Carmelo & CJ in game similarity

[JDubbin]

I've noticed a similarity with both CJ and Carmelo I wanted to bring to the table... I think it's interesting at least. It's been mentioned in the last few Knicks games (including the 62 pointer) that Carmelo is almost impossible to guard when he shoots without putting the ball on the floor. Specifically, when he faces up and jab steps (no dribble) to create space, he is pure. I see the same trend with CJ in game, although I do not have numbers to back it up and it is just an observation. It feels like, when CJ faces up, jab steps without a dribble to create space and goes straight up for the J, he never misses! When CJ puts the ball on the floor, his shooting percentage seems to dip... I far less confident it's going in. Don't get me wrong, I think Melo is one of the best offensive players in the world and absolutely can attack off the bounce, CJ as well to a lesser extent... but when both of them go straight up without dribbling I am mentally running back on defense because I know it's going down. Thoughts? Disagreements? Discuss!

 

[mayselc]

Melo has the handle and moves to get all the way to the rim. CJ is much more likely to finish with a floater or a short jumper. That's why Melo will always have a better % and draw more fouls.

 

[SUFan44]

Um... no. Love them both, but not even close.

 

[jekelish]

I think people are missing the point of the post. It's not comparing CJ and Melo as players, just one aspect of their offensive game.

 

[JDubbin]

I think people are missing the point of the post. It's not comparing CJ and Melo as players, just one aspect of their offensive game.

Correct! You have garnered a like, sir. For being a gentleman and a scholar.

 

[TheCusian]

I think people are missing the point of the post. It's not comparing CJ and Melo as players, just one aspect of their offensive game.

JB runs the same sets for CJ too. Mid range jumper and jab step is similar as well.

CJ lacks the strength and handle to turn that jab step into a blow by, like Carmelo.

But honestly - 20% of Melo's game is still damn good.

 

[SUFan44]

I think people are missing the point of the post. It's not comparing CJ and Melo as players, just one aspect of their offensive game.

I see what he's saying, and yes they both have jab steps. But CJ's release is much slower, and his show-making percentage is not even close to Melo's.

CJ Fair misses a lot. He's shooting 40% against ACC opponents. As I said, this is not to rip CJ - I like him a lot. But I'm not confident every time he goes up he's going to make it.

 

[CusefanATL]

JB runs the same sets for CJ too. Mid range jumper and jab step is similar as well.

CJ lacks the strength and handle to turn that jab step into a blow by, like Carmelo.

But honestly - 20% of Melo's game is still damn good.

That blow by jab step was the best move college basketball has seen since Iverson's crossover. It was unstoppable. It single handily kept us in the ND game (before gmacs heroics) and plenty of others.

 

[Townie72]

I think people are missing the point of the post. It's not comparing CJ and Melo as players, just one aspect of their offensive game.

This is the perfect example of why its almost impossible to make a nuanced observation on here.

People either don't read, don't understand or --- more often --- answer the question they wish had been asked. It's akin to the political talk shows on Sunday morning.

 

[jimsonjunction]

I agree with the OP. I start to drool when defenders leave too much space, especially on the baseline.

 

[TheCusian]

I see what he's saying, and yes they both have jab steps. But CJ's release is much slower, and his show-making percentage is not even close to Melo's. CJ Fair misses a lot. He's shooting 40% against ACC opponents. As I said, this is not to rip CJ - I like him a lot. But I'm not confident every time he goes up he's going to make it.

It's not so much comparing actual production or effectiveness to Carmelo (you can't). The question is: does he hit enough of them to make it worth running. And we have 3.5 seasons to believe in CJ when he gets the ball in that position.

That JB runs plays to get him in that position should tell you all you need to know.

 

[jekelish]

I see what he's saying, and yes they both have jab steps. But CJ's release is much slower, and his show-making percentage is not even close to Melo's.

CJ Fair misses a lot. He's shooting 40% against ACC opponents. As I said, this is not to rip CJ - I like him a lot. But I'm not confident every time he goes up he's going to make it.

I still don't think you are. He's not saying that CJ is as good at hitting the shot as Melo, or that his release is as quick. He's simply noting that Melo and CJ both shoot better when they don't have to put the ball on the floor. It has nothing to do with a jab step or a release or anything else.

 

[jekelish]

Correct! You have garnered a like, sir. For being a gentleman and a scholar.

I've got thousands of posts that should have tipped you off I'm neither, but I appreciate the sentiment.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Why doesn't Cooney try to create his own space? He would be more consistent if he was able to shoot when he wanted. Too much shooting on the run.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I've noticed a similarity with both CJ and Carmelo I wanted to bring to the table... I think it's interesting at least. It's been mentioned in the last few Knicks games (including the 62 pointer) that Carmelo is almost impossible to guard when he shoots without putting the ball on the floor. Specifically, when he faces up and jab steps (no dribble) to create space, he is pure. I see the same trend with CJ in game, although I do not have numbers to back it up and it is just an observation. It feels like, when CJ faces up, jab steps without a dribble to create space and goes straight up for the J, he never misses! When CJ puts the ball on the floor, his shooting percentage seems to dip... I far less confident it's going in. Don't get me wrong, I think Melo is one of the best offensive players in the world and absolutely can attack off the bounce, CJ as well to a lesser extent... but when both of them go straight up without dribbling I am mentally running back on defense because I know it's going down. Thoughts? Disagreements? Discuss!

interesting to say the least.

the problem i have with fair is he is not the 100% go to guy to get a bucket. if thats his shot, if thats his 'move' then 1, id like to see him do it more often. 2, id like to see him do it to stop a run or late in games & 3) if teams figure out how to stop it, whats his next $ move.

kind of late in a career to get all that going, but i guess thats why hes still here and not in the league.

great college player, great Orangeman...who hopefully wins his last game.

 

[SUFan44]

I still don't think you are. He's not saying that CJ is as good at hitting the shot as Melo, or that his release is as quick. He's simply noting that Melo and CJ both shoot better when they don't have to put the ball on the floor. It has nothing to do with a jab step or a release or anything else.

"It feels like, when CJ faces up, jab steps without a dribble to create space and goes straight up for the J, he never misses!"

"...but when both of them go straight up without dribbling I am mentally running back on defense because I know it's going down."

 

[Townie72]

Why doesn't Cooney try to create his own space? He would be more consistent if he was able to shoot when he wanted. Too much shooting on the run.

Defenders chase Cooney and crowd him when he stops. If the defender has been screened off, than TC has an open shot.

But when they aren't screened off, he's not quick enough to go around them. So they can crowd him taking away his shot.