Can anyone explain what has happened to Pitt basketball?

[UVA#1]

I thought when they were added from the Big East they would have been a great basketball addition, but apparently Jamie Dixon is having all kinds of trouble recruiting top talent to Pitt, which is keeping them in the middle of the ACC. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to recruit to Pittsburgh. Am I wrong about that? I have never been there, but it seems like inner city kids would love it.

 

[orangefog]

Pitt never excelled with top talent. The "great" Pitt teams were blue collar players that played tough defense. The Big East allowed this brand of tough defense which allowed Pitt to thrive during the regular season. But they always flamed out in the NCAA Tournament because they weren't allowed to play their brand of defense. They started getting a couple of high end recruits, but typically those recruits don't play the way that Pitt plays.

 

[UVA#1]

Pitt never excelled with top talent. The "great" Pitt teams were blue collar players that played tough defense. The Big East allowed this brand of tough defense which allowed Pitt to thrive during the regular season. But they always flamed out in the NCAA Tournament because they weren't allowed to play their brand of defense. They started getting a couple of high end recruits, but typically those recruits don't play the way that Pitt plays.

That sounds a lot like the way Virginia has been able to rise, however, they didn't get to be as good until they started recruiting better offensive players like Justin Anderson. Defense will always be Bennet's strength, but you can't get to the final four without better offensive players, which has been UVa's problem. Syracuse, on the other hand, as we all know, has had fantastic success recruiting high end talent, and when they play together, that zone is the best defense in the nation without a doubt.

 

[Scotch]

I thought when they were added from the Big East they would have been a great basketball addition, but apparently Jamie Dixon is having all kinds of trouble recruiting top talent to Pitt, which is keeping them in the middle of the ACC. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to recruit to Pittsburgh. Am I wrong about that? I have never been there, but it seems like inner city kids would love it.

One thing to consider in this matter, is that Jamie Dixon is a douche. That's their biggest recruiting hurdle.

 

[orangefog]

One thing to consider in this matter, is that Jamie Dixon is a douche. That's their biggest recruiting hurdle.

I agree, and they play ugly basketball that skilled basketball players don't want to play.

 

[Brooky03]

Pitt

 

[Toga]

One thing to consider in this matter, is that Jamie Dixon is a douche. That's their biggest recruiting hurdle.

Dixon on the basketball side and this douche on the football side.

 

[jordoo]

Agreed with most takes here. I recall many here wondering how Pitt would do with the transition to ACC hoops. It was a consensus opinion that Dixon would have to adjust in both his recruiting and defensive style to have top 3rd type of success. It seems recruiting has taken a huge hit and if you read the Pitt board there is some grumbling that Dixon has completely given up on really going after top talent because he doesn't want to deal with the hassle or lose kids after a couple seasons. He did get a few highly rated kids (Birch) then didn't play them and they transferred. As far as defense its been a combination of being in the ACC and the NCAA at least attempting to stop allowing the defense to hinder the movement of players both on and off the ball. Unfortunately for Pitt hindering the movement of offensive players is exactly what their defense is based on. When you cannot play lock down defense and do not posses the offensive talent to outscore teams you aren't going to be a major player.

BTW this decline started about 2/3 seasons before they left the BE.

 

[OttoMets]

Aside from the 2009 team with Sam Young, Pittsburgh's post-2001 winning tradition hasn't been the result of talent. They were a paper tiger and built up a lot of regular-season wins due to the Big East's infatuation with physical play.

 

[orangefog]

I have much more respect for the late 80's early 90's Pitt teams with Jerome Lane, Sean Miller, Jason Matthews, Bobby Martin, Charles Smith, Rod Brookin and Darrel Porter. Those teams were good.

 

[Cowtown]

Aside from the 2009 team with Sam Young, Pittsburgh's post-2001 winning tradition hasn't been the result of talent. They were a paper tiger and built up a lot of regular-season wins due to the Big East's infatuation with physical play.

Indeed, the Krauser, Troutman & Taft era may have been fun for the hometown fans because they won games (read: BE rock fights), but it wasn't real basketball and it disguised the overall trend of that style of play.

 

[Toga]

Maybe he will ride off into the sunset with Doris Burke.

 

[reedny]

Pitt

Pitt never excelled with top talent. The "great" Pitt teams were blue collar players that played tough defense. The Big East allowed this brand of tough defense which allowed Pitt to thrive during the regular season. But they always flamed out in the NCAA Tournament because they weren't allowed to play their brand of defense. They started getting a couple of high end recruits, but typically those recruits don't play the way that Pitt plays.

I detest Pitt as much as anyone, but you know what .. looking at their rosters the last few years .. they did have talent. I agree they don't recruit on the same level we do .. but looking at their recent teams, they have had size inside and good guards. Dixon knows the ins and outs of the zone as well as any coach. And his kids play their as*es off. Do I hate their style? Of course. Do they get away with murder on defense? Absolutely. And I agree with the assessment that their NCAA performances have suffered because they can't run their clutch-and-grab nonsense with competent officials working the game.

But look at the guys they've had the last few years. In 2012-13, for example, they had Adams (7'0 now in the NBA) and Zana inside, with big combo guard/SF/s who could shoot (Woodall, Wright, Patterson). That year we lost by 10 in Pitt, although our defense was so good towards the end of that year (FF) that we beat Pitt easily in the BET. But it's not like that Pitt team didn't have talent.

Not much different with their 2013-14 team. They had Michael Young and Artis as forwards, Zana inside, and Jones, Patterson and Robinson outside (big, versatile combo players who could drive or shoot). That's been Dixon's Kryptonite against the zone .. dogged defense, rebounding and enough inside/outside scoring to prevent JB from packing in the zone.

Last year in the Dome (which was an epic Pitt-SU dog fight), I think we matched up a little better personnel-wise. They had no one to stop Rakim (20/12) inside, and Pitt definitely felt the loss of Zana and Adams, as they got outworked on the glass with Uchego and Young. Their forwards were still good (Artis and Young went for 30) and Jones killed us from outside. I think they got lucky with some amazingly poor calls towards the end of the game (along with assault and battery on Tyler Roberson). But the pattern's there ... pretty good players and the same strategy over and over.

 

[UVA#1]

I detest Pitt as much as anyone, but you know what .. looking at their rosters the last few years .. they did have talent. I agree they don't recruit on the same level we do .. but looking at their recent teams, they have had size inside and good guards. Dixon knows the ins and outs of the zone as well as any coach. And his kids play their as*es off. Do I hate their style? Of course. Do they get away with murder on defense? Absolutely. And I agree with the assessment that their NCAA performances have suffered because they can't run their clutch-and-grab nonsense with competent officials working the game.

But look at the guys they've had the last few years. In 2012-13, for example, they had Adams (7'0 now in the NBA) and Zana inside, with big combo guard/SF/s who could shoot (Woodall, Wright, Patterson). That year we lost by 10 in Pitt, although our defense was so good towards the end of that year (FF) that we beat Pitt easily in the BET. But it's not like that Pitt team didn't have talent.

Not much different with their 2013-14 team. They had Michael Young and Artis as forwards, Zana inside, and Jones, Patterson and Robinson outside (big, versatile combo players who could drive or shoot). That's been Dixon's Kryptonite against the zone .. dogged defense, rebounding and enough inside/outside scoring to prevent JB from packing in the zone.

Last year in the Dome (which was an epic Pitt-SU dog fight), I think we matched up a little better personnel-wise. They had no one to stop Rakim (20/12) inside, and Pitt definitely felt the loss of Zana and Adams, as they got outworked on the glass with Uchego and Young. Their forwards were still good (Artis and Young went for 30) and Jones killed us from outside. I think they got lucky with some amazingly poor calls towards the end of the game (along with assault and battery on Tyler Roberson). But the pattern's there ... pretty good players and the same strategy over and over.

Is Jamie Dixon really as big of an a**hole is person as he is during the games? Sometimes coaches become completely different people in competitive situations. I just don't know Dixon and Pitt well enough to know if he is really this big of a jerk all the time. If so, recruiting could be difficult with his attitude.

 

[Brooky03]

Is Jamie Dixon really as big of an a**hole is person as he is during the games? Sometimes coaches become completely different people in competitive situations. I just don't know Dixon and Pitt well enough to know if he is really this big of a jerk all the time. If so, recruiting could be difficult with his attitude.

From all reports I've heard, yes, he's as big a off the court as on. I think a couple people who post here have met him in person.

 

[reedny]

Is Jamie Dixon really as big of an a**hole is person as he is during the games? Sometimes coaches become completely different people in competitive situations. I just don't know Dixon and Pitt well enough to know if he is really this big of a jerk all the time. If so, recruiting could be difficult with his attitude.

Don't know. I'd defer to Brooky03 on this one. By reputation, he's personality-challenged for sure.

 

[orangefog]

Don't know. I'd defer to Brooky03 on this one. By reputation, he's personality-challenged for sure.

His natural look is that just smelled a fart face.

 

[reedny]

His natural look is that just smelled a fart face.

His personal habits make JB look like a picnic. He paces incessantly, his hair is like a poor-mans pomade, and I can't believe there's any skin left on his lips.

 

[UVA#1]

Now that is funny!

His natural look is that just smelled a fart face.

 

[UVA#1]

His personal habits make JB look like a picnic. He paces incessantly, his hair is like a poor-mans pomade, and I can't believe there's any skin left on his lips.

He does have the worst chapped lips I've ever seen, and man just be bald and accept it because that come over looks horrible and people laugh at you behind your back. Could you imagine what his hair looks like in the morning when he gets up? Yeesh

 

[HoustonCuse]

I detest Pitt as much as anyone, but you know what .. looking at their rosters the last few years .. they did have talent. I agree they don't recruit on the same level we do .. but looking at their recent teams, they have had size inside and good guards. Dixon knows the ins and outs of the zone as well as any coach. And his kids play their as*es off. Do I hate their style? Of course. Do they get away with murder on defense? Absolutely. And I agree with the assessment that their NCAA performances have suffered because they can't run their clutch-and-grab nonsense with competent officials working the game.

But look at the guys they've had the last few years. In 2012-13, for example, they had Adams (7'0 now in the NBA) and Zana inside, with big combo guard/SF/s who could shoot (Woodall, Wright, Patterson). That year we lost by 10 in Pitt, although our defense was so good towards the end of that year (FF) that we beat Pitt easily in the BET. But it's not like that Pitt team didn't have talent.

Not much different with their 2013-14 team. They had Michael Young and Artis as forwards, Zana inside, and Jones, Patterson and Robinson outside (big, versatile combo players who could drive or shoot). That's been Dixon's Kryptonite against the zone .. dogged defense, rebounding and enough inside/outside scoring to prevent JB from packing in the zone.

Last year in the Dome (which was an epic Pitt-SU dog fight), I think we matched up a little better personnel-wise. They had no one to stop Rakim (20/12) inside, and Pitt definitely felt the loss of Zana and Adams, as they got outworked on the glass with Uchego and Young. Their forwards were still good (Artis and Young went for 30) and Jones killed us from outside. I think they got lucky with some amazingly poor calls towards the end of the game (along with assault and battery on Tyler Roberson). But the pattern's there ... pretty good players and the same strategy over and over.

Look, I get that you are trying to leave yourself some outs, but you are drifting awfully close to Pitt lover territory here. When I start my MacCarthy style purge of Pitt lovers, you are going to be looked into. With vigor.

 

[HOFCeluck]

2014 was the first year of the Dixon era that his team beat a higher seeded team in the tournament.

And people say JB isn't a good tournament coach...

 

[Col. Bleep]

That sounds a lot like the way Virginia has been able to rise...

There's a big difference.
UVA under Bennet is just rock solid fundamentally on both ends of the court.
Pitt was like playing a team full of the Bruise Brothers.
It worked well for them for a long time until they faced refs who realize there's a difference between incidental contact and a mugging.
(Although it was always enjoyable seeing them bang G-town around).

Pitt has been used to having 4 year players.
(And I think Sean Miller played the point for about 8 years).
It doesn't work that way any more and Pitt hasn't really adapted.

 

[reedny]

He does have the worst chapped lips I've ever seen, and man just be bald and accept it because that come over looks horrible and people laugh at you behind your back. Could you imagine what his hair looks like in the morning when he gets up? Yeesh

No thanks .. I'll pass on that visual ..

 

[reedny]

Look, I get that you are trying to leave yourself some outs, but you are drifting awfully close to Pitt lover territory here. When I start my MacCarthy style purge of Pitt lovers, you are going to be looked into. With vigor.

Lol, I hate them. No worries. I was at the last game and had to be quieted down several times as Pitt got away with murder and mayhem. It was a travesty .. and I was one of the most vociferous "venters" on this board afterwards. TR looked like he'd been fighting Bones Jones for 5 rounds.

I'm simply pointing out the obvious: that they have had an effective strategy and personnel to throw against the zone. Doesn't mean I like them. It means we need to counterattack ... with big guards who can defend and size inside. Help is on the way.