better and is a little bigger), but the great news is Schwasnick is a stud athelete who moved to SSDM. He looked great and we now have big ACC SSDM in him and Gillis when we need them. Fusco and Firman both played LS a lot and looked great. They split time on the face wings and did well. Ciferi, Schwasnick and salcido did a good job on the wings too as Cuse and Paduda dominated both Navy and Towson at the X. One of them was a top ten returning faceoff guy too. That is why they are excited about using Williams a bit differently. But I would rather rest him more and use Cal like 20% of the time in big games so teams have to prepare for both guys, and Williams does not lose late game or OT faceoffs cause he is exhausted.
Mellen is a stud coming of the bus and looks like John Lade. No other of the freshmen D played so they are looking to keep their redshirt because the D does not need them this year. The greatest part of the scrimmage was Warren. He stopped every shot imaginable against Navy from door step stops to 15 yard rips to five yard hard dodges. He gave up one goal against 14 saves in three quarters. The D will have to carry the team until the attack jells. But I still have hope in the midfield just because there are so there are so many options and great competition.
JeremyCuse
Renowned lacrosse analyst
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 41,760
- Like
- 54,482
Great post, good points about the young attack playing in the scrimmages, you are correct there shirts are blown so that's a big factor to consider going into the season.
The fact that Shewell and Thorpe both looked good is very promising. I don't know if either projects a middie for this year though as there more put attack guys especially Thorpe. I think what you could see if the mid line struggles like most unfortunately think it will is to move Mariano to the mid line and bump Shewell and or Thorpe to attack. Perhaps Shewell could see some time at Middie but Thorpe to me is a pure attackmen I don't think he would be comfortable at middie. I think if all things were equal Desko would love to have Evans be the lead mid fielder and he could shift one of the new guys or Piroli to attack with Donahue and Mariano. Its clear though that Evans is much more comfortable (and a much better player) at attack then midfield and I think his numbers will go way up once he is playing attack only.
Despite the injury I expect Prioli to start at midfield or if they shift Mariano then at attack. He brings way to much experience and skill especially to a mid field line that has nothing but question marks at this point. I still think theres a good chance Romano plays this year, he's the most highly touted middie on the roster at this point and with none of the redshirt middies seeming making an impression in the fall he has a great opportunity these next few weeks. I think we see him in the early scrimmages.
I am very bullish on the SSDM this year. Lots of returning experience and as you noted some size with Gillis and the youngsters, I think we will be good there. Wings are still a big ? for me, I need to see it done when it counts. Wings have been bad for a while now. I do like the fact that they have Salcido out there, kid is a heck of an athlete. I pointed out last year that I though Ciferi was doing a good job at the wing in limited time, I think him and Salcido rotating in there would be great.
I am high on the D as well but I think at least one other Frosh will see time this year besides Mellen. Tait and McDermott have been to inconsistent in there careers here for me to think that Helmer or Chavez or the native American kid won't push them for PT.
Personally I thought Warren should have won the job last year but either way he's clearly the guy this year and I think the position is in great hands, only downside is that we only get him for one year.
MaxFischer
Walk On
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 190
- Like
- 348
Good post. Uses facts and not total conjecture. A breath of fresh air.
This is rebuilding year. Unless the defense is really, really good and Williams is truly dominant, hard to see this group any better than .500.
orange79
Internet Sleuth
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2011
- Messages
- 42,411
- Like
- 132,265
Well, THAT's not good.
MaxFischer
Walk On
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 190
- Like
- 348
Very difficult schedule. Lots of key games on the road. Would love to be wrong.
RoysRunts
All Conference
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2011
- Messages
- 2,624
- Like
- 909
No rebuild at SU just Reload
OrangeXtreme
The Mayor of Dewitt
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 231,207
- Like
- 419,870
You're expecting us to lose every single ACC game, Hopkins, and Cornell?
MaxFischer
Walk On
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 190
- Like
- 348
I could see us win a couple we aren't supposed to win, and drop a couple we should win. I'd expect an up and down team. Bound to happen in a transition year. Personally I hope many young players see the field this year.
jr4750
All American
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2011
- Messages
- 6,277
- Like
- 9,312
Agreed although I think Dylan will be awesome all year, and could carry us. Could be best player outside of Miles Jones and Cavanaugh at ND
ThruWayWest
Scout Team
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2014
- Messages
- 293
- Like
- 254
z`
What are these facts? This entire thread is total conjecture either way
I love it by the way. These combinations that have been very interesting. Great reads. A .500 record would not be the end of Desko. It seems to me that the crazed public thinks he is going to be forced out he responds by stringing together back to back championships or final game runs. It would shock me if we fell off that much in one season. Sure we lost a lot to graduation but when these players had run late in blow outs they looked capable to me. I also trust Kevin Donahue. The guy knows how to run an offense to fit the players on the roster.
Similar threads
