BIGGER QUESTION:

[sususpicious]

Now that the precedent has been set, could we be next? Thoughts?

 

[Whitey23]

Nothing to penalize us for. We don't know what really did or didn't happen.

 

[sususpicious]

Nothing to penalize us for. We don't know what really did or didn't happen.

I'm not an expert, but didn't the university do an investigation, and then not forward that information to the police? Could that be construed as some sort of coverup, which is what got Penn State in hot water? I'm just wondering?

 

[oldpinepoint]

I'm not an expert, but didn't the university do an investigation, and then not forward that information to the police? Could that be construed as some sort of coverup, which is what got Penn State in hot water? I'm just wondering?

The fact SU did an investigation shows there was no attempt to cover this up. THe investigation was just poorly done.

 

[Whitey23]

I'm not an expert, but didn't the university do an investigation, and then not forward that information to the police? Could that be construed as some sort of coverup, which is what got Penn State in hot water? I'm just wondering?

coverup for what? what happened?

 

[sususpicious]

coverup for what? what happened?

Hopefully nothing. I'm just wondering. I hope the NCAA sees it your way.

 

[jdubs30]

We're fine. (no pun intended)

 

[pfister1]

Nothing to penalize us for. We don't know what really did or didn't happen.

And so said all the PSU supporters. I realize that the cases are about as different as night and day, but once you set the precedent of the NCAA acting as the morality police you've got us on the precipice of a slippery slope that lots and lots of people would like to push us over.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I'm not an expert, but didn't the university do an investigation, and then not forward that information to the police? Could that be construed as some sort of coverup, which is what got Penn State in hot water? I'm just wondering?

You mean re-report it to the police. Since Davis had told SU that it had already reported it to the police (which it had) and they said it was beyond the statute of limitations - wouldn't the issue really be that they didn't double check Davis' statement with the police that it had already been reported?

 

[Zelda Zonk]

The fact SU did an investigation shows there was no attempt to cover this up. THe investigation was just poorly done.

Can't agree with you there. A poorly-conducted/botched/hamfisted/eyes closed 'investigation' is precisely the best way to cover something up, if you're certain allegations have/will be made. I'm not asserting there was any conspiracy or malfeasance on the part of the SU folks, but saying you checked things out and didn't find anything when you really don't want to find anything isn't really proof of anything. And, since the investigation didn't reveal as much as we know now, shouldn't we be critical of the 'effort?'

 

[Whitey23]

And so said all the PSU supporters. I realize that the cases are about as different as night and day, but once you set the precedent of the NCAA acting as the morality police you've got us on the precipice of a slippery slope that lots and lots of people would like to push us over.

But in PSU's case there is a man in jail guilty of 45 counts of sexual abuse as well as an internally funded investigation showing wrongdoing and a coverup. In Syracuse's case, Bernie is in Boca scouting Israeli basketball with what sounds like no charges on the horizon. They are going to drop sanctions on Syracuse for what, in their opinion, was an incomplete investigation into an action that hasn't been proven?

 

[cpatrocks]

Can the NCAA also penalize ESPN for half-ass reporting?

 

[pfister1]

But in PSU's case there is a man in jail guilty of 45 counts of sexual abuse as well as an internally funded investigation showing wrongdoing and a coverup. In Syracuse's case, Bernie is in Boca scouting Israeli basketball with what sounds like no charges on the horizon. They are going to drop sanctions on Syracuse for what, in their opinion, was an incomplete investigation into an action that hasn't been proven?

The point is there is no standard for what would warrant punishment. PSU didn't violate an NCAA regulation they just did something that the NCAA (and most everyone else) considered really really bad. That doesn't mean that everyone will be in agreement that the offense deserves punishment the next time they decide to swing the morality axe.

Maybe the NCAA decides that they don't like the fact that we had a drug policy that we chose not to enforce. Maybe more comes to light around the rumors of Laurie's activities as the team's Cougar in residence. Maybe they decide that the reason Bernie hasn't been prosecuted is that there is a statute of limitations that gets him off of the hook, but doesn't have to get in the way of them taking action.

 

[SBU72]

The point is there is no standard for what would warrant punishment. PSU didn't violate an NCAA regulation they just did something that the NCAA (and most everyone else) considered really really bad. That doesn't mean that everyone will be in agreement that the offense deserves punishment the next time they decide to swing the morality axe.

Maybe the NCAA decides that they don't like the fact that we had a drug policy that we chose not to enforce. Maybe more comes to light around the rumors of Laurie's activities as the team's Cougar in residence. Maybe they decide that the reason Bernie hasn't been prosecuted is that there is a statute of limitations that gets him off of the hook, but doesn't have to get in the way of them taking action.

If Fine's actions happened over a period of several years to a member of the extended SU team, doesn't NOT knowing show lack of instituational control? Your suppose to know what is happening on your campus after all.

 

[orangefan13]

Gloria has no chance getting money out of us through the ncaa.

 

[AlaskaSU]

The point is there is no standard for what would warrant punishment. PSU didn't violate an NCAA regulation they just did something that the NCAA (and most everyone else) considered really really bad. That doesn't mean that everyone will be in agreement that the offense deserves punishment the next time they decide to swing the morality axe.

Maybe the NCAA decides that they don't like the fact that we had a drug policy that we chose not to enforce. Maybe more comes to light around the rumors of Laurie's activities as the team's Cougar in residence. Maybe they decide that the reason Bernie hasn't been prosecuted is that there is a statute of limitations that gets him off of the hook, but doesn't have to get in the way of them taking action.

Exactly; the ncaa has about as much authority as Obama has to implement socialized medicine. In our feel good world, both Obama and the NCAA will get their way. However, this was not lack of institutional control. The Institution was involved with illegal behavior, failure to report sexual abuse and the Institution was in full control.

 

[rrlbees]

Exactly; the ncaa has about as much authority as Obama has to implement socialized medicine. In our feel good world, both Obama and the NCAA will get their way. However, this was not lack of institutional control. The Institution was involved with illegal behavior, failure to report sexual abuse and the Institution was in full control.

The NCAA stated which rules were broken. Why continue to ignore it?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[Zelda Zonk]

The point is there is no standard for what would warrant punishment. PSU didn't violate an NCAA regulation they just did something that the NCAA (and most everyone else) considered really really bad.

That's my issue with this whole thing. It wasn't "PSU" that did something wrong. It was a select few individuals who unfortunately acted as agents of PSU. This is a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It's unfortunate that those select individuals cannot be held criminally accountable without affecting the lives and livelihoods of that huge educational/econo-system that is Penn State University.

And, why isn't 'time served' a factor here? The fines and penalties might be appropriate in a vacuum, but in this context? PSU has suffered tremendously already, and over a significant period of time. That wouldn't end any time soon, even without these judgments.

I'm not arguing for leniency. This became an institutionalized set of offenses, over a long period. But, it was orchestrated by a few men, and one of those men is dead. Vacating his wins in a non-competition matter makes it seem "this decision is capricious and arbitrary."

 

[Bortukal]

The PSU sanctions stem from the failure of university officials to report an illegal, prosecutable act committed by a university employee on university property and witnessed by another university employee.

The case against Fine is born of unverifiable accusations, which the university sought in good faith to determine the factual nature of.

There's no comparison. No action to be taken.

Now the drug testing thing could be a different story.

 

[GoSU96]

That's my issue with this whole thing. It wasn't "PSU" that did something wrong. It was a select few individuals who unfortunately acted as agents of PSU. This is a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It's unfortunate that those select individuals cannot be held criminally accountable without affecting the lives and livelihoods of that huge educational/econo-system that is Penn State University.

And, why isn't 'time served' a factor here? The fines and penalties might be appropriate in a vacuum, but in this context? PSU has suffered tremendously already, and over a significant period of time. That wouldn't end any time soon, even without these judgments.

I'm not arguing for leniency. This became an institutionalized set of offenses, over a long period. But, it was orchestrated by a few men, and one of those men is dead. Vacating his wins in a non-competition matter makes it seem "this decision is capricious and arbitrary."

You had executive officers of the institution doing this.

It's not capricious or arbitary because the sanctions are part of a consent agreement. PSU signed up to this without contesting the NCAA's authority to do so.

 

[ithacat]

I must have missed the point where a GA witnessed child rape in a shower at SU and the HC, AD, and Chancellor refused to report the crime and thus began a more than decades long cover up to protect the basketball program. Meanwhile allowing further suspicious behavior to occur annually.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

[quote="I'm not arguing for leniency. This became an institutionalized set of offenses, over a long period. But, it was orchestrated by a few men, and one of those men is dead. Vacating his wins in a non-competition matter makes it seem "this decision is capricious and arbitrary."[/quote]

If you pin responsibility on the dead guy, why wouldn't you then take the only action you could, that is to restate his performance based on the knowledge of his role in the coverup? A coverup that surely benefited him on the field. Because he is dead does not abolish the past crimes.